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  1. #141
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    What I meant is that there is no need, and especially no requirement, to have all of the destinies or the maximum number of fate points right away. There may be another way to do it that is actually fun.
    No there isn't. Leveling EDs was the dumbest most boring thing ever added to any game in the history of humanity.

    You know what's fun? Being done with it and never having to be in an off-destiny again.

    Viva la Rusted Blades!

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    No there isn't. Leveling EDs was the dumbest most boring thing ever added to any game in the history of humanity.

    You know what's fun? Being done with it and never having to be in an off-destiny again.

    Viva la Rusted Blades!
    *shrug* I guess. I don't ever specifically level EDs. I play epic stuff, and gain epic levels and ED points. Eventually, the ED is capped or I've gotten to the level on it where I can switch to another one. I figured having my rogue/arti in legendary dreadnought would be annoying on the way to shiradi, but it hasn't been bad at all. He can't take most of the abilities, since they require stuff like cleave and the like, but the extra boosts thing added on to the number of times he can do endless fusillade, which was pretty cool. And he has more hp for a while.

  3. #143
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    What I meant is that there is no need, and especially no requirement, to have all of the destinies or the maximum number of fate points right away. There may be another way to do it that is actually fun.
    The other way is to change it so fate point xp is separate and only have to level off destinies if you want something there to twist from it by unlocking it. It seems thats the preferred change that can be agreed upon by most of us. Right now, there are no fun alternatives.

  4. #144
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    The other way is to change it so fate point xp is separate and only have to level off destinies if you want something there to twist from it by unlocking it. It seems thats the preferred change that can be agreed upon by most of us. Right now, there are no fun alternatives.
    This.

    Untethering fate point XP from having to run in off destinies is long overdue. It was suggested longer than a year ago and still not acted apon.

    Even at -80% people still plow ID to level in off destinies at it is still 15k Xp - simply to get through non synergizing destinies as quickly as possible.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    The part I put in bold is the false argument I've seen so often that just isn't rational. Nobody is making anyone do anything.
    Well since nobody is making anyone play at all that seems to be self evident. I just don't understand the logic of making a game that people don't want to play though. To me a game that is fun and rewarding is a better game than one that is fun or rewarding. Having to choose between playing a character at it's maximum potential or increasing that potential makes little sense to me, sorry.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    No, apparently fate points are only useful if you can gain the maximum number of them in an afternoon of 1-minute zergs through a small selection of quests.
    Not my style. But I wouldn't be such an ass as to criticize those who do find that entertaining, myself.

    Though good luck finding enough of those one minute zergs to do any good with the "no repeat at cap" mechanic gone.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    *shrug* I guess. I don't ever specifically level EDs. I play epic stuff, and gain epic levels and ED points. Eventually, the ED is capped or I've gotten to the level on it where I can switch to another one. I figured having my rogue/arti in legendary dreadnought would be annoying on the way to shiradi, but it hasn't been bad at all. He can't take most of the abilities, since they require stuff like cleave and the like, but the extra boosts thing added on to the number of times he can do endless fusillade, which was pretty cool. And he has more hp for a while.
    Yeah and I though hernia surgery would be annoying, but they gave me some cool knit slippers, so it was all worth it.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Not my style. But I wouldn't be such an ass as to criticize those who do find that entertaining, myself.
    That's just it, though. From what I'm reading here on the forums, people don't tend to like leveling EDs nor find it entertaining. Let me be the first to say that I have no desire to dictate how anyone plays. But to play a certain way and then gripe ceaselessly about it seems a bit ... eh, I can't even think of the right word for it.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Yeah and I though hernia surgery would be annoying, but they gave me some cool knit slippers, so it was all worth it.
    I call it "finding the silver lining" or "keeping a positive outlook."

  10. #150
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    That's just it, though. From what I'm reading here on the forums, people don't tend to like leveling EDs nor find it entertaining. Let me be the first to say that I have no desire to dictate how anyone plays. But to play a certain way and then gripe ceaselessly about it seems a bit ... eh, I can't even think of the right word for it.
    Its not the leveling of EDs that people have a problem with. Its the leveling of off destinies that do absolutely nothing for your character. In order to get all the fate points so you can twist things from other destinies that actually would benefit your character, you have to almost cap through every destiny.

    Leveling through these off destinies makes your character significantly weaker, not fun and you feel limited to what difficulty you can run. Usually players don't want to feel like a wasted party slot or a burden to a group and the grind for a lot of us doesn't feel very fun which is why players either stick to norm/hard and run the better xp/min quests to hurry up and get it over with.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    I call it "finding the silver lining" or "keeping a positive outlook."
    Except Turbine is hoping to make money off of people choosing to play the game. Buying a car that doesn't work well and saying "at least it has a nice hood ornament" isn't finding a silver lining, it's getting screwed. In the same vein, game mechanics that make me have to find a silver lining to get any enjoyment just tell me I'm playing the wrong game.

