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  1. #101
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Does a thrower count as a secondary weapon? I missed that if you already covered those.
    Good question. Perhaps a thrower would count like a quiver of ammunition. I usually picture a bandoleer with throwing weapons sheathed along it. So perhaps limit it to 1 type of thrown weapon, and if you "specialize"* in throwing - a couple of bandoleers [or even better Returning! I'm open for that, since throwing weapons aren't usually very powerful and AA's have their returning arrows].

    *i.e. it's your main ranged

    Honestly though I don't see the difference between exiting the quest, sprinting to the nearest tavern, chugging some Stormreach lemonade, and running back to the quest with a full health bar and just using the shrine. Simulate camping inside the quest (many of which are actually outdoors), or simulate outside the quest. Seems like semantics to me.
    I agree. And I think with the healing available with characters, found potions etc. it's unnecessary. Besides I JUST got used to the idea of NOT going back out the way I came in - sheesh.

    Did we address using radiant servants? Specifically the regenerating turns being used as an endless HP/SP battery (with divine vitality)? Anyone have a problem with that?
    I think that should be up to the individual. I if ask to be allowed to [duh, duh, duhhh!] "build" a multi class character up with cherry picking enhancements [to simulate his own "personal but undescribed" tree] then I'm not going to preach about some enhancements being this, that, or the other. *O.o* <blushing 'cause I've argued so much - sorry.

  2. #102
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    That list was showing what I think IS NOT reasonable.
    Right, I got that.


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    So your character has a heavy mace slung at his hip, a heavy wooden shield on his arm. He's got a 5 foot, 20lbs Warhammer strapped on his back - nestled up next to his spare, "small" 2 foot diameter 10lbs steel shield and 3 foot long strung longbow AND wide quiver with 1400 arrows?! WOW.
    A warhammer is 5lbs, not 20lbs.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Warhammer

    A small steel shield is 6lbs, not 10lbs.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Light_Shield

    And your guy has 2 long swords (4lbs each x2 is 8lbs) and 2 short swords (2lbs each x2 is 4lbs) strapped to his hip when he unslings his bow. That's 4 weapons yanking his pants down. At least the spare shield can be strapped to the outside of my pack.

    Your 4 weapons weigh more than my warhammer and shield.

    And another guy has 2 12lb great axes. Oh and he can have 2 short swords too (2 main and 2 secondary - light). And a bow is okay?

    But a guy with a shield (even just 1 shield according to your post) cannot have a bow.


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    You got a SHIELD strapped to your arm. You chose "up close and personal".
    Heard of the goose and the gander?
    You trained in two weapon fighting - you chose up close and personal.
    You trained with a big two-hander. You chose up close and personal.


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    You're still thinking of weapons and gear as CONCEPTS that are easily carried, stored, swapped and juggled. That's GAMING. A golf bag full of equipment for every occasion.
    I believe I was the one who said "no swapping gear during a fight" to which you replied "Oh its okay to swap weapons".

    "Hang on Mr. Orc, I need to sheath my rapier and dagger real quick while I simultaneously pull out (with my other two hands) a different set of weapons that will work better on you. Hey I said wait!"

    If you want to keep a "realistic" mind set, you need to be consistent.


    Let's back up though - skip the two sets of each if you want. That still does not explain why carrying even ONE shield should disqualify you from carrying a bow. It does not make sense. That is what caught my attention.





    Last edited by Fedora1; 10-10-2013 at 05:25 AM.

  3. #103
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    Good question. Perhaps a thrower would count like a quiver of ammunition. I usually picture a bandoleer with throwing weapons sheathed along it. So perhaps limit it to 1 type of thrown weapon, and if you "specialize"* in throwing - a couple of bandoleers [or even better Returning! I'm open for that, since throwing weapons aren't usually very powerful and AA's have their returning arrows].
    Because carrying a stack of 50 throwing hammers or 50 throwing axes is realistic, but a shield and a bow is not. lol

  4. #104
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post

    Did we address using radiant servants? Specifically the regenerating turns being used as an endless HP/SP battery (with divine vitality)? Anyone have a problem with that?
    I think it was indirectly addressed when the discussion about shrine usage came up.

    I think it's not a big deal if the cleric wishes to build that way. We really can't begin setting limitations to enhancement trees and still be fair to everyone.

