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  1. #1
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Default Raids need a new direction in this game.

    Currently, I believe that raids need some kind of new direction for the future of DDO. The current raids we have:


    • Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.
    • Are NOT fun. Do you consider fun to be sudden death with no immediate explanation of who, what, when and why? Yes, I know most raids are not like that, but sudden death SUCKS. Not all raids should be bleepin rocket science, you know!
    • Are WAY too focused on loot. Loot, loot, loot, that's what it's all about! Shouldn't raids be special adventures that are fun to do and not necessarily aimed at acquiring loot? Im not against raid loot, but I am opposed to it when it is the driving force of running the majority of raids.
    • Give just about the same favor if only slightly more than quests. This tends to be a minor thing, but I believe raids should have some special sense of accomplishment that grabs the attention of the major representatives in whatever plane you reside in.


    We need a new direction for how raids are done in game. When it comes to a lot of things in DDO, they've done a lot of good new things, such as the music and questing. But there are two things Turbine does that are SO DDO:Stormreach days: Raids and Quality Assurance(I.E.: Bugs!).

    Thoughts?

    *You could count chronoscope too but I see it run for loot more often than at-level. At least its fun though!
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  2. #2
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Currently, I believe that raids need some kind of new direction for the future of DDO. The current raids we have:


    • Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.
    • Are NOT fun. Do you consider fun to be sudden death with no immediate explanation of who, what, when and why? Yes, I know most raids are not like that, but sudden death SUCKS. Not all raids should be bleepin rocket science, you know!
    • Are WAY too focused on loot. Loot, loot, loot, that's what it's all about! Shouldn't raids be special adventures that are fun to do and not necessarily aimed at acquiring loot? Im not against raid loot, but I am opposed to it when it is the driving force of running the majority of raids.
    • Give just about the same favor if only slightly more than quests. This tends to be a minor thing, but I believe raids should have some special sense of accomplishment that grabs the attention of the major representatives in whatever plane you reside in.


    We need a new direction for how raids are done in game. When it comes to a lot of things in DDO, they've done a lot of good new things, such as the music and questing. But there are two things Turbine does that are SO DDO:Stormreach days: Raids and Quality Assurance(I.E.: Bugs!).

    Thoughts?

    *You could count chronoscope too but I see it run for loot more often than at-level. At least its fun though!
    Disagree with everything you said. The raids in this game are already very casual and have very little chance of sudden death. Not focusing on loot is driving endgame players away from the game, less focus on loot will lose an entire demographic from the game, and DDO:Stormreach if I'm not mistaken released most of the raids in this game and they are the best ones in the game. The only truely terrible raid in the game is citw because it's a freaking escort quest.

    If you don't like raids fine, but quit trying to take away something from the people that do like them just because you don't want to put the effort in to get minimal gear and learn a minimal amount. DDO's raids are already super easy and super casual compared to any other mmo I've seen.

    Also the reason they don't get done more at level is that by the time you run them once and wait out the timer you are over level. That means if you want anything from them you'll be running them overlevel to get that loot since most drop rates are pretty low.

  3. #3
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    OP what is this sudden death you speak of? Did some meany make you jump for the *extra* chest in shroud and didnt tell you *not* to release? lawl.

    What is soooooooo *complicated*? The fact you have to time the deaths of the dragons with the giants in FOT? errrmmm the practice in tor not enough to give people that idea? Also ghosts of perdition and how many other quests with that mechanic? Or is it the sudden death you sometimes get in Caught in the lag........when it lags out?

    take out the loot then why will people run the raid? especially now when groups take longer to fill? I love von5 for the xp and xp is a bonus I suppose in FOT.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 10-01-2013 at 11:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Shifting the "end game' of DDO from loot acquisition to pretty much ONLY XP acquisition is what is killing DDO.

    /not signed.

  5. #5
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    The new direction they need is loot that is relevant... Can't be stressed enough, the reason no one runs raids is only three of them have loot that isn't outmoded. The best you can say about the others is that there are a couple situationally nice items in some of them.

