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  1. #1
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    Default Are Proficiency feats really worth it? Is the -4 to hit penalty that bad?

    I mean you might already be using a feat like Precision with adds to your accuracy, and there are also items that boost accuracy.

    Just how gimped are you without proficiency?

    Never really considered it until now.

  2. #2
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    YES!

    It's not -4 . . . it's -25%.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    YES!

    It's not -4 . . . it's -25%.

    Does that -4 equate to 25% or is that number it gives just flat-out wrong?

  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelair View Post
    Does that -4 equate to 25% or is that number it gives just flat-out wrong?
    It's old text that wasn't changed when the to-hit mechanics were altered in MoTU.

  5. #5
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    Default yup

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It's old text that wasn't changed when the to-hit mechanics were altered in MoTU.
    This, youll need to look up the new formula.

    -4 ab isnt a big deal at all, hell i dont have problems hitting on classes with -10+ ab compared to a maxed out str melee build, but lack of proficiency is a huge deal.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelair View Post
    Does that -4 equate to 25% or is that number it gives just flat-out wrong?
    Put it this way. When MotU came out and they changed the combat system, they forgot to convert Ranged.

    Overnight I went from hitting on a 2 to having to roll an 8 or higher to even hit at all.

  7. #7
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Put it this way. When MotU came out and they changed the combat system, they forgot to convert Ranged.

    Overnight I went from hitting on a 2 to having to roll an 8 or higher to even hit at all.
    It was pretty brutal for ranged for a while there, for sure. Hitting 20% of the time, with grazing hits or misses for the rest...

    It's worth being proficient just to avoid the ! icon for me, but that's mostly an OCD thing. I even log out when a guild hits a fame level, just so I don't have to see that !.

  8. #8
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    Put it this way. When MotU came out and they changed the combat system, they forgot to convert Ranged.

    Overnight I went from hitting on a 2 to having to roll an 8 or higher to even hit at all.
    Yeah, I remember that on my artie. That was not fun

  9. #9
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Yeah, I remember that on my artie. That was not fun
    Yup, I was "this" close that time. Funny how my memory blocked that out. And here I thought u19 was the first time I seriously considered uninstalling.

    Next time why don't you give me nice paper cut and pour lemon juice on it?
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  10. #10
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adelair View Post
    Does that -4 equate to 25% or is that number it gives just flat-out wrong?
    It's both.

    You get a 25% flat chance to miss (unstated, it's turbine after all)..

    And you get -4 just for lulz.

  11. #11
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    Also, while you use a non-proficient weapon, you don't do grazing hits.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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  12. #12
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    non proficiency:

    rolls 1 to 5: miss
    rolls 6 and higher: with high hitting stat, may be directly hit(non grazing one), but has a -4 to hit, keep in mind

    proficiency:

    rolls 1: miss
    rolls 2 to 5: most ppl use to do grazing hits (which is base weapon damage) unless you invest on to-hi stat, and stuff (as example twf has penalties to hit if you don't have the feats)
    rolls 6 and higher: almost every toon out there, i mean, non str based wiz using tenser, will hit, int based arties that keep using insightful damage instead of insightful strikes and have no rogue mechanic pre, will keep doing grazin hits from 2 to 8, which depending the weapon is pretty less dps than ensuring the hit, so funny that ppl was doing it pre enhancement pass and now keep doing it(the dex needed for the ranged feats isn't enough in a class that has 2/3 bab)
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  13. #13
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Default To hit formula

    Just for completeness' sake:

    Player’s chance to hit: (Player’s Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target’s Armor Class * 2) + 25%, rounded to nearest 5%
    Source: http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class

    You lose the +25% chance if you are not proficient, so yes it is significant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Players will use the same formula, but will have a 25% bonus to hit if they are proficient with their weapon. Unlike monster attack rolls, player to hit rolls will be mapped to a d20 by rounding to the nearest 5% - if you hit on a 13, you’ll hit on a 13. Players will also graze opponents on a roll of 2 or higher on the d20 instead of a 10 or higher – if you character looks like it hit with your weapon, it should do some damage on anything but a roll of a 1.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    proficiency:

    rolls 6 and higher: int based arties that keep using insightful damage instead of insightful strikes and have no rogue mechanic pre, will keep doing grazin hits from 2 to 8, which depending the weapon is pretty less dps than ensuring the hit, so funny that ppl was doing it pre enhancement pass and now keep doing it(the dex needed for the ranged feats isn't enough in a class that has 2/3 bab)
    What does this mean? I know english isnt your first language, but if you or someone else could explain this to me, I would be very much appreciative. And by explain, I mean lay it all out in plain (no offense) English, so that even I can understand it.

    The best I can figure, is that you are saying, a class with 2/3 the base attack bonus with a high dexterity stat, must strive for an even higher Dex than neccasarry for the ranged feats or else the total of the grazing hits is much less then the total of a true hit (duh?)?

    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, don't have high enough dex?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are doing something not explicitly stated, that is causing them to do much less damage?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are not maxing Dex, but instead using stat points elsewhere as they choose, and accept their own choices per damage output?

    Sorry if I come accross harsh. I don't mean to be rude. I just don't understand the criticism literaly. I guess I'm just afraid that I'm missing out on something obviously wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    What does this mean? I know english isnt your first language, but if you or someone else could explain this to me, I would be very much appreciative. And by explain, I mean lay it all out in plain (no offense) English, so that even I can understand it.

    The best I can figure, is that you are saying, a class with 2/3 the base attack bonus with a high dexterity stat, must strive for an even higher Dex than neccasarry for the ranged feats or else the total of the grazing hits is much less then the total of a true hit (duh?)?

    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, don't have high enough dex?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are doing something not explicitly stated, that is causing them to do much less damage?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are not maxing Dex, but instead using stat points elsewhere as they choose, and accept their own choices per damage output?

    Sorry if I come accross harsh. I don't mean to be rude. I just don't understand the criticism literaly. I guess I'm just afraid that I'm missing out on something obviously wrong.
    I think what he's saying is that ranged characters can't just raise dex to whatever they need for feats and consider it all that is necessary to be good with their weapon.

  16. #16
    Community Member Mindos's Avatar
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    What happens when you don't use a light weapon in the off hand?

    Does the 25% miss change still apply?

    If anyone has/can do the numbers with and without proc feats, thank you.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, don't have high enough dex?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are doing something not explicitly stated, that is causing them to do much less damage?
    Or
    So, most Arties, in your humble opinion, are not maxing Dex, but instead using stat points elsewhere as they choose, and accept their own choices per damage output?
    The way I read it, it's about using insightful damage, when switching to insightful stats would supposedly give them better overall damage, as in hitting for full (albeit reduced) damage on 6-20 instead of 9-20.

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