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  1. #1
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    Default Tie fate points to Character Levels instead of Epic Destiny levels.

    As the title says.

    Characters would get 2 fate points per epic level: A level 20 charcter gets 2 fate points, 21 gets 4, up to the current cap of 18 at level 28.

    This way, people would still need to open the destinies and twists they wanted to use, but no one would have to run draconic incarnation barbarians to level 5. And character levels will actually DO something.
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  2. #2
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Wow, a fatepoint suggestion that i might actually agree to.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    As the title says.

    Characters would get 2 fate points per epic level: A level 20 charcter gets 2 fate points, 21 gets 4, up to the current cap of 18 at level 28.

    This way, people would still need to open the destinies and twists they wanted to use, but no one would have to run draconic incarnation barbarians to level 5. And character levels will actually DO something.
    That's actually an awesome idea. Simple, easily understable, gives some tie-in to epic levels and destinies, and both easy to understand and to implement. Getting new levels for the upcoming epic reinc would be more rewarding as well, and less painful for the most part as you could grind the levels in a proper destiny.

    It would invalidate the existing ED grind to some degree, but you'd still have to grind the ED:s to get the desired twists. It wouldn't fully remove the annoying grind, but it would ease it up alot, and I would imagine that would skyrocket the sales of keys of destiny.

    Awesome idea, please implement this yesterday!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    As the title says.

    Characters would get 2 fate points per epic level: A level 20 charcter gets 2 fate points, 21 gets 4, up to the current cap of 18 at level 28.

    This way, people would still need to open the destinies and twists they wanted to use, but no one would have to run draconic incarnation barbarians to level 5. And character levels will actually DO something.
    Just outta idle curiousity, if all they wanted was the one fate point, why would they run it to five instead of 3?

    The greedy part of me looks at this and goes 'Ooh, more points!", but the part of me that is constantly being told by everyone that the game is to easy as it is thinks having access to more stronger twists might not be a good thing.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Just outta idle curiousity, if all they wanted was the one fate point, why would they run it to five instead of 3?
    If the levels granted the fate points, they wouldn't have to. They'd have the choice of leveling destiny to 1 for the first tier twist, 3 for opening up the next ED or 4 for opening up the next sphere. That's still a serious amount of grind in off destinies, but at bare minimum you'd be reduced to having 3 ED:s at tier 4, 3 ED:s at tier 3 and the last ED:s at whatever needed for twists and active ED.

    Tier 4 is 1080k, tier 3 is 720k, so having every destiny open would be in the ballpark of 5,4m, with not too much more for the odd twists, and maybe 1m more for the tier 5 active ED. Round up that at 6.6m and we have an exp-ready toon by the time they hit 28. With 1.5m or 25% time spent in the primary destiny, and "only" 75% in the wrong ones, and lets face it, most builds have 2-3 good ED:s that are beneficial even if not the perfect ones.

    To get that 18 fate points in the current system, instead of 0-4.5 million exp in a wrong destiny, you have to spend 1.5m exp in all 11 destinies, lets say 3 are fun to play, so that leaves 8*1.5 or 12 millions of exp in bad destinies. Enough to level to 28 twice.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    The greedy part of me looks at this and goes 'Ooh, more points!", but the part of me that is constantly being told by everyone that the game is to easy as it is thinks having access to more stronger twists might not be a good thing.
    It would lessen the gap of new and old players, as well as the gap between old toons and new alts. To me that is a good thing.

    Seriously, what percentage of the players have all ED:s capped? I would imagine it's pretty small number. If more players could play in the fun ED, I'm sure epic content would be run more, and even EE content. Sure, the exclusive club of "I can solo EE VoN6 with my eyes closed" would complain about the influx of bad players to their parties, but in general, I bet more people would play epics.

    And, finally. That would add an opportunity cost for the epic reinc as well. You'd still be able to play with your maxed destiny when you reinc, but you'd have to level up to get the twists. I'm liking this more the more I think about it.