    Chrono still has a good set bonus epic, but it's uber grindy to get, not far off of being marginalized and there's no other reason to run it.

    Abbot: Quiver for 30% striding at first level on a TR is nice and a free boots slot for GS, Vile blasphemy for SP regen clicky that's non-exclusive. I think we would see more Abbots but A) it's a massive pain to flag for and B) it's a very hard raid by DDO standards. It requires skill, and will be failed even by level 28's with best destiny when that skill doesn't clear the bar, OR the party has simple bad luck, even with exploits that had worked for a long time and marginalized a 3rd of the skill factor it's still a fair chance to wipe.

    Shrouds are becoming rare on the LFM panel, despite SP items and HP items still being best in slot, and Displacement quaterstaffs being the best way to get displacement on a non-arcane. None of these are shiny any more, you can get 50-75% of their effects on less rare and easier to get items. Things like triple pos Mauls are long since marginalized by easy peasy account bound Silver flame Maul.

    Hound: nothing just zero. Leviks used to be great AC gear, now it's meh even at level.

    VOD: nothing I can think of Tharns certainly aren't worth farming for anymore

    TOD rings aren't really worth the trouble of flagging for and the PrE tie ins are busted another unfinished system in a game that could be called "unfinished systems online" this game sometimes looks like someone with ADD is in charge of it.

    LOB and MArty: Alchemical stuff is outmoded completely unless you need a good Tower Shield, or Radiance/Blade barrier Lore... now it's only a Tower Shield... you know... for your tank that is only really needed in LOB's?...

    What they need to do is embrace what DDO is/was and market the game as the advanced MMO with the high skill ceiling. Or they need to go for broke and redesign the game to be point and click mouse movement with auto follow and Right mouse Left mouse attack with 4 specials, rock paper scissors "trinity" classes and just go all out trying to be WoW.

    They seem to now be aiming "squarely down the middle" and we all know when you try to hit two things with one missile, you're bound to miss both of them.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  6. #6
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    There's space in DDO for what the OP seems to be asking for (more 12 player quests like VON5 and Tempest's Spine), but they shouldn't come at the cost of not having epic 12-person encounters against overwhelming foes.

    Which is what DDO most needs given that Shadowfell and MOTU de facto deleted all the 'old raids' that made up the endgame prior to MOTU.
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  7. #7
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Personally, I would like to see the old raids come back into fashion, and I think it would take a combination of scaling up the difficulty and making the loot relevant. Since there is way too much old loot to update and the power curve probably needs to be slowed down anyway, I think a system where epic items from other raids can be broken down or somehow mixed into newer items might be a possible solution. For example, let's say epic items from raids x, y, and z can be combined and broken down to add a red slot to a weapon...
    Or maybe 3 epic items from different raids can be combined and broken down to make a colorless tactical augment crystal. Something like that where you don't have to update a million old items, you end up needing to run a variety of raids, and you don't pull your hair out because of having to switch up your gear yet again.

    A system like this would have to only work for epic items that drop from now on, however. People have enough old junk stored that if they are able to trade those in groups may have trouble filling.

  8. #8
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    LOB and MArty: Alchemical stuff is outmoded completely unless you need a good Tower Shield, or Radiance/Blade barrier Lore... now it's only a Tower Shield... you know... for your tank that is only really needed in LOB's?...
    I disagree with what you write about alchemical weapons. They make for great repeating xbows (for CC, for specific damage types, until you get Needle), and good second-weapons for twfers. Also, they are the only source of extra str/con/dex that some builds could find useful (afaik, I could be wrong here).

    What they need to do is embrace what DDO is/was and market the game as the advanced MMO with the high skill ceiling. Or they need to go for broke and redesign the game to be point and click mouse movement with auto follow and Right mouse Left mouse attack with 4 specials, rock paper scissors "trinity" classes and just go all out trying to be WoW.