    I can say that I will be rolling a cleric and won't be taking too much on the RS tree. DDO got along fine without Radiant's for a long time and they are not needed for group play. They just make things easier.

  5. #105
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Default Longbows

    If you all are going to get into arguments about what can and can't be carried lets get some realism into it. A longbow would be about 6 feet long, not 3 feet.

    Now as to playing DnD, the game mechanics need to be reasonable and simple enough to be mostly memorized by a bunch of teenagers who play for a few hours once a week. So... encumbrance determines how much you can carry. It doesn't matter what we are carrying.
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  6. #106
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    I was looking to have the base stat being rolled then the racial adjustment being added. I get stats rolled as 12 15 10 16 12 9 (made these up no planner relationship). I want to use those in the 3rd edition DnD way of adding the racial mods to those rolls instead of building to have those stats after racial mods.

    I also would like to be able to carry a bow and a shield.
    I also think that it should be possible to quickly change from ranged weapons to melee weapons quickly. Multiple times in FR books Cattie-brie dropped Taulmaril to draw her current melee weapon. This should not include a shield but 2 weapons are okay as Drizzt did the same at least once.
    Last edited by Book_O_Dragons; 10-09-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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  7. #107
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    If you all are going to get into arguments about what can and can't be carried lets get some realism into it. A longbow would be about 6 feet long, not 3 feet.

    Now as to playing DnD, the game mechanics need to be reasonable and simple enough to be mostly memorized by a bunch of teenagers who play for a few hours once a week. So... encumbrance determines how much you can carry. It doesn't matter what we are carrying.

    I think a short bow and any medium shield (or smaller) is realistic. Longbow and tower shield not so much.


    @zefjoe: yeah 50 hammers is a stretch. I was really referring to returning throwers.

  8. #108
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    Shrines

    I like the idea of exiting a dungeon to rest...but not the idea of having to run to a tavern. Instead of a shrine, you could exit and benefit only from the city regeneration, I suppose. How much do you get in 5 min? The loss of gaming time is the con to offset the resting benefit. If you're in the wilderness, the option isn't available. I think you'd want the entire group to stick together.

    You could stick with the current idea of shrine use per level, but with a caveat that the shrine must be in a "fortified location" (i.e. a room with a door that closes). This would at least justify the lack of wandering monsters.

    ----------

    Weapons

    We could make it simpler and permit 1 set of melee weapons and 1 set of ranged weapons, plus 1 backup weapon of any sort. We're including shields as a weapon in this case.

    (1 Two-handed weapon
    OR
    1 One-handed weapon & 1 Light weapon
    OR
    1 One-handed weapon & 1 shield)

    PLUS

    (1 Bow & 1 Quiver
    OR
    1 Type of throwing weapon)

    PLUS

    (Any 1 backup weapon of your choice)
    Last edited by Magiker; 10-09-2013 at 09:55 PM.

  9. #109
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    My point to all that weapon set argument was to eliminate the idea that you had to have

    1 weapon for each and every occasion, each and every possible combo
    1 shield for regular enemies, 1 shield for undead, 1 shield for elementals, etc. etc. etc.
    plus 2-3 bows and 3-4 quivers
    and a back pack full of junk.

    that's it.

    If a player really feels like they need a weapon for every possible encounter - 5 sets of weapons - 4 shields - 3 sets of armor - 2 bows and a partridge in a pear tree, then BY ALL MEANS, bring it. You're not going to hurt my feelings. But don't pretend that you're playing PnP like. You are playing DOOM, run and gun.

    Just curious what would YOUR idea of a REASONABLE weapon load out be?

    Nearly all my characters carry
    1 slashing weapon
    1 piercing weapon
    1 bludgeoning weapon
    in various combos

    if they have a shield, I try to roll play and NOT carry a ranged weapon.
    if I DO carry a ranged weapon, I DON'T carry a 2 hander.
    etc. etc.

    this load out counters all enemies, this load out GETS AWAY from the golf bag full of weapons.

    I can eliminate weapon sets entirely and just advise everyone to bring whatever they feel is "appropriate". But it's sad to see someone flip through a catalog of weapons while I stand there with a longsword, a shortsword and a bow/quiver.

  10. #110
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default Absolutely last version...