  6. #6
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Wait until lvl28 to have a useful character for EEs?
    No thanks.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Wait until lvl28 to have a useful character for EEs?
    No thanks.
    3 tier 1 twists at level 23. Are you saying a maxed ED with 3 level 1 twists, or even just a single level 3 twist, is not an useful character? Are you serious? Really?

    Additionally, nobody forces you to epic reinc. The perks might be enticing, Turbine is being pretty mums about those. But, it's not mandatory. And, compare it to TR. You lose all your experience, start at level 1, and it costs more to level up. Losing all ED exp for epic reinc is bad, because of the badness that the ED grind is, but temporarily losing a few twists, it's a cost but not something you couldn't live with.

    And yes, this would be somewhat a slap in the face of those who have maxed all ED:s, but I do feel it's a minor slap. Remember, previously they planned to remove all ED exp for epic reinc. This would kind of fit that theme without being the all-out removal it originally was planned.

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    Hmmm...

    Eighteen Fate Points.

    Eight (Eventually Ten) Epic Commoner Levels.

    Anyone else seeing a slight problem?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Hmmm...

    Eighteen Fate Points.

    Eight (Eventually Ten) Epic Commoner Levels.

    Anyone else seeing a slight problem?
    That the maximum amount of fate points would rise as much as by adding 2 new ED:s? And without presenting any twist-related limitations to adding new ED:s (even if that's unlikely to happen). Really, is one extra twist level that powerful,? So instead of 4/2/1 you'd have 4/2/2 at 30. The tier 1 abilities are in general better for twists than the tier 2:s (not all of course, but anyway difference between 0 and 1 is big, and difference between 1 and 2 is miniscule.

    I don't see any problems to be honest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Wait until lvl28 to have a useful character for EEs?
    No thanks.
    I mean this with all possible respect, as running EEs is not something I have the patience for. But people capable for rocking the hardest part of the game are absolutely the last people turbine needs to worry about when pondering a tweak that will alter the xp curve. New people bring fresh cash, the majority of new and even moderately recent players aren't at that level.

    The fact that you consider twists essential to having a "useful" character highlights my point brilliantly. Twists are great, they are in some respects more important that tier 5 ED abilities, they bring aspects of other destinies to the table, changing the play for a lot of classes in a huge way(looking at cocoon).
    I don't know that this arc is the best option, but it certainly beats grinding Grandmaster of Failures on a Sorcerer for 2 months after capping the toon.

    I think they ought to simply award the points and be done, but they took money for keys already, they can't step back on that deal. But a rethinking of the arc to make twists more widely available will positively effect a lot of endgame toons and certainly make epic-level toons capable of more diversity.

  11. #11
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    As the title says.

    Characters would get 2 fate points per epic level: A level 20 charcter gets 2 fate points, 21 gets 4, up to the current cap of 18 at level 28.

    This way, people would still need to open the destinies and twists they wanted to use, but no one would have to run draconic incarnation barbarians to level 5. And character levels will actually DO something.
    Something I haven't seen mentioned: Since I would guess that fate points would disappear under this system on a TR, it would save Turbine the problem of fixing another unmentionable (on the forums) problem.

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  12. #12
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    if this were to happen, it wouldn't be implemented until level 30. any ED grind change i don't see happening until level 30 either.

    this idea is a little different than what i had suggested, but its not a bad idea either. its definitely better than the current grind. while earning these fate points, i don't see any kind of OP twists happening for the level range you would most likely be running. the higher you level, the better the twists and the content should be getting more challenging. i think it makes sense to get your final twist when you hit epic cap and not before. as long as i can level through at least my destinies sphere and not have to level through opposite character destinies unless there is something i actually want to twist from, than i can get behind any new change. i want to see leveling off destinies as more of an option for players, not a requirement for fate points.