    They seem to now be aiming "squarely down the middle" and we all know when you try to hit two things with one missile, you're bound to miss both of them.
    Hmmm...I'd be happy if they just branched out horizontally with a bunch of raids at the level cap of 30 (since they're aiming for it anyways). It would be nice if they updated a lot of the loot, too, in the old raids, or added actually challenging Epic versions with the current system of EN, EH and EE loot.

  9. #9
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    whatever solution is eventually adopted, the worst one of all would be to simply bring out a few new,lvl 30 raids.


    that would merely increase the redundancy of the older content. sure we would have new content with new shinies, but we already have some very good content that needs bringing back up to snuff.


    new raids, yes, but SOMETHING for old raids too please.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.
    How are you forming parties? It all depends on who you group with. My experience with raiding has been that guilds/user channels give a very high success rate. I've experienced and heard from other players that our guild's Epic Elite raids have been easier than pugged Epic Hard raids.


    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Are NOT fun. Do you consider fun to be sudden death with no immediate explanation of who, what, when and why? Yes, I know most raids are not like that, but sudden death SUCKS. Not all raids should be bleepin rocket science, you know!
    The only sudden deaths that I know of are caused either by carelessness or ignorance. I cannot think of a single effect or damage source that is capable of instantly killing someone that also cannot be avoided or protected against. Aside from major lag spikes, any sudden deaths are going to be your fault. Taking precautions, such as wearing deathblock, is not a difficult concept.


    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Are WAY too focused on loot. Loot, loot, loot, that's what it's all about! Shouldn't raids be special adventures that are fun to do and not necessarily aimed at acquiring loot? Im not against raid loot, but I am opposed to it when it is the driving force of running the majority of raids.
    The game is focused around character progression and gear is a very large part of that. Especially so at end game when you have little left to improve.


    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Give just about the same favor if only slightly more than quests. This tends to be a minor thing, but I believe raids should have some special sense of accomplishment that grabs the attention of the major representatives in whatever plane you reside in.
    They do have a special sense of accomplishment. The first time my guild managed to complete Epic Elite Fall of Truth within fifteen minutes we were very happy. We certainly didn't go "Oh man, this sucked, nothing special for all that effort!".
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-02-2013 at 04:34 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by relenttless View Post
    whatever solution is eventually adopted, the worst one of all would be to simply bring out a few new,lvl 30 raids.


    that would merely increase the redundancy of the older content. sure we would have new content with new shinies, but we already have some very good content that needs bringing back up to snuff.


    new raids, yes, but SOMETHING for old raids too please.
    Updating old raids sounds good to me: Epic Shroud for starters. Keep the loot as is, just add a bigger chance for larges and stat tomes and your halfway there already; add a tier 4 (ML20) so people can further raise the statbumps, extra hp etc on the various greensteel items and it gets really sweet. Oh and remove the smalls and mediums from the end reward list and just put in random loot...

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  12. #12
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    Default At level elite raids

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post

    • Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.

    I can't disagree with this more... I'm level 16 on my 5th life on Orien, running a gimpy to be 17/2/1 cleric/rogue/barbarian, and so far I've run Chrono, VoN (6 included), TS, ADQ and Reaver's Fate elite at level. All of these were pugs, some lead by me, some by other TRs. These all took place within the last month, I TR-ed in late August. Afaik, Orien is one of the least populated servers yet we still managed elite completions on each. We even ran a lvl 10-14 hard VoN teaching run which we 8-manned with 4 people new to the raid. I'm currently on a break from the game, but when I get back I fully intend to run Shroud elite at level (about a month ago we failed when Harry was at 20% in part 5), and maybe HoX, VoD and ToD as well if I don't outlevel them too quick. Btw, I'm GMT+2 time, so you can't say that it's a good timezone for playing DDO. Anyway, at level raiding in DDO is one of the few things that spices up TR-ing (and yes, I run every quest on elite at level each life, along with all explorers and some rare hunting, but even that can get boring) and several people, especially TR trains do it on a regular basis. And I repeat, all these raids were pugs, not channel runs, not guild runs.