    Classes and Races:
    - Allowed races include everything f2p and Drow, Helf, Horc [not Warforged].
    - Allowed classes include everything f2p [not Arti, Druid, Monk, FvSoul].
    - Multiclassing is allowed but with no more than 2 levels difference between classes.

    Character creation:
    However you feel comfortable with and FITS THE IDEA OF PnP. SOME suggestions -

    - For each roll, make this adjustment......
    If the number is 7, change it to 6.
    If the number is 9, change it to 8.
    If the number is 11 or 12, change it to 10.
    If the number is 14 or 15, change it to 13.

    After each roll, subtract the resulting number from the build point pool.
    As long as there is at least 10 points available in the pool, use a d10 for the roll.

    Example:
    Step 1: Roll a d10 and add 6. This is your ONE chance to obtain anything over a 16 Stat.
    Step 2: Adjust (if necessary) and subtract the number from the build pool.
    Step 3: Roll a d10 (or lower if build pool is below 10). Record as second number.
    Step 4: repeat Step 3 for numbers 3 to 5.
    Step 5: for the last Stat, use whatever is remaining in the pool. This COULD be a significant number.

    For example - rolled 14 is the number a player wishes for his DEX to be. He spends points into DEX to bring it up to 14. If his race has a -2 DEX he should select a rolled 16 to plug into that stat, otherwise it will be 12, even if he hasn't rolled a 12. [I may misunderstand how dice rolls work but his method is simple. I have a target number - do I have a rolled number that matches? I put points into the stat until it reaches the target. If the target has a -2 or a +2 I should take that into account. It is randomly rolled numbers assigned to where I want them, not numbers used to "fill up a stat".]

    If you wish to have the base stat being rolled first then the racial adjustment being added, that's fine.

    JUST NO MIN/MAX.


    Death:
    CHOICE 1
    a dead character unable to be raised - rides in the pack of another until the end of the quest. The shade of the fallen following along until just before the end. [Maybe the carrier must either not engage in combat or dump the stone first.] The dead character misses out on chest loot and the action but gets to share the adventure as a spirit. Near the end of the quest the dead character must release before the finish.

    Result - The dead are carried by another. Release before completion.
    No XP. No loot. No loss of gear.

    CHOICE 2
    a dead character unable to be raised - rides in the pack of another until the end of the quest. The shade of the fallen following along until just before the end. [Maybe the carrier must either not engage in combat or dump the stone first.] The dead character misses out on chest loot and the action but gets to share the adventure as a spirit. After quest completion the dead release. The dead character will choose his highest ML item [or 1 of his highest if multiple items have same ML], post it in party chat so that the group may see what it is, and then destroy it.

    Result - The dead are carried by another. The shade of the fallen following along, and finishes with the party. The fallen destroy the highest ML item in possession after Release. He must declare what item and show it in party chat so that all may see, and destroy it.
    Full XP. No loot. Loss of highest ML gear [destroyed].

    AUTOMATIC
    a dead character, whose soul stone is unable to be retrieved shall be left behind. He must Release from the quest.

    Result - The dead are left behind if their stone is unretrievable. They must Release immediately from the quest. After Release they must destroy ALL items EQUIPPED only.
    No XP. No loot. Loss of all equipped gear. [destroyed]



    Shrines:
    Level 1-7 = no shrine use - Echoes of Power will keep you running.
    Level 8-14 = 1 shrine use per quest for mana restoration only - caster needs to be nearly fully healed [no more than 10hp down] before use.
    Level 15-20 = no shrine use - by this time a dedicated caster should have SLA's and/or the ability to restore some magic.
    *Please not I split the difference here between no shrines and "some shrines".



    Chests and Looting:
    - ALL chests get 1, 1d6 roll. A 1 [16.6% chance] only allows the chest to be looted by all. Roll by round robin, starting with party leader at the first chest.
    - End Rewards can only be taken for Chained quests, otherwise select Valor.
    - Any loot drops from crates or barrels can be kept by the breaker.



    Gear and packs:
    - No gear or magic items may be bought at vendors, pawn shops or AH.
    - No gear or magic items may come in from the DDO store or other characters from outside the group.
    - No "admin" or "heirloom" items.
    - total number of gear/items equipped and carried = ML total.