  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDr0wRanger View Post
    I mean this with all possible respect, as running EEs is not something I have the patience for. But people capable for rocking the hardest part of the game are absolutely the last people turbine needs to worry about when pondering a tweak that will alter the xp curve. New people bring fresh cash, the majority of new and even moderately recent players aren't at that level.
    i have to disagree with this. look at how "end game" is right now. not a lot of players around in epic levels because its nothing but a ED grindfest and just a couple raids. catering to one part of the population and not keeping a focus on another part makes the game lopsided. some players feel jaded and ride it out or play less, maybe even leave for at least an extended time. epic level players are going to spend money just as easily as a new player. theres plenty of reasons to spend money.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    If the levels granted the fate points, they wouldn't have to. They'd have the choice of leveling destiny to 1 for the first tier twist, 3 for opening up the next ED or 4 for opening up the next sphere. That's still a serious amount of grind in off destinies, but at bare minimum you'd be reduced to having 3 ED:s at tier 4, 3 ED:s at tier 3 and the last ED:s at whatever needed for twists and active ED.
    You didn't answer the question, as you only get fate points at ed level 3, and not at five, so why if they aren't using twists would they need to go to five? Also, with the new feats requiring capped spheres, I think this isn't a great idea the more I think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    To get that 18 fate points in the current system, instead of 0-4.5 million exp in a wrong destiny, you have to spend 1.5m exp in all 11 destinies, lets say 3 are fun to play, so that leaves 8*1.5 or 12 millions of exp in bad destinies. Enough to level to 28 twice.
    Um...it's 1.9 million to max a desity, and you can't get 18 fate points from doing so currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    Seriously, what percentage of the players have all ED:s capped? I would imagine it's pretty small number. If more players could play in the fun ED, I'm sure epic content would be run more, and even EE content. Sure, the exclusive club of "I can solo EE VoN6 with my eyes closed" would complain about the influx of bad players to their parties, but in general, I bet more people would play epics.

    And, finally. That would add an opportunity cost for the epic reinc as well. You'd still be able to play with your maxed destiny when you reinc, but you'd have to level up to get the twists. I'm liking this more the more I think about it.
    Well, I'm not part of the I can solo ANY EE at all, with or without my eyes closed (But I can hold my own in groups!), I have my ed's maxed. And I'm considered generally a casual and lazy player. I play for fun more than gain, and it takes me forever to get something done, and even I managed just tooling around having a good time on my toons. Sure some of the destinites were more fun than others, but I found surprising fun I wouldn't have known about if I hadn't actually played through them. And I was really glad I did because some of the feat choices with the last expansion were fun and I had access! The more I read your posting, the less I like this idea.

    I'd rather see them either add more destines for more points, or add more 'levels' to the existing ones. The greedy part of me would wan to use the ap's from more levels for stuff I had to pass on in the destiny, but I suppose new destiny abilities would be nice too.
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  15. #15
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Um...it's 1.9 million to max a desity, and you can't get 18 fate points from doing so currently.
    .
    1.5m gets you to 5th lvl in a destiny. All you need if youre grinding fate points

  16. #16
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    bad idea...going through off eds was informative and fun ....binding fate points to ed lvls would make eds too powerfull too fast unless wiped on tr

    having full twists on epic lvl toons after 1 20-28 xp zerg and then having those full twists availble as soon as you hit 20 again without having to do any more ed lvling? seems way to easy

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  17. #17
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Ive never understood all the complaining about the current system. Even if u want 5th lvl in all 11 destinies, its 15million xp (about). Thats less painful than 3rd or even 2nd life heroic

    U cant cough in epic without somebody giving u another 50k xp

  18. #18
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    I like it the way it is. If you want it, you have to work for it.

    Just like the benefits you earn for past lives. If you want it, you have to work for it.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    I like it the way it is. If you want it, you have to work for it.

    Just like the benefits you earn for past lives. If you want it, you have to work for it.
    You contradict yourself. Past lives require you to play that class to get the benefit.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    You contradict yourself. Past lives require you to play that class to get the benefit.
    Im not contradicting anything.

    If you want either or both, you have to put in the work for the benefit.
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