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  1. #41
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdrique View Post

    I pretty much got turned off from raids because of the large amount of grinding you have to do to acquire the "necessary" gear and then to watch it get outdated with each change or release. I just had a hard time keeping up with the raiding scene and for a while there was the "elitist" mentality that dominated the raiding scene that really turned me off, where one mistake resulted in a failure and your character was pretty much shunned from the scene.
    Sarcasm?

    Seriously ddo has the most casual friendly raids of any mmo I've played and I'd guess of any mmo if you really wanted me to make a bet on it. Unless you are running old epic or epic elite, there is virtually no gear requirement, random gen questing gear would get you thru any raid in the game. No you couldn't use korthos gear in shroud but come on. The only gear that was in anyway required was tod boots for tod. As far as one mistake wiping a raid, umm yeah no, ddo is very mistake tolerant, other games have raids where if one person dies you lose that persons dps and likely can't beat the boss down fast enough to kill them before a timer of some sort starts up, the boss gets a massive buff and wipes the party. Most games also have extremely limited ability to raise a party member while in combat. DDO you can have 90% of the party die and raise them up and recover the raid. Sorry but everything you just said is in your head only because it sure isn't part of the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    As someone who actually thinks this and the black abbot are two of the better raids in the game in terms of bosses that are not Generic clones of other mobs. What precisely did you not like about this raid? And I'm not interested in "the run to get there is too long through the wilderness area" I mean the actual raid and the boss fight itself.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Fighting for real raid bosses instead of the bag of hp we call a raid boss now.

    I liked lob for my part, the only part I didn't like was the kiting, if you have spawns in a raid fight they should need to be killed not lead in circles.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I liked lob for my part, the only part I didn't like was the kiting, if you have spawns in a raid fight they should need to be killed not lead in circles.
    Last time I ran this as far as I know the mobs that spawn on the final part are limited meaning you can kill them all and they will not spawn any further.

    Might have to run this again to see if it is still true or not. Unless you mean "dog kiting" which I am not a fan of either same with shadow kiting in ToD.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Has ran out of snarky things to say in this thread for a signature.......for now

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  3. #43
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    Last time I ran this as far as I know the mobs that spawn on the final part are limited meaning you can kill them all and they will not spawn any further.

    Might have to run this again to see if it is still true or not. Unless you mean "dog kiting" which I am not a fan of either same with shadow kiting in ToD.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Has ran out of snarky things to say in this thread for a signature.......for now
    Yeah meant the dogs.

  4. #44
    neck deep member Powskier's Avatar
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    Default really now... wiki is a lazy optional ?

    [QUOTE=Ausdoerrt;5119821]If you *have* to read the wiki, then how did wiki get written in the first place? You see, someone had to run it first and write the guides.

    Wiki isn't a requirement, it's an easy button - wonderful at times, unnecessary at others - but just because you're too lazy to figure something out yourself, doesn't mean stuff's "too hard". Spending time while learning a tricky puzzle or trying to find ways to make a hard quest easier is also fun for many people.



    to say players ,can experiment ,through All Raids is ludacrist...yea figure out by experimenting in the shroud,or caught in th eweb(u guess the battle sequences?)....get off your highhorse and wake up.Wiki is necessary Raid tool ,at least on 1st run through. ..unless you have other players helpin you w / info. Puzzles are cool,they are not an issue.

  5. #45
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrtigo View Post
    As someone who actually thinks this and the black abbot are two of the better raids in the game in terms of bosses that are not Generic clones of other mobs. What precisely did you not like about this raid? And I'm not interested in "the run to get there is too long through the wilderness area" I mean the actual raid and the boss fight itself.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Fighting for real raid bosses instead of the bag of hp we call a raid boss now.
    I have been traumatized, I will never run it again.

    Edit: Also read the reason.
    I told that person who said that to me I would meet them in hell and kill their soul and devour it! It is all a matter of time!
    Last edited by zDragonz; 10-02-2013 at 05:25 PM. Reason: I was even told that My sister is going to get F'd! My sister does not play this game!

  6. #46
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    I have been traumatized, I will never run it again.

    Edit: Also read the reason.
    I told that person who said that to me I would meet them in hell and kill their soul and devour it! It is all a matter of time!

  7. #47

    Default This has to be a joke

    So apparently I can't quote this correctly, but the statement that the wiki is required is crazy

    This can't be a real statement. The Wiki is necessary? No one ever beat a raid prior to the wiki being "magically" populated by what I can only guess in this fantasy wonderland the devs and quest designers and engineers.

    Every single new quest and raid in this game was beaten by players who figured it out first. The shroud/alchemical planners were populated and built because people experimented with it. The raids in this game compared to other games are beyond casual. In most other games the trash are real legitimate threats, the bosses are meant to kill players. The trash in this game for the most part are speedbumps.

    Anyways wiki is required to beat raids the first time wow I almost got in trouble at work laughing at that statement.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Is so happy the wiki and guides that appear on the forums are not made by players.
    Last edited by Vyrtigo; 10-02-2013 at 05:47 PM.

