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Thread: A grand idea.

  1. #1
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    Default A grand idea.

    Player made quests. Make it happen turbine.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Is that Teh_Troll?

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    I thought this was sarcasm at first.

    Then I started to write something about monkeys with typewriters and having to drudge through tons of garbage for a possible gem here and there.

    And then I thought, "Well, could it really be any worse than some of the recent updates?"

    Then I thought some of the more vocal suggestions and decided that on the whole, yes. It probably could.



    Also, the last thing DDO needs to be is whatever the latest flashy MMO is.

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    It's too late for player-made dungeons. If they wanted to do that, they would need to have done it a long time ago, like when the game was initially being developed. It's literally impossible, barring a miracle, for something that massive to be added to DDO.

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    What i can think of similar to what the op is saying would be the foundry system of neverwinter mmorpg. Interesting but the issue will be the loot.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
    What i can think of similar to what the op is saying would be the foundry system of neverwinter mmorpg. Interesting but the issue will be the loot.
    Start quest, kill boss, get 2m xp.

    New destiny, rinse/repeat.

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    I can imagine it being possible, but then in the sense of releasing a dungeon simulator where players can send in the map to turbine. But like previously stated the chance of that is pretty low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirun View Post
    It's too late for player-made dungeons. If they wanted to do that, they would need to have done it a long time ago, like when the game was initially being developed. It's literally impossible, barring a miracle, for something that massive to be added to DDO.
    Hi this isn't true. They may deem it not worth doing (I believe they already said in the past that it would be a big undertaking, but that they're not interested in that direction). It would take resources certainly to polish up their editing tools. In house developer tools for mapping quests are often made more user friendly (especially over years of tweaks) because "mappers" or quest designers are generally creative types who don't have coding chops or other game creation experience. In the industry many a Beta tester (Q/A) often/usually just gamers with no coding ability "gruaduates" to helping/making quests or maps. And map design has often been an entry level position. In every case an efficient UI is desirable to make map/quest creation more productive.

    They have "drop down picker" scripting tools, many canned prefab scripts/complex world objects/textures sets, and a 3d WYSIWYG map editing/object placement editing application with typical mesh manipulation tools. This PROBABLY runs in the actual games 3d Engine or a stripped down version of it. It's also obvious from the quests that they have whole "brush" sets that reuse already made mesh/map areas, that they just plunk down and align. These tools are poorly documented (meaning they would need to polish that up) have some screwy proprietary non standard UI/Keyboard shortcut klunkyness and long standing known bugs that the mappers are used to that need to be polished up. Probably some really clunky batch editing and command line map compiling functions. Along with that the scripting system they use for quest events and triggers would need a dumbed down version full of canned prefabs/archetypes.

    They would then need to come up with a publishing system that allowed creative types to upload their quests, and certain servers to run player made content, and make in game hooks to allow access to these quests. All of this costs resources and developer time, but "impossible" it's not. Bethesda regularly released MILDLY polished versions of their world creation tools for Morrowind/Oblivion etc. they are usually buggy and are not for the inexperienced, but to say it's impossible to do is just not true.

    Yes you will limit your audience of quest makers by releasing really raw tools with hard to figure out commands no documentation and a poor UI, and having bare bones UI/uploading (for example something as basic as an FTP upload directly into a UGC folder) will also cull some of the less computer savvy would be map makers. But it can be argued that if basic low level functions (like needing to know how to use FTP, or what "extrude" means in 3d lingo) turns off the potential map maker, they might not have made very interesting quests anyway.

    Then at this point with content uploaded presumably to a "quarantine" alpha/beta area, to be given the twice over by one or two Turbine Q/A people, to filter out any obvious/egregious exploit quests, you let the community vet new UGC with a bare bones "flagging/rating" functionality and keep the content's "in game" profile low, until some of the content is deemed pretty darned cool, and put in the elevated visibility area.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Start quest, kill boss, get 2m xp.

    New destiny, rinse/repeat.
    That's too much work, it would be more like the monastery of the scorpion boss fight where you have to solve a puzzle to kill the boss, except there would be one button and the boss is in a cage.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    That's too much work, it would be more like the monastery of the scorpion boss fight where you have to solve a puzzle to kill the boss, except there would be one button and the boss is in a cage.
    Don't be silly. That implies walking to a button. We spawn in freefall, landing on the button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    That's too much work, it would be more like the monastery of the scorpion boss fight where you have to solve a puzzle to kill the boss, except there would be one button and the boss is in a cage.
    Simple solution to this problem. To get upload privliges you have to be VIP or pay a fee, to keep upload privileges you can't have more than X number of flags on submissions. To get out of the "low visibility area" (quarantine) you have to have some positive ratings and have your quest looked over by a Q/A person.