    Krismor from Orien.
    Last edited by tiberius87; 10-02-2013 at 05:22 AM. Reason: I can haz engrish

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Currently, I believe that raids need some kind of new direction for the future of DDO. The current raids we have:

    Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.
    I think the question one would need to ask is why people run TS & VoN at level but don't run DQ or Titan and go from there. In my opinion, the reason is threefold. TS and VoN5 are either easy to flag to or don't require flagging at all, and they're easy, simple & good sources of xp, where you can pretty much grab the first 11 who hit your lfm and go complete them. Not so for DQ & titan, for example. Both have long and frustrating flagging processes (in DQ, chains of flame & ADQ, in Titan, simply finding anything in restless isles). The raids themselves aren't simple & stupid enough to motivate at-level runs, either. Heroic DQ kind of discriminates against melee who don't know what they're doing, and titan is a long puzzle raid that requires either memorization or thinking with a brain instead of HP & DPS. As for the xp portion, DQ is short and offers xp like a short quest. Building a group for it takes ages, though, so it's not even worth it from an xp point of view. Titan grants probably the most xp out of its level range, but the length of the raid and the time it takes to build a group for it makes it very bad xp/min.

    In other words: if a raid is easy to access, easy to complete at level and gives enough xp to run at level, it will get run at level.

    With this in mind, there's 2 solutions I can think of to make more people run more & different raids.
    1) Make all raids have an endgame difficulty with endgame rewards. (in other words, every raid has an epic version of itself. This epic raid must offer either great xp or raidloot worth pursuing)
    2) Make all non-endgame raids grant so much xp that not running them would be silly.

    Are NOT fun. Do you consider fun to be sudden death with no immediate explanation of who, what, when and why? Yes, I know most raids are not like that, but sudden death SUCKS. Not all raids should be bleepin rocket science, you know!
    Name one raid that has a sudden death mechanic that can't be learned & avoided after a couple runs. (Shroud pt. 4->5 transition doesn't count. Sudden death because story isn't what we're talking about here) Of course, your objection is to immediate explanations, which can be found in combat log.

    Are WAY too focused on loot. Loot, loot, loot, that's what it's all about! Shouldn't raids be special adventures that are fun to do and not necessarily aimed at acquiring loot? Im not against raid loot, but I am opposed to it when it is the driving force of running the majority of raids.
    Imagine a raid that is all that. No special raidloot that motivates people to run the raid, fun to do (for the first 5 times, maybe). Why would you step into the raid for the 20th time? how about 50th? 100th?

    Give just about the same favor if only slightly more than quests. This tends to be a minor thing, but I believe raids should have some special sense of accomplishment that grabs the attention of the major representatives in whatever plane you reside in.
    I really don't see how this would make raids more attractive. Once on elite and done.

    I can't repeat this often enough, but for this post. Raids need incentives to run. These incentives need to last for a long time in order for a raid to be run more than a handful of times. Favor won't do it. Fun won't do it. Fun factor decreases over time, favor is one & done kind of deal. Raidloot makes a raid last more then either of those 2. It's still about getting the loot and being done with the raid (exceptions exist, such as the Shroud, which offers such a vast variety of loot that it's still run after years since it was introduced), but at least getting the loot takes longer than getting the favor out of the raid. The only truly lasting incentive is xp, since TR'ing has become such a large part of the game.
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  14. #14

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    Raids are a must. Raids must have great loot, with at least enough challenge and incentives that will truly test and satisfy organized guilds.

    However not concentrating on creating more raids altogether was a very bad idea by Turbine. Guilds need engaging group content they can schedule for. Take "Raid Night" out of the weekly calendar and you REALLY hurt the efforts of guild leaders to maintain members. Take one look at Neverwinter, and entire guilds were decimated mainly because running easy content with no loot exclusivity does not work.

    It's really important that there are ample reasons to group and run 12 man content. Failing to create new challenging raids with unique loot has been a failure on the devs part and have really affected the game's re-playability.

    Paying customers work. They go to school. 30+yr old mmo vets , the D&D fans, ViPs, these folks will spend globs of money and will continue to do so over long period of time if they are having fun. But they need GROUP activities. And they need DEPTH. All these have been hallmarks of DDO, going the current mode of Zynga-easy will not help DDO in the long run.