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  8. #48
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    Yes this happened and yes I said this.

    When I ever do die, I will simply use quantum mechanics and link a single particle and follow the line, find that persons soul, even if I have to wait for him to die (yes it was a he, because he used voice and did not type. A male voice indeed was heard by me), he made a threat to my sister so his soul must die. I made a threat to and I am going to stand by it and devour (his soul that is marked) it, pure and simple. What happens here is purely speculation and I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone. But it is done and it was said. I intend to make good on my promise.
    Last edited by zDragonz; 10-02-2013 at 05:47 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I liked lob for my part, the only part I didn't like was the kiting, if you have spawns in a raid fight they should need to be killed not lead in circles.
    I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one who likes to kite the dogs in LoB. It's great practice for multitasking. Are you focused enough to run around in circles for an hour without dying while paying attention to LoBster man's jump & rain of blades at the same time? Can you keep an eye on the buff in the middle and announce it to the group while kiting? Are you diligent enough to keep the party's GH & resists up at the same time? Are you bad enough dude to do all of that and dps LoBster man at the same time? And finally, are you crazy enough to do all of the above without drinking a single mnemonic because you're torcing off dogs?

    Whenever I could tell myself after a succesful completion that yes, I can do all of the above, the feeling was indescribable.

    But back to topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    to say players ,can experiment ,through All Raids is ludacrist...yea figure out by experimenting in the shroud,or caught in th eweb(u guess the battle sequences?)....get off your highhorse and wake up.Wiki is necessary Raid tool ,at least on 1st run through. ..unless you have other players helpin you w / info. Puzzles are cool,they are not an issue.
    I ran CitW the day it released with 11 other guys who knew nothing about the raid. Wiped the first run because we tried to run away with ana before fighting lolth for the very first time. Then we went in again, figured it out, and completed. Nobody read any wiki, nobody consulted any walkthrough that may have been written by that time. Then we completed it 4 more times in a row since the raid timer wasn't implemented yet.

    Same thing with FoT after the reaver's boom was implemented. Nobody seemed to know what to do with reaver's boom and forums were all about raging because FoT became "impossible". We went in, we died to thousands of points of electrical damage. Completed by the skin of our teeth. A few of us went in again just to learn about the mechanic and figured out how the boom works. Then we proceeded to crush the raid as usual.

    One does not need a wiki or explanations from other players to learn how to deal with raid mechanics if one is willing to experiment. All one needs is patience and the ability to learn from mistakes.
    Old forum names (that I can't use anymore because of forum changes): Lehmu, Kanttura.
    I play Iioi, Feira, Shrtguy Stabsalot, Hjeelmee Nao, Kesib, Eisiishai, Iioo, Iiio & Havesword Will Travel on Argonnessen.
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  10. #50
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    get off your highhorse and wake up.Wiki is necessary Raid tool ,at least on 1st run through. ..unless you have other players helpin you w / info. Puzzles are cool,they are not an issue.
    The wiki is not necessary. Plenty of people, myself included, have had to learn a raid the hard way because of insufficient information. Experimentation is a large part of the learning process and short of mind-crippling health conditions you shouldn't have a problem doing it. I'll be among the first to call out Turbine for any nonsense they try to pull, but this is simply a case where the player is trying to shift the blame away from the true source of the problem - themselves.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-02-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lehmuska View Post
    Same thing with FoT after the reaver's boom was implemented. Nobody seemed to know what to do with reaver's boom and forums were all about raging because FoT became "impossible". We went in, we died to thousands of points of electrical damage. Completed by the skin of our teeth. A few of us went in again just to learn about the mechanic and figured out how the boom works. Then we proceeded to crush the raid as usual.
    The part that still irritates me about that is if the boom was suppossed to be there from the start it's a massive bug and the update should have been delayed a week or whatever was needed to get it working right. If it was a last min addition that was only added in after the raid was live, they need to not change stuff once it's live because it just seems to me anyways to be poor form.

    /mini-rant off

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Disagree with everything you said. The raids in this game are already very casual and have very little chance of sudden death. Not focusing on loot is driving endgame players away from the game, less focus on loot will lose an entire demographic from the game, and DDO:Stormreach if I'm not mistaken released most of the raids in this game and they are the best ones in the game. The only truely terrible raid in the game is citw because it's a freaking escort quest.

    If you don't like raids fine, but quit trying to take away something from the people that do like them just because you don't want to put the effort in to get minimal gear and learn a minimal amount. DDO's raids are already super easy and super casual compared to any other mmo I've seen.

    Also the reason they don't get done more at level is that by the time you run them once and wait out the timer you are over level. That means if you want anything from them you'll be running them overlevel to get that loot since most drop rates are pretty low.
    I agree with you that raids are too casual, but I disagree they should be based around a loot grind. An endgame without PVP is just ludicrous, but if DDO is going to attempt it, it should revolve around very very tough raids. These raids will be so difficult that it will take a perfect party many months to learn and beat. These raids will require the perfect gear setup to beat, so obviously loot can't be involved, as you'll already need the best gear in the game to complete.