    Of course it's also stupidly easy to simply cap XP/min... 1000 per minute max, no matter what, based on a real timer. Hah I put 100k XP in their and a secret door, hole in the floor that lets me get to the end in 30 seconds... guess what you got 500XP dumdum. items are simple, you have a list of the items contained in the quest, that can't be hidden, it only takes looking it over. Of course it's also trivial to value items based on enhancement/enchantment level... hey a 21 enchantment level weapon in a 1st level quest... You don't even need a warm body to do this, a visual basic script done by a first week programming student can cull these out.

    NWN existed as a smash hit multiplayer RPG on almost entirely UGC... was their the occasional dumdum who had no clue how pointless and stupid it is to make such quests? Absolutely... did they tend to go away bored after a few tries at making junk no one but other stupids wanted to play? also yes absolutely. What was left was D&D content that both had the closest resemblance to actual D&D play of any CRPG ever, and was filled with massive creative persistent worlds with larger group interaction and more multiplayer/social interaction than DDO can ever dream of. More re-playability because they were adding new stuff constantly, and better content in many cases than the Devs made.

    The problem is you guys are taking an ineptly designed game that is D&D only in name, and judging UGC based on some rather poorly implimented and not thought out or properly vetted junk quests uploaded by people who aren't interested in playing the game. And played by people who either didn't care if they ruined the game or could care less because it's a pretty lame game, or they were too dum to realize that getting everything instantly leaves you with nothing to do, and a hollow "what did I do that for" feeling.
    Last edited by IronClan; 10-05-2013 at 12:09 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  12. #12
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    No it's a truly horrible idea that would take to much work to even give us something worthless they use to many custom tools for this to ever work!

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Considering the quality of quests people generally make, i dont think this would be a good idea, even though id love to make a quest for ddo (not saying id make a good one, i just would like making one)
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

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    Awww, come on guys, you're missing out on the big picture here! With such a massive undertaking, just think of all the wonderful new hand crafted bugs to be introduced!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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    Random quests would be a better idea. You'd never know what would be waiting for you in the dungeon. But obviously that would require a whole new game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Is that Teh_Troll?
    Nope, though it's a reasonable assumption that I might get put in timeout at any moment.

    Player-made quest from my understanding is the only good thing in Neverwinter, might be night to see here but I believe it's impossible with the current engine.

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    I shudder to think of the coding nightmare that implementing this suggestion would generate. I envision it as if you were placing a heavy object on top of a loosely built house of cards... I pity the fools they'd dupe into coding it.


    Having said that, it'd be fun to play with.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nope, though it's a reasonable assumption that I might get put in timeout at any moment.

    Player-made quest from my understanding is the only good thing in Neverwinter, might be night to see here but I believe it's impossible with the current engine.
    They mostly blow. And many have to be watched for exploits (xp/min, loot hijinks).

    They have a mostly bland 4e scaling system in place now where **** can just be spawned at whatever level you are.

    While the combat LOOKS interactive, it's mostly lame. I checked it out, but back here where I can still enjoy parts of the game in a big sense even if ED grinding has burned a hole in my psyche.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  19. #19
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Nope, though it's a reasonable assumption that I might get put in timeout at any moment.

    Player-made quest from my understanding is the only good thing in Neverwinter, might be night to see here but I believe it's impossible with the current engine.
    It was also the source of several exploits that cryptic couldn't really fix for xp farmers so they pulled a Turbine and hit the xp for it with a nerf nuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Awww, come on guys, you're missing out on the big picture here! With such a massive undertaking, just think of all the wonderful new hand crafted bugs to be introduced!
    Early and often if it's introduced. I know I'd sign up for a third account to write cheat maps then run them like crazy on my main account till I have my mules overflowing with everything I could possibly want.

    This is why it should never happen.

  20. #20
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    Default Yes

    all I really want from this game is more quests to run. Or more raids. Preferably both.

    This would be a good way to bring in more content. it doesn't seem reasonable that it would be impossible. Difficult, or possibly very difficult, but not impossible.

    Also seems reasonable that it could be controlled to prevent exploits.

    I'd rather see this than anything else, really.

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