    Level 1-5; ML = level x 2
    Level 6-10; ML = level x3
    Level 11-15; ML = level x4
    Level 16-20; ML = level x5

    - Fortification items get reduced ML. Multiply ML by the fort %, and round up.




    Weapon sets equipped and carried in pack:
    - Whatever seems appropriate and fits the role play of your character.

    SOME SUGGESTIONS -
    - 2 main weapons
    - 2 secondary weapons [light at most]
    - 1 shield carried
    - other shield [stowed]
    - 1 bow [xbow]
    - 1 quiver [wide or narrow]

    - Each player only gets to CARRY INTO A QUEST, ONE article of gear for each armor/wearable equip slot that is large and or covers the body. So ONE piece of armor, outfit or robe, ONE headgear, ONE set of bracers, ONE cloak, ONE set of boots.

    - Each player can CARRY INTO A QUEST, two pair of smaller items, so TWO pair of Gloves, Rings, Necklaces, Trinkets, etc.

    - the FIRST pack tab is the ONLY tab accessible WHILE IN A QUEST OR WILDERNESS. The others act as quick banks or pack mule or porter or whatever you wish to role play [NOTE this means acquired items in quest can be PUT INTO other tabs to carry, just not ACCESSIBLE.] Only Magic Ingredients are the exception and may be carried in any tab.

    - If a character is lucky enough to acquire a Portable Hole, that converted pack space could be used as such. Any bags such as Gems, Collectibles or Essences that are gotten in game are allowed [from quest givers or vendors], but cannot be purchased through the DDO store.



    Potions:
    - No potions of any type may be bought from vendors, AH or alts.
    - Found potions of any type can be kept, but are limited to 5 STACKS of 16 of any type brought into a quest AT START. = 5 pint sized canteens/flagons. They can be carried from quest to quest.

    Healing/cure items can be obtained from collectors provided you got the collectibles from questing. No collectibles (or rewards from collectibles) allowed from outside sources such as AH or alts.



    Wands and Scrolls:
    - Wands and Scrolls found in quests can be used within the quest and can be kept from quest to quest. The ML level COUNTS towards ML total.



    Odds and Ends:
    - Finish and Recall OK
    - movement mode, as fits the situation
    - any enhancement choice



    LAST CALL. If you are interested in playing, review the above. If you can live with it, post your intent to play and when you are available.
    Last edited by zefjoe; 10-10-2013 at 07:56 AM.

  11. #111
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default Intent to play...

    Zefjoe: available Thurs - Sun, 7:00 PM - 10:30 PM EST. Multi-class support.

  12. #112
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    My point to all that weapon set argument was to eliminate the idea that you had to have

    1 weapon for each and every occasion, each and every possible combo
    1 shield for regular enemies, 1 shield for undead, 1 shield for elementals, etc. etc. etc.
    plus 2-3 bows and 3-4 quivers
    and a back pack full of junk.

    that's it.
    If you could point to where I suggested that idea, your replies would have been appropriate.

    If you can show me why a shield would negate carrying a ranged weapon, your replies would have been appropriate. But then you'd have to explain why the pictures I posted are unrealistic.


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    If a player really feels like they need a weapon for every possible encounter - 5 sets of weapons - 4 shields - 3 sets of armor - 2 bows and a partridge in a pear tree, then BY ALL MEANS, bring it. You're not going to hurt my feelings. But don't pretend that you're playing PnP like. You are playing DOOM, run and gun.
    Why are you bringing this up? No one has suggested any such thing. Did you read my posts?


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    Just curious what would YOUR idea of a REASONABLE weapon load out be?
    That carrying a shield does not somehow make a bow impossible to carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    Nearly all my characters carry
    1 slashing weapon
    1 piercing weapon
    1 bludgeoning weapon
    in various combos

    if they have a shield, I try to roll play and NOT carry a ranged weapon.
    if I DO carry a ranged weapon, I DON'T carry a 2 hander.
    etc. etc.
    That's wonderful. I happen to think a person can carry a 2-handed weapon AND a bow. Or a 1-handed weapon, shield, AND a bow (like in the pictures). Your character can carry 3 hand-to-hand weapons and a bow.

    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    this load out GETS AWAY from the golf bag full of weapons.
    Where did you get the idea anyone is requesting a golf bag of weapons? Have you been dipping into Percy's supply of pipe tobacco?

