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  1. #21
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    DDO can be very intimidating at first and turbine seems to be intent on chasing away new players but if you stick around it can be a very rewarding experience (When you aren't cursing the bugs that is.)

    Try to explore the harbour and houses and collect all the quests that you can (Talk to the yellow cups on the map.). That way you can at least have the quests in your journal which is a starting point. Also, don't be scared of telling people you are new. Most people are patient and will be happy to help. The people that don't aren't worth bother.

    I do think that Turbine needs to re-evaluate a lot of the game play if they are serious about attracting and retaining new players.

    Here is the list of things I'd change to encourage a more social, newbie friendly experience:

    1. Get rid of the party penalty for deaths.
    2. Add an option to teleport to a questgiver if an LFM is for a particular quest.
    3. Get rid of bravery bonuses and increase the XP granted by optional quest objectives.

    1. There is no party penalty for deaths. There is a bonus for flawless victory.
    2. Interesting Idea to teleport to giver and not quest, as I usually see mentioned. Don't know how much
    this would help because a lot of quest are not near the quest giver (VAle and Amrath quests are examples off
    top of my head)
    3. I disagree with this. BB is great of TR's and first lifer's don't really need it anyway. Boost in XP for
    optionals is not something I would argue against.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    I do think that Turbine needs to re-evaluate a lot of the game play if they are serious about attracting and retaining new players.
    I would prefer Turbine attracts good players. Not players who will make a big deal out of having to read a map.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-04-2013 at 02:46 AM. Reason: Removed the insults
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    1. There is no party penalty for deaths. There is a bonus for flawless victory.
    This amounts to the same thing. If one person dies the whole party gets less XP than they would have otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    2. Interesting Idea to teleport to giver and not quest, as I usually see mentioned. Don't know how much
    this would help because a lot of quest are not near the quest giver (VAle and Amrath quests are examples off
    top of my head)
    I think that teleporting to the quest giver is a nice compromise. The quest giver should tell you where the quest is. As for quests in wilderness areas, I'm not sure that I like the idea of teleporting to a quest in a Wilderness area. It doesn't feel right to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    3. I disagree with this. BB is great of TR's and first lifer's don't really need it anyway. Boost in XP for
    optionals is not something I would argue against.
    The only reason you need BB for TRs is because of the ridiculous XP required at 3rd live TR. That should be lowered. The current problem is that we have a game with a smallish population and the current TR/BB situation means that Turbine have fragmented their player base into newer players/first lifers and people who TR. This really is an issue. Maybe Turbine should add more extreme challenge optionals (THink of Interupting the ritual or the Doomsphere in Fleshmaker's.) that are real challenges that would cause parties with TR players to try them and inexperienced parties could avoid them. This could make up the XP deficit of getting rid of BB.

    There are much better ways of doing things that would really make te game a better experience for everyone.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You know what is really sad? Hello Kitty has a bigger map than most of DDO's maps. If little kids are able to find locations in a game, then I have to wonder about the mental state of those who are making this complaint. Turbine does not need to attract those who are so mentally limited that they would be worthless in a party.
    Remember that the OP is talking about finding quests in the context of LFM's. Anyone can find their way around if they have the time but if you are new, not a member of a guild (So you can't use the airship captain.) and you have to find a quest-giver you don't know anything about (Who could be anywhere on any of the 7+ maps) and then find your way to a quest that can be in any of 7+ maps, it can be a problem when the group wants to get going or the PUG is in progress as most are these days.

  5. #25
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    Remember that the OP is talking about finding quests in the context of LFM's.
    Given that the OP has not really provided us with information beyond simply being unable to locate quests, I would guess he has not yet reached the quests beyond those of the houses. As such the below steps should be just fine.

    Step 1) Get LFM.
    Step 2) Ask for a share.
    Step 3) Follow the blinking indicator.

    I'm all for helping new players. I am less eager to help those who refuse to accept the assistance given to them. Both by Turbine and other players.
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  6. #26
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    The only reason you need BB for TRs is because of the ridiculous XP required at 3rd live TR. That should be lowered. The current problem is that we have a game with a smallish population and the current TR/BB situation means that Turbine have fragmented their player base into newer players/first lifers and people who TR. This really is an issue. Maybe Turbine should add more extreme challenge optionals (THink of Interupting the ritual or the Doomsphere in Fleshmaker's.) that are real challenges that would cause parties with TR players to try them and inexperienced parties could avoid them. This could make up the XP deficit of getting rid of BB.

