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  1. #21
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightgf View Post
    [snip] Thoughts?
    1. It's an issue, but I don't think it's an issue with scaling, just an issue with outdated content. Only difference b/w quests and raids in this regard is that raids are less likely to be solo'd and take more commitment, so groups are rare. Only loot remains relevant, and so loot runs it is.

    2. Says you. Most raids I've run (and I've run most raids) ARE fun one way or another. It's mostly a matter of taste though. I also don't recall raids with "sudden death" you seem to emphasize. Otherwise, raids are intended to be challenging content that requires preparation, trial and error to succeed. Steamrolling everything would be even more boring.

    3. Different priorities for different people. Yeah, loot is a big part of it, and a reason for most people to do it - like most MMOs. Many also do it just for the fun of it as well, or to help others get the loot. It's also not the only place to get good loot, especially since MoTU, so you're not required to raid if you don't want to.

    4. I think this was, in a sense, updated with the idea of "commendations". Special accomplishment - a decent idea, though "more favor" is hardly the answer. Perhaps minor additional faction rewards for beating the raids on specific difficulty. Or better yet - expanding the campaign system, and including older raids in it.


    Therefore, I find your post/rant very subjective and suggestions misplaced. What I would suggest:

    1. Expand the campaign system. This will give additional rewards/incentive for raiding;
    2. Once we hit the new stable cap of 30, update ALL the raids to be run at cap, with appropriate changes to the loot/rewards. This will return raids to the status of end-game activity they were meant to be.

  2. #22
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    most raids are worthles ,except favor. I would like to make greensteel ,but made it a bit complicated w all the friggin ingredients ,so i raid shroud and dump stuff in auction....Now w item augments ,greensteel is less important anyway..... A simple fix ,can be to drop some stat/ability tomes ,,appropriate for the lvl.....Less PUZZLES and Special Objectives ......;without specifics ...............ill say one word we shouldnt need all the fffnnn time "WIKI" .... ...if players need to read wiki to complete it,maybee you guys overthought all that Stuff .
    Most raids are also no longer end game. As for needing the wiki, the only raid I've had to do this with was Ascension Chamber and only because it is a very unique raid. Don't even get me started on removing puzzles and special objectives. I'm one of those "insane" people who loves running the Crucible and any other quest that encourages cooperation in order to finish.

    No reason to change the game simply because one or two people are incapable of learning the very basic concepts it introduces.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-02-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powskier View Post
    most raids are worthles ,except favor. I would like to make greensteel ,but made it a bit complicated w all the friggin ingredients ,so i raid shroud and dump stuff in auction....Now w item augments ,greensteel is less important anyway..... A simple fix ,can be to drop some stat/ability tomes ,,appropriate for the lvl.....Less PUZZLES and Special Objectives ......;without specifics ...............ill say one word we shouldnt need all the fffnnn time "WIKI" .... ...if players need to read wiki to complete it,maybee you guys overthought all that Stuff .
    If you *have* to read the wiki, then how did wiki get written in the first place? You see, someone had to run it first and write the guides.

    Wiki isn't a requirement, it's an easy button - wonderful at times, unnecessary at others - but just because you're too lazy to figure something out yourself, doesn't mean stuff's "too hard". Spending time while learning a tricky puzzle or trying to find ways to make a hard quest easier is also fun for many people.

    If anything, I'd vote MORE puzzles and MORE special objectives where possible. The DDO combat system isn't quite fluid/engrossing enough to put ALL the eggs in that basket. Skill use, puzzles, and optionals is what makes this game unique compared to other MMOs.


    As for GS... If you're having trouble figuring it out with the new interface, then I have no comment or consolation to offer.

  4. #24
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I run VON and Tempest Spine every life because they are fun. I daresay, there's no loot I need from Tempest Spine.

    ADQ is fun. DQ, not quite as much the millionth time. VoN 5 is awesome - can split, can run together.

    Has anyone ever kicked back, put their feet up and said "You know what would be fun? Hound of Xoriat!"
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  5. #25
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Has anyone ever kicked back, put their feet up and said "You know what would be fun? Hound of Xoriat!"
    Sure before they raised her dr up so that fury shot couldn't burn her down in seconds.

  6. #26
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    i aint got a clue if its been said before but cant we
    saga them up somehow, that way they may get run
    even more often.
    decent end reward of course.


    your friend sil

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    They do have a special sense of accomplishment. The first time my guild managed to complete Epic Elite Fall of Truth within fifteen minutes we were very happy. We certainly didn't go "Oh man, this sucked, nothing special for all that effort!".
    Opinions vary. I absolutely should get something special for my effort. Not doing so is **** design.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Don't even get me started on removing puzzles and special objectives.
    As long as they are not required to finish a flagging quest or raid, I don't care. Non-flagging quest? Knock yourself out recreating the worst parts of OD&D/1st AD&D module design. I just wish the other parts of the adventures were as good as the non-puzzle parts of those old adventures.