    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    I can eliminate weapon sets entirely and just advise everyone to bring whatever they feel is "appropriate". But it's sad to see someone flip through a catalog of weapons while I stand there with a longsword, a shortsword and a bow/quiver.
    OR you can just look at the pictures I posted and realize that a shield does not prohibit someone from carrying a bow. It's a pretty simple request, pretty simple concept, that I thought would be easy to grasp. No need to make false accusations (multiple times) that I was requesting unrealistic load outs and golf bags and catalogs full of weapons.

    I think it might be time for me to not only sit out STORM v2, but perhaps this thread as well. I apologize to everyone for any distraction I have caused.

  13. #113
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    And I apologize for losing my temper. I've responded to everyone's separate objections by trying to compromise the expectation of the rule set, using other suggestions, without losing sight of the main purpose of STORM.

    Can anyone live with, and play in the spirit of, the last posted Guideline?

  14. #114
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    I'll be available any of those time you mentioned zefjoe except Fridays.
    The worst problem on the DDO forums right now

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  15. #115
    Community Member DrowsworD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    And I apologize for losing my temper. I've responded to everyone's separate objections by trying to compromise the expectation of the rule set, using other suggestions, without losing sight of the main purpose of STORM.

    Can anyone live with, and play in the spirit of, the last posted Guideline?
    I can work with the posted guidelines.

    DEATH
    We had tabled the discussion on Death Consequences for without a real consensus, and I am not certain how much anyone will like riding a pack for much of a night. I occasionally, die a LOT, and following along in someone's pack till the end is often boring. I would like the option of recalling back to the tavern, especially since the dead are not getting any XP or treasure - which I agree with.

    ENCUMBRANCE and STORAGE
    I didn't see any guidelines for encumbrance. I remember a discussion where we would use 10% of the listed encumbrance as our max load. This will decrease the number of things we can carry into a quest and may much of the "multiple weapons, shields, bows, ..." conversation mute.

    WEAPONS
    As for the debate on weapons, it was said that we could only swap out what is in the first tab; that is 20 spaces. If you want potions, multiple weapons (main and minor), shields, bows, quivers, arrows, etc that space will fill up fast. Personally, although my characters often have a backup weapon, I rarely use it. My ranger probably switches weapons most, from bow to two-weapon fighting gear. Except for Paladins, I don't carry a shield.

    Knowing how they are constructed and worn (SCA events, etc), these are not easy to get off. I could see someone carrying a buckler and a bow, and great weapon, but two shields is unlikely due to their encumbrance, which is not just weight but size and "bulkiness". The same goes for 2-handed weapons. If that is someone's playstyle, however, and they want to try their skill under these guidelines, the I am okay with it.

    DICE
    I tried the D10 system and always ran out of points long before I got to the end. You also have to remember that it is not a one point, one stat system in DDO. The first 6 increases of a stat cost one point, the next two cost 2 and the next cost 3. If you start at 8 and want to a stat to be 16, that cost 10 points, not 8.
    The system is also not well defined. If the point pool is less than 10, you have to roll a d8 or you could get a negative in the pool. If it then falls below 8 you need to switch to a d6, etc. This is not listed in the guidelines but was indicated in the original examples. This method is hard to explain and understand. I tried to create characters using several rolls using this method and they all had problems.

    A "use whatever you want but be reasonable" approach is good, but to prevent min/max I think we should make simple rules. Use your 28 points however you want, but, you have to spend at least 2 points in EVERY stat. No stat should be less than 8 and only one above 16 This simulates starting stats of 10, racial adjustments are added in, and there are enough points left to make a "decent" character, or even an uber one if you sacrifice other stats.

    STARTING
    I am available EST Thursday - Sunday usually by 8:00PM. There are only a few servers where I have max alts (I'm F2P premium so only 4 slots per server). Argonessen, Wayfarer, Sarlona and some others are okay.

    I suggest we skip the grotto tutorial and go directly to Korthos to start questing.

  16. #116
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I think it might be time for me to not only sit out STORM v2, but perhaps this thread as well. I apologize to everyone for any distraction I have caused.

    I liked the pictures, but next time can you post actual photographs of ancient roman, celtic, mongol, and orc warriors?

    Now that I think about it we should just all be equipped like these guys:




    No encumbrance issues here.
    Last edited by Postumus; 10-10-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  17. #117
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrowsworD View Post
    I can work with the posted guidelines.

