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  1. #121
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    To swindle people on the AH/ASAH. it's all about the swindling.

    Sometimes I like to look at my Draconic Soul Gem and call it "my precious."
    Darn right. EH should be cancelled because the loot is too similar to the stuff I can sell for shards. People won't give me their shards if they can get something close.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  2. #122
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Darn right. EH should be cancelled because the loot is too similar to the stuff I can sell for shards. People won't give me their shards if they can get something close.
    Random loot kills EE item sales 666 times faster than EH loot.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Considering how quickly you can get to tier 4 leveling for an ability is no big deal. But the whole unlocking x tiers on one destiny to get to the other is corny. Just as corny as the idea that it's your 'fate' to unlock draconic on a fighter just to be able to twist x.

    The system is bonkers.
    The system isn't so much bonkers as Turbine seems to have gone overboard with trying to monetize game mechanics. They see some players using p2w to get past bumps and don't seem to realize that the reason many others don't has more to do with not seeing it as playing a game, than simply not seeing the bumps as being to high enough to loosen their wallets.

    So we get a system that is designed around using shears, keys and maybe even true hearts to avoid mechanics that were made purposely convoluted to support this. They want to turn "easy buttons" into "tolerable buttons" to expand the customer base on these things.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    i could go along with fate point xp while in a main destiny, but i think if you want to twist something from a different destiny you should have to level through it to unlock it. you could start earning fate point xp while still leveling to 30 and cap would give you the last fate point earned. i think this would be a positive change.
    Actually, I see no problem with fate points taking more xp than what is needed for cap as it adds another reason to keep playing there or to earn them over the course of several lives to fit the play styles of different players.

  5. #125
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    The point was that no matter what, unless you can skip destinies (which i dont like the idea of), you are likely to have to play in an off destiny at some point. And i didnt claim you asked for it, i said that you couldnt avoid playing in an off destiny, which was what you wanted to avoid.
    This is where you guys keep harping on the wrong thing. Most of us don't mind playing in off-destinies once in awhile, or even quite a bit of the time. What I mind is if I play in a capped preferred destiny I get no xp towards fate points. None. Even if I'm playing more difficult content.

    I don't live in EE. I don't mind once in awhile playing off-destinies, either to get to a specific Destiny or Tiered Twist or just to experiment. I'll just play EN or EH depending.

    But I don't like that if I join a PuG for EE and I play in a preferred destiny that is capped, I get no xp towards gaining fate points. Most of the twists that come from off-destinies are low level tiers as well. The higher tiered ones come from destinies I actually enjoyed playing.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    As ive said, i argue for the sake of argument, and because i dont like the ... uhh... color of typing people use. (would have said tone of voice, but that would be silly, now wouldnt it). Its a question of opposing people who make demands. And the thing you wanted would also have called for passing through destinies, because otherwise you would have had to go through sub-optimal destinies anyway in many cases.
    I'd be careful with that as I've been officially warned that such posting conduct is considered punishable trolling on these boards.

    As to not wanting players to be able to pass through destinies, the only reason I never see that ability happening is that they sell an item that's allows one to do just that. Otherwise it's, IMO, a rather pointless exercise in following a rather arbitrarily (well not so arbitrary if you look closely to how it's set up to get players to want to buy those keys) set path from one destiny to another.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    As to not wanting players to be able to pass through destinies, the only reason I never see that ability happening is that they sell an item that's allows one to do just that. Otherwise it's, IMO, a rather pointless exercise in following a rather arbitrarily (well not so arbitrary if you look closely to how it's set up to get players to want to buy those keys) set path from one destiny to another.
    That's part of the appeal (for Turbine) to divorce fate points from destiny levels, which is already appealing for players. Doing so would generate more store sales for keys, which are currently almost useless.

    Simple example: Wizard who wants to stay in magister and twist in energy burst, endless faith & +1 int. This requires 15 fate points.

    Under the current system, getting 15 fate points means taking every destiny to 4 with your primary destiny capped. Since you have to take every destiny to 4 anyway, there is literally zero incentive to buy keys of fate from the store. Why buy a key to hop from fatesinger to shadowdancer when you have to take fatesinger to 4 anyway?

    If fate point xp is divorced from destiny levels, now the player has 2 choices:

    1) Level draconic to 4+ for energy burst, fatesinger to 4, shadowdancer to 3, flowers to 4, unyielding to 3, exalted to 1+ for endless faith. You have now unlocked burst and int from draconic and endless faith from exalted so you can switch back to magister to level up your fate points. Eventually you'll have enough fate points to slot in the twists you've manually unlocked without spending anything in the store. However, this free path means you need to grind out around 2 million xp in off destinies.

    2) Level draconic to 4+ for energy burst, jump to fatesinger, now buy and use four keys of destiny to hop straight to exalted angel where you can level up just enough to unlock endless faith, then switch back to magister to finish grinding your fate points. You got to skip 2 million off-destiny xp for the price of four keys of destiny.