    Of course, if we're going to throwback to those adventures, then we should also throwback to gold=XP.

  8. #28

    Default Raids are an interesting conundrum

    Now let me premise this with the fact that I'm not a heavy raider at all, in fact I barely raid. With that said, just because I have been playing DDO for so long, I have completed a number of raids, but I have failed more raids than I have completed. I have also led raids that have succeeded and have led raids that have failed miserably.

    I pretty much got turned off from raids because of the large amount of grinding you have to do to acquire the "necessary" gear and then to watch it get outdated with each change or release. I just had a hard time keeping up with the raiding scene and for a while there was the "elitist" mentality that dominated the raiding scene that really turned me off, where one mistake resulted in a failure and your character was pretty much shunned from the scene.

    This has changed quite a bit over years and that "elitist" mentality isn't nearly as rampant as it was 3 or 4 years ago. However, I still don't raid all that much (I will do a Shroud every once in awhile, and I have tried to get in more raids but it just hasn't happened). So why is it that I don't raid? The main reason why I don't really raid right now is that I don't see the point. By the time I would get the items I would like from a raid, they get outdated to quickly. So all of that work and time is lost. I would rather spend my time doing the TR scene, where I know I am constantly improving my character. This leads to the ultimate problem concerning raids: the loot. People don't run the old raids anymore because the loot is "substandard" but the developers need to continue to create new loot to keep the game "fresh".

    The Shroud is a unique raid in that it requires multiple runs for greensteal crafting which has uses across a wide range of levels. While the alchemical crafting and TOD ring crafting might work in similar fashions, access to those crafting mechanics is much later and their utility covers far fewer levels. It would be nice to somehow develop a method to update the older gear to current levels. Maybe somehow use the new Saga system that will upgrade old gear in one fashion or another or somehow use accomdations gathered from the CITW and FOT to somehow upgrade the older gear in one fashion or another. Something to make the older raids more desirable to run. It might make someone like me more interested in running those raids, knowing that the loot I obtained, could be upgraded later on after I finish my TR train. To me the upgraded loot shouldn't necessarily replace any new loot but be an adequate replacement for your character until you are able to get the newer loot items. Just a thought

  9. #29

    Default Raids do need a new direction

    And that direction is to find a way to get more of them in the game.

    And because this thread seems like a great place to bring this up again for the forty second time.

    RAID BOSSES NEED HELP!

    Really for the most part every raid boss in this game minus the Lord of Blades and the Black Abbot is simply a purple named version of generic mob A. and this is terrible. Can anyone tell me what exactly was so terrible about Suulomades that he was a threat to all of Stormreach? He was a horned devil and he had some exploding firebats. Woohoo I'm scared now. Every raid boss in this game should be unique they should have their own special attacks and for the love of badguys they should be a threat to players and maybe of made some plans for "healers" because I would hope the general of the devil army would of thought to himself "You know I've hit this guy for going on 10 minutes and he's not dying....maybe I'm doing something wrong?"

    Every raid boss in this game needs help from Sorjek to the Truthful One who for a long time was built up to be a legendary evil that lived for ages. I know that someone is going to post after this "But Mr. Bowser what about the new people who for whatever reason can't deal with these new raid bosses that have devastating attacks and an AI better than a ogre?" I mean really I suppose I feel bad for these players although I find it hard to believe they exist but most boss mobs have a "tell" just like our friend the Lord of Blades or the Black Abbot or even Velah the firetrap in dragons clothing. And boss "tells" have been around in video games as long as there has been a Bowser so yeah learn about them.

    I used to think maybe it was a restriction of the game till the lord of blades came out and he had attacks nothing else in the game had and a decent AI and logic to chain the things kiting him and have attacks that if not dodged or dealt with would cause havoc amongst the party. So I've seen it can be done I just hope someone at Turbine steps up and makes us a raid boss or bosses worthy of needing our Epic characters to step up to and defeat because Elminister isn't busy having "tea with the queen" or the twelve are too busy sitting in their tower making us ingredient bags

    Bowserkoopa,

    Sometimes I think it's fitting the only intelligent unique raid boss in this game is a koopa

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  10. #30
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    All the raid-bosses need are sharks with fricking laser-beams attached to their heads.

  11. #31
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    All the raid-bosses need are sharks with fricking laser-beams attached to their heads.
    You'll take your seabass and like it.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  12. #32
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    You'll take your seabass and like it.
    yet another nerf . . .

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    All the raid-bosses need are sharks with fricking laser-beams attached to their heads.
    And the loot.... ONE MILLION GOLD PIECES.... mmm mmm mmuu muuuwahhhahahah er what?
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  14. #34
    Community Member relenttless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Well I do happen to know a certain guild leader who had around 280 runs of Fall of Truth before his last TRing spree... but he's more of an exception than the rule. Though in his defense I do find Fall of Truth very enjoyable. It has a lot going on at once but at the same time is not a long raid. On the other hand I hated Caught in the Web because it felt like little was happening despite the raid being so long. The only reason I would run CitW now is for gear but I would likely run FoT simply for the enjoyment.
    once upon a time in my guild on sarlona an officer ran 2 shrouds EVERY day for about 18 months, something like 5 or600 completions on 5 or 6 toons.

    every day, same time. 7 days week.