    DEATH
    We had tabled the discussion on Death Consequences for without a real consensus, and I am not certain how much anyone will like riding a pack for much of a night. I occasionally, die a LOT, and following along in someone's pack till the end is often boring. I would like the option of recalling back to the tavern, especially since the dead are not getting any XP or treasure - which I agree with.
    That or allow us to run around an explorer area just to keep occupied. I'm good with either.

    ENCUMBRANCE and STORAGE
    I didn't see any guidelines for encumbrance. I remember a discussion where we would use 10% of the listed encumbrance as our max load.
    Was wondering the same. Thought I missed it.


    WEAPONS
    As for the debate on weapons,
    I plan on only using one main weapon, two secondary weapons no shields, one quiver, and one item per inventory slot. So all told I'll carry three weapons (total) into a quest. I plan to play as lean as possible just so I can avoid all the golf bag/inventory hassle I deal with when playing my other characters. I've found it can be liberating to play this way on some characters especially low magic and PD ones.

    DICE
    I tried the D10 system and always ran out of points long before I got to the end. You also have to remember that it is not a one point, one stat system in DDO. The first 6 increases of a stat cost one point, the next two cost 2 and the next cost 3. If you start at 8 and want to a stat to be 16, that cost 10 points, not 8.
    The system is also not well defined. If the point pool is less than 10, you have to roll a d8 or you could get a negative in the pool. If it then falls below 8 you need to switch to a d6, etc. This is not listed in the guidelines but was indicated in the original examples. This method is hard to explain and understand. I tried to create characters using several rolls using this method and they all had problems.

    Intruder's system works because you are actually rolling for build points, not the stat. So if you roll a 6, you get six build points to put in a stat. Since you can't put 7,9,11, or 12 build points in a stat, Intruder has you round down/up to 6, 8, 10, and 13. But it feels unwieldy.


    I was trying to come up with a very simple alternative for this. Something like 1d6 build points for each stat. If you roll more than 26 points before your last stat, just put the remaining points in the that stat. If you have build points left over after rolling all for all six stats, you can allocate the remainder however you like.


    Say I'm rolling up a dwarven fighter.


    EX 1: (Most likely scenario)

    Step 1: Roll 1d6 six times (one 1d6 per stat)

    roll #1: 3 build points (BPs)
    roll #2: 1 BPs
    roll #3: 6 BPs
    roll #4: 5 BPs
    roll #5: 4 BPs
    roll #6: 3 BPs


    Step 2: assign build points (in any order) to stats and add to base stat. Stat = base + build points.

    STR: 8 + 6 BPs = 14
    DEX: 8 + 4 BPs = 12
    CON: 10 + 5 BPs = 15
    INT: 8 + 3 BPs = 11
    WIS: 8 + 3 BPs = 11
    CHA: 6 + 1 BP = 7

    22 build points used. 10 remaining.


    Step 3: Allocate remaining build points as desired.

    STR: 14 + 4BPs = 16
    DEX: 12
    CON: 15 + 5BPs = 18
    INT: 11 + 1 BPs = 12
    WIS: 11
    CHA: 7

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrowsworD View Post
    I can work with the posted guidelines.

    DEATH
    We had tabled the discussion on Death Consequences for without a real consensus, and I am not certain how much anyone will like riding a pack for much of a night. I occasionally, die a LOT, and following along in someone's pack till the end is often boring. I would like the option of recalling back to the tavern, especially since the dead are not getting any XP or treasure - which I agree with.
    That or allow us to run around an explorer area just to keep occupied. I'm good with either.

    ENCUMBRANCE and STORAGE
    I didn't see any guidelines for encumbrance. I remember a discussion where we would use 10% of the listed encumbrance as our max load.
    Was wondering the same. Thought I missed it.


    WEAPONS
    As for the debate on weapons,
    I plan on only using one main weapon, two secondary weapons no shields, one quiver, and one item per inventory slot. So all told I'll carry three weapons (total) into a quest. I plan to play as lean as possible just so I can avoid all the golf bag/inventory hassle I deal with when playing my other characters. I've found it can be liberating to play this way on some characters especially low magic and PD ones.

