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  1. #1
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    Default buff Wraith form

    imo wraith form is the coolest looking thing in ddo, but not many pm use once they get lich. there are things that can make wraith form a lot more useful but still would not take the fire power spot light from lich.

    here is my idea:

    instead of (+20 bonus to the Move Silently/Balance skills and Ghost Touch)

    give (knock down immunity)


    for Improved Shrouding:

    instead of (+2 Dexterity and + 10% Miss Chance)

    give (+5% miss chance and +10% moment speed)



    its stupid to see wraith get knockdown by things like grease when they not even touching the ground. the in game monster wraith cant be knock down at all. these change will make wraith a lot more useful going in and out of bad places but still should do most of the fighting to lich form.
    Last edited by cccddd; 10-04-2013 at 05:09 AM.

  2. #2
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    No Don't touch wraith form its perfect the way it is I use all those abilities your trying to change

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    Unless the want to ADD knockdown immunity w/o changing anything else...thats ok
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #3
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Wraith form is fine the way it is.

  4. #4
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    If they wanted to add knockdown immunity, I'd be ok with that, maybe an enhancement that does such.

    They should NEVER nerf an ability that isn't overpowered. It only makes people angry without actually accomplishing anything balancing. It's all negative with no upsides.

    You might not like that move silently bonus but to suggest they just take it away without considering that others might actually use it would be a very, very poor design decision. Designers that make decisions like this will quickly find that players lose trust in the system long term and for an MMO long term trust and stability is a key element to player retention. If unnecessary changes can occur at any time for no reason whatsoever, why invest any time at all in your character? Why grind months for a +1 when they can strip away +20 in a heartbeat for no reason and with no reason ever given. You are left to think that devs use a dartboard when making changes to the game.

    Now I can understand changes that involve fixing broken abilities and nerfing overpowered ones, but I've never understood "change for the sake of change" abilities.

    What you want might be accomplished better simply by adding another similar but different shroud. Might I suggest Shroud of the Ghost or Shroud of the Spectre?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    No Don't touch wraith form its perfect the way it is I use all those abilities your trying to change

    100% /NOT signed

    Unless the want to ADD knockdown immunity w/o changing anything else...thats ok

    w/o changing anything else? you wouldt even need the +20 balence anymore if knockdown immunity is added.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    ... If unnecessary changes can occur at any time for no reason whatsoever, why invest any time at all in your character? Why grind months for a +1 when they can strip away +20 in a heartbeat for no reason and with no reason ever given.....
    Yup, i mean, if they ever did something like that in DDO the player base would be up in arms!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If they wanted to add knockdown immunity, I'd be ok with that, maybe an enhancement that does such.

    They should NEVER nerf an ability that isn't overpowered. It only makes people angry without actually accomplishing anything balancing. It's all negative with no upsides.

    You might not like that move silently bonus but to suggest they just take it away without considering that others might actually use it would be a very, very poor design decision. Designers that make decisions like this will quickly find that players lose trust in the system long term and for an MMO long term trust and stability is a key element to player retention. If unnecessary changes can occur at any time for no reason whatsoever, why invest any time at all in your character? Why grind months for a +1 when they can strip away +20 in a heartbeat for no reason and with no reason ever given. You are left to think that devs use a dartboard when making changes to the game.

    Now I can understand changes that involve fixing broken abilities and nerfing overpowered ones, but I've never understood "change for the sake of change" abilities.

    What you want might be accomplished better simply by adding another similar but different shroud. Might I suggest Shroud of the Ghost or Shroud of the Spectre?
    its not like i want nerf it, i want to buff it lol. its just i dont think they will add knockdown immunity without "balancing" it somehow. even for those who like the +20 move silently bonus would take knockdown immunity in a trade no? anyway i just thought it would make seance for wrath to have knockdown immunity and move faster thats all.

  8. #8
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    w/o changing anything else? you wouldt even need the +20 balence anymore if knockdown immunity is added.
    Knockdown immunity does not cover everything that balance is used for. ie. The Titan raid Knockdown immunity does diddly.

    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    even for those who like the +20 move silently bonus would take knockdown immunity in a trade no?
    No I wouldn't take it in trade I LOVE that they get +20 move silently mix that with an at-level MS item and the Invis spell and you've got a great sneaker...even better if your a Wiz18/Rogue2 and can actually put points into move silently.

    Also I see no lore reason for wraiths to move faster nor nerf the incorporeal ability from improved shrouding
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-04-2013 at 08:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Knockdown immunity does not cover everything that balance is used for. ie. The Titan raid Knockdown immunity does diddly.
    it covers it enough to make it pretty useless.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Also I see no lore reason for wraiths to move faster nor nerf the incorporeal ability from improved shrouding
    in pnp wraiths have 60 ft. fly speed and improved initiative, the monster wraiths also moves really fast so that very good lore reason for wraiths to move faster. and i already said i dont really wish ANY nerf, just didt think it will get any buff without some kind of proposed traded off.

  11. #11
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    I'll say that I was always rather surprised at Wratih form's lack of both faster movement and knockdown immunity. It really should have at least one of these, although I agree that it shouldn't lose the other stuff it has. Trading Balance for Knockdown immunity seems like a good trade; however, and makes more sense thematically.
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  12. #12
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    Wraith is pretty spot-on the way it is.

    Yes, it would be nice thematically if Wraith were immune to knockdown. Also would be nice if it could pass through enemies. Speed boost would be technically correct as well. But honestly, any one of those things would make it beyond uber.

    Vampire is the one that needs buffing. Well, not even buffing really... What it needs is any sort of purpose at all.

  13. #13
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I’m with the people who say “don’t touch Wraith form.” As it is, it is very powerful and making it even more powerful will unbalance the system. Even now, Wraith is the target for many PM-based melee toons as of the numerous advantages it presents.

    And knockdown immunity? Worthless.

    Movement increases can easily be gotten by gear, and one of the big selling points on Wraith form is that 10% miss chance. Cripes, with the post U19 loot, you’d have to do some real searching to NOT find a +30% striding item – I’m getting +20% striding items as random loot down around level 6 and 7. You knock that down the miss chance percentage, and die-hards of this game will most likely be looking to hang your scalp on their wall (figuratively speaking, of course).

    It doesn’t need any modification at all.

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