    Guilds WILL CONTINUE to be the driving force of the DDO playerbase. Not the MeNowGeneration. Turbine needs to look back on their successes, and re-evaluate their current direction. Throw some love at the ViPs, and focus on challenge and re-playability... not accessibility.

    Here's to hoping the devs remembers what made DDO so great... group features, ability to schedule content (including raids), and engaging combat that feels truly different based on user choices and more complex than a few buttons mashing, and that character customization is MORE IMPORTANT than any other single game feature.

    THAT is what made DDO great to me...


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Have TERRIBLE scaling issues. And by that, I mostly talk about the level: Nobody in HELL that I know of raids the majority of raids near level (I.E. 3 above or below level), save for Tempests Spine and maybe heroic VoN*. Something needs to be done about that, but I wish I knew what.
    Well the last time I TR'd I ran most raids at level, posted the LFM and pugged them. It is good xp. My guildies run them while leveling. I know lots of people on Khyber run them while leveling. I had a lvl 12 toon that finally had to take lvl 14 with, all that toon was for was running titan at lvl on elite when friends were Tr'ing. I think you will find that people do run raids at level because it is great xp and there is always some piece of gear you don't have AND they are fun at level. Try putting up an LFM at level sometime you will be surprised. Even Titan will fill if you wait long enough.

    Scaling is not an issue with raids in my mind, they are supposed to be run with 12 people I don't care if they scale or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Are NOT fun. Do you consider fun to be sudden death with no immediate explanation of who, what, when and why? Yes, I know most raids are not like that, but sudden death SUCKS. Not all raids should be bleepin rocket science, you know!
    Check your combat log for the reason of death. And, yes instadeath is not fun, but it happens. None of the raids are rocket science. None. Read the wiki they are all pretty straight forward. If you don't know the raid ask someone to explain what is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    Are WAY too focused on loot. Loot, loot, loot, that's what it's all about! Shouldn't raids be special adventures that are fun to do and not necessarily aimed at acquiring loot? Im not against raid loot, but I am opposed to it when it is the driving force of running the majority of raids.[*]Give just about the same favor if only slightly more than quests. This tends to be a minor thing, but I believe raids should have some special sense of accomplishment that grabs the attention of the major representatives in whatever plane you reside in.
    The RAID is not focused on loot. The PLAYERS are focused on loot. You can't blame Turbine for that. If there is a raid with no special loot who is going to run it more than the normal 5-6X that it takes before ANY quest is boring. Quests are like all content (movies, TV shows, etc.) in that you can't repeat them over and over and not be bored with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    We need a new direction for how raids are done in game. When it comes to a lot of things in DDO, they've done a lot of good new things, such as the music and questing. But there are two things Turbine does that are SO DDO:Stormreach days: Raids and Quality Assurance(I.E.: Bugs!).
    More QA is what is needed. And less new stuff that breaks old stuff for the sake of something new only.

    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    *You could count chronoscope too but I see it run for loot more often than at-level. At least its fun though!
    Fun is subjective. I never really found Chrono to be any more "fun" than any other raid. And I never did farm it for loot for that reason, I could not be bothered to run it over and over again just for the (at the time) godly set.
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  16. #16
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Raids are a must. Raids must have great loot, with at least enough challenge and incentives that will truly test and satisfy organized guilds.

    However not concentrating on creating more raids altogether was a very bad idea by Turbine. Guilds need engaging group content they can schedule for. Take "Raid Night" out of the weekly calendar and you REALLY hurt the efforts of guild leaders to maintain members. Take one look at Neverwinter, and entire guilds were decimated mainly because running easy content with no loot exclusivity does not work.

    It's really important that there are ample reasons to group and run 12 man content. Failing to create new challenging raids with unique loot has been a failure on the devs part and have really affected the game's re-playability.