    DICE
    I tried the D10 system and always ran out of points long before I got to the end. You also have to remember that it is not a one point, one stat system in DDO. The first 6 increases of a stat cost one point, the next two cost 2 and the next cost 3. If you start at 8 and want to a stat to be 16, that cost 10 points, not 8.
    The system is also not well defined. If the point pool is less than 10, you have to roll a d8 or you could get a negative in the pool. If it then falls below 8 you need to switch to a d6, etc. This is not listed in the guidelines but was indicated in the original examples. This method is hard to explain and understand. I tried to create characters using several rolls using this method and they all had problems.

    Intruder's system works because you are actually rolling for build points, not the stat. So if you roll a 6, you get six build points to put in a stat. Since you can't put 7,9,11, or 12 build points in a stat, Intruder has you round down/up to 6, 8, 10, and 13. But it feels unwieldy.


    I was trying to come up with a very simple alternative for this.


    See next post for explanation.

  19. #119
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Default Alternative system to roll for stats

    Roll 1d6 build points for each stat. If you roll more than 26 points before your last stat, just put the remaining points in the that stat. If you have build points left over after rolling all for all six stats, you can allocate the remainder however you like.


    Say I'm rolling up a dwarven fighter.

    EXAMPLE 1:

    Dwarf #1



    Step 1: Roll 1d6 six times (one 1d6 per stat)

    roll #1: 3 build points (BPs)
    roll #2: 1 BPs
    roll #3: 6 BPs
    roll #4: 5 BPs
    roll #5: 4 BPs
    roll #6: 3 BPs

    Total BPs rolled are 22. I have 10 remaining.


    Step 2: assign build points (in any order) to stats and add to base stat. Stat = base + build points.

    STR: 8 + 6 BPs = 14
    DEX: 8 + 4 BPs = 12
    CON: 10 + 5 BPs = 15
    INT: 8 + 3 BPs = 11
    WIS: 8 + 3 BPs = 11
    CHA: 6 + 1 BP = 7

    NOTE: if you wanted to be really strict, you could just roll once for each stat and take what you get rather than assigning the results in the order you like
    Step 3: Allocate remaining build points as desired.

    Since I have 10 BPs remaining, I can assign them wherever I'd like.

    STR: 14 + 4BPs = 16
    DEX: 12
    CON: 15 + 5BPs = 18
    INT: 11 + 1 BPs = 12
    WIS: 11
    CHA: 7


    VOILA!

    DWARF #1

    STR: 16
    DEX: 12
    CON: 18
    INT: 12
    WIS: 11
    CHA: 7



    This example is the most likely scenario as you will average around 18-24 build points allocated by die rolls leaving you with 8 -14 build points you can allocate as you desire.


    Even the outliers don't look too bad in terms of typical DDO min/maxing as this method guarantees you will spend at least 1 build point per stat but still gives you a decent chance to get two key stats in the 15-18 range.


    To follow are examples of what my character's stats might look like if I rolled a series of very low or very high numbers (the outliers) using this method.
    Last edited by Postumus; 10-10-2013 at 06:17 PM.

  20. #120
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    EXAMLE 2: Rolling HIGH

    Dwarven fighter #2

    Step 1: Roll 1d6 six times (one 1d6 per stat)

    roll #1: 6 build points (BPs)
    roll #2: 6 BPs
    roll #3: 6 BPs
    roll #4: 5 BPs
    roll #5: 6 BPs
    roll #6: 4 BPs

    Total BPs rolled are 33. So round I down my last roll until my total BPs = 32. That gives me:

    roll #1: 6 BPs
    roll #2: 6 BPs
    roll #3: 6 BPs
    roll #4: 5 BPs
    roll #5: 6 BPs
    roll #6:4 BPs -1 = 3BPs


    Step 2: assign build points (in any order) to stats and add to base stat. Stat = base + build points.

    STR: 8 + 6 BPs = 14
    DEX: 8 + 6 BPs = 14
    CON: 10 + 6 BPs = 16
    INT: 8 + 6 BPs = 14
    WIS: 8 + 5 BPs = 13
    CHA: 6 + 3 BPs = 9

    32 build points used. 0 remaining. So skip step 3.

    Dwarf #2

    STR: 14
    DEX: 14
    CON: 16
    INT: 14
    WIS: 13
    CHA: 9
    Last edited by Postumus; 10-10-2013 at 06:03 PM.

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