  12. #152
    Community Member DeKalbSun's Avatar
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    I don't mind leveling in off Destinies. I still run the same quests I would run anyway. I may not be as powerful as I would be
    in my main Destiny, but who cares? That power is still there. I can go back to it anytime I want to remind myself how
    powerful I am when I feel the need to. I'm still playing an epic level toon that has significant power anyway. I see
    people complaining all the time how there is nothing to grind for, but when there is, people complain about the
    grind. I think of it as giving me something to work on while I'm leveling to 28 anyway, seeing as how, once you get to
    Epic levels, other than running the same quests over and over again, it gives me something else to work on.
    Mangas Geronimo (Paladin) Grocery Baggs (Ranger) Naiche Geronimo (Cleric)

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  13. #153
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Not my style. But I wouldn't be such an ass as to criticize those who do find that entertaining, myself.
    Thing is, none of them seem to find it entertaining. They come here and complain all the time.

    I don't find it fun either... I'd like the GMs to change it... What I DON'T do is do the unfun thing for hours and hours straight... I'm smarter than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  14. #154
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Thing is, none of them seem to find it entertaining. They come here and complain all the time.

    I don't find it fun either... I'd like the GMs to change it... What I DON'T do is do the unfun thing for hours and hours straight... I'm smarter than that.
    You don't get it let me explain it from a power gaming perspective, there are a few options.

    1) don't max fate points stay in your best destiny with minimal twists. (not fun you never become the best that character can be)

    2) work on off destinies slowly playing en and eh so as not to drag a group down. (not fun, you don't get to play your perferred difficulty, your character is worse off, and it takes a long time before this will change)

    3) grind out ed's rapidly back when the cap was 25, get them done in a week or so and then be able to play the way you want. (has a not fun grind, but ends in a short amount of time with a fun reward which is playing the way you want)

    So now you have three options, only one of them has any positive to it. It doesn't mean we like the grind but it does mean that having done the id, horb, grind was the least objectionable option.

  15. #155
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You don't get it let me explain it from a power gaming perspective, there are a few options.

    1) don't max fate points stay in your best destiny with minimal twists. (not fun you never become the best that character can be)

    2) work on off destinies slowly playing en and eh so as not to drag a group down. (not fun, you don't get to play your perferred difficulty, your character is worse off, and it takes a long time before this will change)

    3) grind out ed's rapidly back when the cap was 25, get them done in a week or so and then be able to play the way you want. (has a not fun grind, but ends in a short amount of time with a fun reward which is playing the way you want)

    So now you have three options, only one of them has any positive to it. It doesn't mean we like the grind but it does mean that having done the id, horb, grind was the least objectionable option.
    1 and 2 seem way worse to me. Months of being weak and terrible versus a few hours in rusted Blades, how can you even compare the two?

    Ones your EDs are done you can run nothing be EEs, it's just more fun that way.

  16. #156
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    1 and 2 seem way worse to me. Months of being weak and terrible versus a few hours in rusted Blades, how can you even compare the two?

    Ones your EDs are done you can run nothing be EEs, it's just more fun that way.
    Exactly, the grind sucked, and it was stupid that it was the best way to do it. But the pay off was well worth it.

    *edit

    not having that option available anymore makes me less likely to create a new toon, which makes me less likely to continue playing as I do like rolling alts.

  17. #157
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Exactly, the grind sucked, and it was stupid that it was the best way to do it. But the pay off was well worth it.

    *edit

    not having that option available anymore makes me less likely to create a new toon, which makes me less likely to continue playing as I do like rolling alts.
    And I'm really regretting not having it done on this guy, the one I've TR'd more than anyone.

    I'll do it, but I'm not going to enjoy it.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  18. #158
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    1 and 2 seem way worse to me. Months of being weak and terrible versus a few hours in rusted Blades, how can you even compare the two?

    Ones your EDs are done you can run nothing be EEs, it's just more fun that way.
    They cant be compared.

    Those berating players for doing the unfun thing dont realize that the current situation is players still choose the most fun thing, but it just happens to be the lesser of the three evils. Then they suggest a better way to do it that many people, even forumites who dont always agree, have been pushing for, but they get berated again for doing the unfun thing.

    The point being missed is that thing could be fun, and all that needs to happen to make it so is untether fate point XP from non synergizing destiny grinding.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Thing is, none of them seem to find it entertaining. They come here and complain all the time.

    I don't find it fun either... I'd like the GMs to change it... What I DON'T do is do the unfun thing for hours and hours straight... I'm smarter than that.
    I just know better than to try to convince people not to do something that I know they are already smarter than doing in the first place. It's like trying to describe a color to a blind person.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You don't get it let me explain it from a power gaming perspective, there are a few options.

    1) don't max fate points stay in your best destiny with minimal twists. (not fun you never become the best that character can be)

    2) work on off destinies slowly playing en and eh so as not to drag a group down. (not fun, you don't get to play your perferred difficulty, your character is worse off, and it takes a long time before this will change)

    3) grind out ed's rapidly back when the cap was 25, get them done in a week or so and then be able to play the way you want. (has a not fun grind, but ends in a short amount of time with a fun reward which is playing the way you want)

    So now you have three options, only one of them has any positive to it. It doesn't mean we like the grind but it does mean that having done the id, horb, grind was the least objectionable option.
    You missed option four, which would seem to me to be the most logical. Walk away wondering way anyone would try to sell a game that gives players a choice of three bad options.

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