    Paying customers work. They go to school. 30+yr old mmo vets , the D&D fans, ViPs, these folks will spend globs of money and will continue to do so over long period of time if they are having fun. But they need GROUP activities. And they need DEPTH. All these have been hallmarks of DDO, going the current mode of Zynga-easy will not help DDO in the long run.

    Guilds WILL CONTINUE to be the driving force of the DDO playerbase. Not the MeNowGeneration. Turbine needs to look back on their successes, and re-evaluate their current direction. Throw some love at the ViPs, and focus on challenge and re-playability... not accessibility.

    Here's to hoping the devs remembers what made DDO so great... group features, ability to schedule content (including raids), and engaging combat that feels truly different based on user choices and more complex than a few buttons mashing, and that character customization is MORE IMPORTANT than any other single game feature.

    THAT is what made DDO great to me...
    +1 to you
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  17. #17
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Well i have these ideas see,

    1. Raid sagas...yup
    2. A new raid area with 5 new raids see. In this raid area you need to run the first 4 raids to flag for the 5th raid every time you want to run it. You collect ingredients like the shroud in each raid to build cool items..

    People can actually plan a raid night with a purpose. ssshhhhhhuuuuuuweeet.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTFM View Post
    If there is a raid with no special loot who is going to run it more than the normal 5-6X that it takes before ANY quest is boring. Quests are like all content (movies, TV shows, etc.) in that you can't repeat them over and over and not be bored with it.
    Well I do happen to know a certain guild leader who had around 280 runs of Fall of Truth before his last TRing spree... but he's more of an exception than the rule. Though in his defense I do find Fall of Truth very enjoyable. It has a lot going on at once but at the same time is not a long raid. On the other hand I hated Caught in the Web because it felt like little was happening despite the raid being so long. The only reason I would run CitW now is for gear but I would likely run FoT simply for the enjoyment.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Disagree with everything you said. The raids in this game are already very casual and have very little chance of sudden death. Not focusing on loot is driving endgame players away from the game, less focus on loot will lose an entire demographic from the game, and DDO:Stormreach if I'm not mistaken released most of the raids in this game and they are the best ones in the game. The only truely terrible raid in the game is citw because it's a freaking escort quest.

    If you don't like raids fine, but quit trying to take away something from the people that do like them just because you don't want to put the effort in to get minimal gear and learn a minimal amount. DDO's raids are already super easy and super casual compared to any other mmo I've seen.

    Also the reason they don't get done more at level is that by the time you run them once and wait out the timer you are over level. That means if you want anything from them you'll be running them overlevel to get that loot since most drop rates are pretty low.
    This.

    And:

    Raids are already a great adventure but loot is the most important factor that keeps people running them constantly.

    OP, you answered your own question: people right now don't run raids because there is no loot for them (and because they are getting old). What you suggest is drive away even more people.

    Also, there is no sudden death in any raid. If you die, you are doing it wrong. Simple. Just because you have no idea what's going on, doesn't mean that Raids are wrong.

    They are fun, they are good (we have some awesome Raids in the game: LoB, MA, FoT, VoN, ToD, Shroud, ADQ1, Titan): they don't get run because 1) loot sucks, 2) explorer areas to get to them.


    I like the Raid saga idea btw. True elite rewards (so you need to complete every raid on EE): one generic +3 Skill tome (so you can choose whatever you want), 15k Guild Renown, +5 Unbound tomes, 50 Sovereign Healing Potions, 7 Commendation of Heroism (we all know these will be used in any future raid lol). Choose one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  20. #20
    neck deep member Powskier's Avatar
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    Default would be nice to see raid updates

    most raids are worthles ,except favor. I would like to make greensteel ,but made it a bit complicated w all the friggin ingredients ,so i raid shroud and dump stuff in auction....Now w item augments ,greensteel is less important anyway..... A simple fix ,can be to drop some stat/ability tomes ,,appropriate for the lvl.....Less PUZZLES and Special Objectives ......;without specifics ...............ill say one word we shouldnt need all the fffnnn time "WIKI" .... ...if players need to read wiki to complete it,maybee you guys overthought all that Stuff .

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