    There are much better ways of doing things that would really make te game a better experience for everyone.
    This is a good idea, but I dont see them putting these extreme challenges in everyquest, which you would have to do
    to make up for lost BB. Even then I could see the zerger TR's complaining that it takes to long. My idea would be to
    have specific quests that are extreme challenges in themselves, make them ridiculously hard and worth it to run for XP
    and loot. Make them heroic level and not epic. It would give newer players something to strive for and maybe
    make TR'ing a little more fun. Maybe scale them like challenges so they are viable for more than just a few levels.
    I'm sure there are flaws in this, but its just off the top of my head.

    Interupting the Ritual is one of my favorites btw. To bad so many groups run right past it.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Then DDO is not for them. Part of the joy of DDO is exploration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    DDO is a nitch game for people who want to get as close as possible to the pencil & paper game.
    Whether or not players are supposed explore when playing DDO just to set foot inside a quest, or whether or not the pencil and paper game is as close as possible to a caster hiding behind two melees blocking a doorway while placing a firewall on top of them that miraculously doesn't burn the players, while the enemies keep running in place roasting in the firewall, blocked by the melees but not attacking them, are merely opinions.

    DDO is not what you like to say it is at a given moment to prove a point. DDO is a massively multiplayer online videogame that makes use of the D&D license, period.

  8. #28
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredericko View Post
    DDO is a massively multiplayer online videogame that makes use of the D&D license, period.
    You hit the nail on the head. DDO is definitely an MMO. However it is not your ordinary MMO as it tries to emulate a pen-and-paper game. As such it has to implement concepts that are foreign to other MMOs while still maintaining features that are expected. I have yet to run into an MMO that lacked mapping capabilities. Likewise I have very seldom run into an MMO that did not expect some level of exploration on the part of the user.

    I won't deny that DDO could certainly use better tutorials. Teaching Rogues that trapping gear is necessary would help immensely with some pugs. But I have yet to run into an MMO that is designed to hold your hand every single step of the way. There are probably some that exist but I would doubt they would have any real complexity to them. Certainly they would not exist on the complexity level of DDO.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-04-2013 at 02:45 AM.
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  9. #29
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    OP, DDO is dumb that way. Poorly designed yawn. Combat and character creation is the only things it does right.
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 10-04-2013 at 07:43 AM.

  10. #30
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    OP, DDO is dumb that way. Poorly designed yawn. Combat and character creation is the only things it does right.
    What should we do with quest locations? Make a giant room with a doorway to quests?

    I agree it's not implemented amazingly, but I don't see that many options. (DDO wiki having maps of each house/area with quest locations would be useful, though I'm too lazy to try that.)
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 10-04-2013 at 07:43 AM.

  11. #31
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    What should we do with quest locations? Make a giant room with a doorway to quests?
    Well we already have seen a preliminary attempt to assist those who find it difficult to find the quest location. Wheloon Prison and Storm Horns both offer the ability to teleport directly to the quest for astral shards. No reason they couldn't replicate this with other content.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Well we already have seen a preliminary attempt to assist those who find it difficult to find the quest location. Wheloon Prison and Storm Horns both offer the ability to teleport directly to the quest for astral shards. No reason they couldn't replicate this with other content.
    ...Aside from the forum rage that they'd get. I can really see new players staying if they have to pay to get to a quest (due to them not wanting to learn how to get there.)

    Bah. A NPC that sold a map of area "X" for a reasonable plat fee would be good to help them.

    Still, I'll step away from this thread. I've offered all I can, but I didn't really have trouble learning my first time round. (And didn't spend an hour learning the maps, that'd be absurd. I'm here to kill stuff and get hjealzed.)

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    What should we do with quest locations? Make a giant room with a doorway to quests?
    Actually, other MMORPGs do exactly that (namely, Vindictus - though V is an ARPG, not a 1-to-1 comparison). Bear in mind V does have other restrictions for grouping that give birth to other issues, but I haven't missed the run-to-quest-entrance mechanics ever. To put another example, when Burnout Paradise was introduced to the Burnout series there was a big turmoil because the developer (Criterion Games) removed the need to drive all the way to the starting line to take part into a race. Criterion would later admit this mechanic was a vast improvement.

    I'm not advocating easier navigation because I can't find my way into quests. I'm the TR'ing guy throwing the full BB LFMs and seeing people join then drop because we're in progress and the new group member doesn't know how to get into Foundation of Discord or Chains of Flame (these two are actual examples from a couple of days ago, hence my posting in this thread). I can step into the shoes of these players and realize their game experience is rather unpleasant. But we are out for max xp/minute and it's pretty obvious we aren't stepping out of quests to help people get into the quests. Yet we're very friendly; we keep the LFMs open to anyone, we don't mind people piking at the entrance if they do a late entry, we don't mind people dying (we may or may not turn back to grab your soulstone though), we aren't rude to anyone no matter what. But we don't log in to make up for Turbine's bad design choices, end of story. The whole "people need to use the help they are being offered" mantra is out of place because such help is more often than not nonexistent - LFM's like ours being the norm, not the exception.