    Grinding loot, grinding EDs isn't endgame, it's what you do to prepare for endgame.

  13. #53
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I agree with you that raids are too casual, but I disagree they should be based around a loot grind. An endgame without PVP is just ludicrous, but if DDO is going to attempt it, it should revolve around very very tough raids. These raids will be so difficult that it will take a perfect party many months to learn and beat. These raids will require the perfect gear setup to beat, so obviously loot can't be involved, as you'll already need the best gear in the game to complete.

    Grinding loot, grinding EDs isn't endgame, it's what you do to prepare for endgame.
    its funny you say that an end game without PVP is ludicrous DDO has been doing it since it Feb 8 2006.

    answer me this:
    if these very very tough difficult to beat perfect party takes months to beat are not based on loot rewards because you already have to have all the best gear to beat the raid. what is the point of the raid?

  14. #54
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I agree with you that raids are too casual, but I disagree they should be based around a loot grind. An endgame without PVP is just ludicrous, but if DDO is going to attempt it, it should revolve around very very tough raids. These raids will be so difficult that it will take a perfect party many months to learn and beat. These raids will require the perfect gear setup to beat, so obviously loot can't be involved, as you'll already need the best gear in the game to complete.

    Grinding loot, grinding EDs isn't endgame, it's what you do to prepare for endgame.
    With no loot no one will play it, I'm sorry you failed basic psychology that people want a carrot to do things. Many players of ddo despise pvp and find games with it to be filled with 12 year olds that can't stop swearing and talking in ways that could get them a sexual harrassment lawsuit brought against them if they were older. Pvp in mmo's is filled with the most despicable excuses for human beings you will find on the internet.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    its funny you say that an end game without PVP is ludicrous DDO has been doing it since it Feb 8 2006.

    answer me this:
    if these very very tough difficult to beat perfect party takes months to beat are not based on loot rewards because you already have to have all the best gear to beat the raid. what is the point of the raid?
    DDO has never had an endgame. Ever. They've had a pointless hamster wheel loot grind. This isn't an endgame. This is busy work. If a raid gives you the loot, what again is the point of the raid? You've already beaten it. What is this loot now going to be used for? To make trivial content more trivial? If you can beat the hardest content in the game without the loot you're grinding for, then the loot is pointless. It's simply a trophy. I'd be fine with raids awarding trophies.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    With no loot no one will play it, I'm sorry you failed basic psychology that people want a carrot to do things. Many players of ddo despise pvp and find games with it to be filled with 12 year olds that can't stop swearing and talking in ways that could get them a sexual harrassment lawsuit brought against them if they were older. Pvp in mmo's is filled with the most despicable excuses for human beings you will find on the internet.
    I'm not suggesting there be more pvp in the game. I'm just being realistic. I didn't fail basic psychology. You've convinced yourself that grinding for needless loot has a point. It doesn't. You've already beaten the toughest content in the game, so the loot doesn't do anything for you. You could have not grinded for that loot and be in the same exact position; able to beat the toughest content in game.

  17. #57
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    DDO has never had an endgame. Ever. They've had a pointless hamster wheel loot grind. This isn't an endgame. This is busy work. If a raid gives you the loot, what again is the point of the raid? You've already beaten it. What is this loot now going to be used for? To make trivial content more trivial? If you can beat the hardest content in the game without the loot you're grinding for, then the loot is pointless. It's simply a trophy. I'd be fine with raids awarding trophies.
    you should try Deer Hunter Online ( I hear that game has lots of trophies )

    http://www.atari.com/buy-games/outdo...-hunter-online

  18. #58
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I'm not suggesting there be more pvp in the game. I'm just being realistic. I didn't fail basic psychology. You've convinced yourself that grinding for needless loot has a point. It doesn't. You've already beaten the toughest content in the game, so the loot doesn't do anything for you. You could have not grinded for that loot and be in the same exact position; able to beat the toughest content in game.
    It makes your character more powerful, it's the point of leveling and gearing, it's basic psychology to provide a carrot. It's why only von, citw, and fot are run regularly right now, they're the only ones with a carrot. Accept that you are odd and just don't understand it. It's ok to not get it if you are having fun but don't think that you are the norm with it because you are not.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It makes your character more powerful, it's the point of leveling and gearing, it's basic psychology to provide a carrot. It's why only von, citw, and fot are run regularly right now, they're the only ones with a carrot. Accept that you are odd and just don't understand it. It's ok to not get it if you are having fun but don't think that you are the norm with it because you are not.
    The more power has to have a point. DDO can not withstand further trivialization of the game. It is not out of the norm for loot to have a point. I get it. Everyone likes there DDO pointless grinds. You guys choose loot, I choose TRs. All I'm asking is that these grinds have a purpose, and that is content where the grind is rewarded by being only able to be beat after the grind.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanngiostr View Post
    you should try Deer Hunter Online ( I hear that game has lots of trophies )

    http://www.atari.com/buy-games/outdo...-hunter-online
    It's odd that you totally ignored all my points. In a game where the loot you grind isn't needed to complete content, it's simply a trophy. I'm sorry if that's too complex a thought.

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