    I can see many of you might ask why?

    it got him well known arpund the server, they were quick and easy 20 min pug runs.
    he was happy to teach first timers
    he got to know a lot of good players from bad
    no_-one in my guild ever need worry about ingrefients ever again.
    he got to recruit plenty of decent players into the guild
    he created a little static group of maybe 20 or 30 players who would usually play, they got to know each other and everyone had a lot of fun.

    raids must have decent loot, but there are a lot of other, less tangible, more peripheral reasons to run them, and why a healthy raid culture equals a healthy game
    "IM-PLO-SION: For when you just HAVE to kill every M**********R in the room"-
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    Sarlona: Mercilless, Maliciouss, Relenttless. Plus others.....

  15. #35
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    yet another nerf . . .
    I'm nerfing you now so I can give you something better later.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #36
    Community Member zDragonz's Avatar
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    I like all the raids except for LOB. This one is insane!

    The last time I ran this was 2 years ago and we failed. I was called a Leroy J. and the whole group trolled on me.

    I am afraid to run LOB.

  17. #37
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Has anyone ever kicked back, put their feet up and said "You know what would be fun? Hound of Xoriat!"
    Why yes, I did a couple hours ago. Saw a random pug forming for Elite Hound of Xoriat and joined on a whim. The run turned out to be very successful and probably ranked among the smoothest runs I have ever had in a pug for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalseFlag View Post
    Opinions vary. I absolutely should get something special for my effort. Not doing so is **** design.
    Very self-entitled attitude you have there. Though you actually do get something every time you run a quest or raid. You gain experience playing the game and thus improving your abilities. Every raid I run I become better at playing my character. As you get better you may get noticed as being good at what you do. This in turn can increase your chances of getting into better groups, a good guild, decent user channels, etc. In the long term these are more valuable than a reward you may throw away a level or two later.

    A good guild and access to good user channels are very important both for getting into content that has a very high success rate and for getting into content of higher difficulties. The LFM system is practically worthless and is only if I know with certainty that the group will succeed. Hound of Xoriat has become a joke of a raid compared to when it was end game. At end game the enemies in it could easily cause a lot of problems but now they offer little resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by relenttless View Post
    raids must have decent loot, but there are a lot of other, less tangible, more peripheral reasons to run them, and why a healthy raid culture equals a healthy game
    I continue to play this MMO for two basic reasons. First, I love the community and have made a good number of friends. Friends I enjoy working with to achieve the second reason. Second, I set goals for myself to achieve. It started with getting completionist, then moved to gear, and is now largely focused around learning to better play my favorite class.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-02-2013 at 03:47 PM.
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  18. #38
    Community Member darkly_dreaming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Has anyone ever kicked back, put their feet up and said "You know what would be fun? Hound of Xoriat!"
    Years ago I used to do guided tours of HoX three or more times a week. I think every bard on Cannith thought I was stalking them! It's still one of my favorite raids, and if I had the time now like I did then I might start doing it again.

    As for the OP however, I do disagree with most points. Raids are not run at level because few people stay at the heroic level of the raid long enough to flag and bother getting a group together to run it. Xp is so easy to aquire that I would dare say most people blow past the level of the raid in a few days. And removing the gear 'carrot' would simply reduce the number of people running the raids even more.
    Goddess, you know it baybee!
    Zealotry ~ Zealot ~ Zeal ~ Chanteuse ~ Conceit : +5 to Sexterity, Cannith
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    P.S: Besides Zealotry's voice is charming/mesmerizing and i bet she is a witch or a succubus disguised.

  19. #39

    Default So...

    Quote Originally Posted by zDragonz View Post
    I like all the raids except for LOB. This one is insane!

    The last time I ran this was 2 years ago and we failed. I was called a Leroy J. and the whole group trolled on me.

    I am afraid to run LOB.
    As someone who actually thinks this and the black abbot are two of the better raids in the game in terms of bosses that are not Generic clones of other mobs. What precisely did you not like about this raid? And I'm not interested in "the run to get there is too long through the wilderness area" I mean the actual raid and the boss fight itself.

    Bowserkoopa,

    Fighting for real raid bosses instead of the bag of hp we call a raid boss now.

    Keeper of Keenbean's Heart

  20. #40
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    I love raids. Running a raid with a group of cool people for fun is a blast. They're fine how they are set up although some higher droprates would be nice.

    The real problem is the people that are too uptight, don't know how to have fun and just treat raids like work.

    And don't expect your loot to drop and you'll never be dissapointed.

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