    Being indulgent with DDO's design parts that need improvement doesn't help Turbine in the least, btw. And DDO, as good as it is, has some terrible design choices no matter how you look at them (heroic Fens / Sands walking to epic quests entrance?).

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    This really is an issue. Maybe Turbine should add more extreme challenge optionals (THink of Interupting the ritual or the Doomsphere in Fleshmaker's.) that are real challenges that would cause parties with TR players to try them and inexperienced parties could avoid them. This could make up the XP deficit of getting rid of BB.
    Horrible idea, unless you want to scale up such optionals to 50000x more xp than they usually give they'd be horrible xp/min and wouldn't be ran anyways. Making content no one will use is a bad idea.

  15. #35
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    for any newbies still reading this thread, another way is to find a group doing the quest you've just found (after checking it's the right level range of course)

    i remember feeling hopelessly lost when i first started DDO, and i still get a little edgy when a new area is released and i dont know the quest names, where they are or who gives them out. so what i do is walk into the new area, talk to the first NPC and follow his lead to a quest. then i find some players to join me either by joining an LFM that happens to be doing one of the quests i have just found, or making my own.

    you can focus on one area, find all the quest givers, grab all the quests then hit any LFM that has a matching quest. the journal, press L, will let you select the area you are in then click on the quest to get that yellow arrow on the mini map.
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  16. #36
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bverji View Post
    Yes its just not worth it to me. I don't feel comfortable with every time I want to do a mission asking for special attention to be directed to the mission. Without a frame of reference exploring doesn't do me much good, nor do I want to spend hours exploring the rather bland city environment just so I can experience what the game fundamentally is suppose to provide. For me a game that can't provide a clear access to actually playing the content fails at the most basic level. Thanks for your responses and I wish you all well, Hope to see you in the future in a game that actually wants new players to play.
    DDO is an intricate and complicated game overall, and as a long term playing MMO will take time to learn it.

    It can be confusing trying to find quests.. Neverwitner had a pretty decent idea with the sparkly trail to guide you to your destination when you activated a quest.
    This would be a usefull addition for those pita to find quests where quest givers are still listed under wrong houses or obscurely placed...


    If you cant be bothered to learn general city references or explore then this is likely not going to be a good game experience for you.

    Neverwinter may be better suited to your playstyle.
    It is more of a follow the guided path than the free range exploration, more rigid character builds, and fewer buttons to deal with.
    Press 6 keys, follow the path..nothing else to see here..., press 6 keys, rinse/repeat...look at all the other lemmings following the same path....
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendael View Post
    Remember that the OP is talking about finding quests in the context of LFM's. Anyone can find their way around if they have the time but if you are new, not a member of a guild (So you can't use the airship captain.) and you have to find a quest-giver you don't know anything about (Who could be anywhere on any of the 7+ maps) and then find your way to a quest that can be in any of 7+ maps, it can be a problem when the group wants to get going or the PUG is in progress as most are these days.
    At least a handful actually read before throwing out defensively charged attacks. Yes I am quite capable of going to a zone finding a quest giver and then finding the dungeon. The problem is grouping and finding missions outside of a zone I happen to be in. At any given time there might be 2-5 groups going and who knows where the hell they could be or where the quest giver is. and the group has probably already started. I'm not attacking DDO in general, but this is a horrible system and for me at least makes it not worth playing.
    Last edited by bverji; 10-06-2013 at 12:45 AM.

  18. #38
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bverji View Post
    At any given time there might be 2-5 groups going and who knows where the hell they could be or where the quest giver is. and the group has probably already started. I'm not attacking DDO in general, but this is a horrible system and for me at least makes it not worth playing.
    If you never ask or attempt to learn you will never be able to pick up the locations. As such the only other advice has also already been given. Find a new MMO. This one is clearly not suited for you. There is no need for Turbine to replace the system when the vast majority of the players do not have this problem.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-06-2013 at 01:45 AM.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    In the period of time you took to write your posts you could have located the quest entrance via the wiki.
    read that person who can't find the quests join date. They know where the quests are.

  20. #40
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    read that person who can't find the quests join date. They know where the quests are.
    Join date is not applicable in this instance. What is applicable is that he is unwilling to ask for assistance from the party and is somehow unable to find anything on his own using maps.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-06-2013 at 02:03 AM.
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