    There is no downside here. The players get a more sensible and fun system, while Turbine gets a much better store item in that people would actually have incentive to buy keys where now there is almost no incentive.

  8. #128
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The system isn't so much bonkers as Turbine seems to have gone overboard with trying to monetize game mechanics. They see some players using p2w to get past bumps and don't seem to realize that the reason many others don't has more to do with not seeing it as playing a game, than simply not seeing the bumps as being to high enough to loosen their wallets.

    So we get a system that is designed around using shears, keys and maybe even true hearts to avoid mechanics that were made purposely convoluted to support this. They want to turn "easy buttons" into "tolerable buttons" to expand the customer base on these things.
    Yeap, people are starting to see it for what it is, rather than what they wished it would turn into a few years ago when the vast majority was in full support of paying to circumvent playing.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #129
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Actually, I see no problem with fate points taking more xp than what is needed for cap as it adds another reason to keep playing there or to earn them over the course of several lives to fit the play styles of different players.
    well, level 30 should be actual end game. content in that range should be more about challenging your character and questing more for the fun of it than about still earning xp or earning anything else in character power. i can see farming for level 30 gear and i would hope that any gear that would be continuously released wouldn't outdate the previous released gear, just be more options to choose from. level 30 should be about either playing end game content, retiring your character like in PnP or TRing to do it all over again.

  10. #130
    2014 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Odd statements coming from someone who has played the game for a shorter period of time than I have.

    The problem with your statement and idea is this:
    A.)End game is where you run content with your finalized character
    B.) End game is where you farm for loot

    These statements cannot both be true.

    You have to pick which statement is the one you want. I choose A, you and others choose B. My problem with B is that there is no motivation. EE is not hard. If I'm already fully capable of beating EE, then why am I farming for loot?
    Yeah man if you say so, it's just really not evident in the things you write and stances you take. For example "finalized character" or for that matter your year old join date, and some clearly nonsensical statements about past end game, that were totally the opposite of how it really was, also at one point you seemed to think that old end game was only one raid. Among other things. So I guess if you were playing you just weren't paying much attention to what was going on.

    Anyway obviously there's nothing mutually exclusive about A and B you're just making up what we call an "arbitrary distinction" and ignoring all the other points I brought up based on it.

    End game is where you run your mostly finished character, tweak it and polish it with gear, and end game loot is hard to obtain, rare and powerful to make you motivated to keep replaying the game to obtain it. But it's also where you get to ENJOY your (hopefully) powerful build, and find out it's foibles and/or down sides etc. Really lots of things including achievements and self challenges, whole guild self challenges (faster, naked, all Caster). There's obviously no exclusionary relationship in A) and B). It is in fact how thousands of MMO's (and games of all sorts) entice people (people who want to be enticed) into continuing to play and group with friends and guilds and have fun despite the fact that their characters are mostly finished. No doubt about it it's a hamster wheel, but if the game is fun, then it's a hamster wheel THAT'S FUN that people WANT TO BE ENTICED TO PLAY with carrots like powerful and "best" loot.

    It's a game theory device generally called a "skinners box" after the behavioral experiment of the same name. and if you'd like to learn more about it or educate yourself on such things, I recommend gamasutra.com. Otherwise the rest of us are just going to go back to taking these facts for granted and you can continue to stubbornly refuse to admit what everyone else including whole industries and game design philosophies know to be true. Not going to keep going round and round on this. The sky is indeed blue and the earth is indeed spherical, and people indeed keep playing MMO's over and over when there's cool loot to obtain despite the fact that their characters are mostly finished, and indeed many of them WANT TO DO THIS.
    Last edited by IronClan; 10-03-2013 at 04:50 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    well, level 30 should be actual end game. content in that range should be more about challenging your character and questing more for the fun of it than about still earning xp or earning anything else in character power. i can see farming for level 30 gear and i would hope that any gear that would be continuously released wouldn't outdate the previous released gear, just be more options to choose from. level 30 should be about either playing end game content, retiring your character like in PnP or TRing to do it all over again.
    I, on the other hand, see end game where your character is for all intents and purposes finished, but slowly adding a little of this and that for extra flavor or utility is still possible as it gives reason to keep playing it. Not so much to add power though. IMO, while not a real good fit for this, twists seem close enough and this is more or less what I thought their purpose was when I first read about them. Little extras that one slowly gained while playing a functionally finished character.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartharok View Post
    The point was that no matter what, unless you can skip destinies (which i dont like the idea of), you are likely to have to play in an off destiny at some point. And i didnt claim you asked for it, i said that you couldnt avoid playing in an off destiny, which was what you wanted to avoid.
    I think you need to go back and re-read the comments. It sounds like you fell down a bunch of stairs drawing that conclusion.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    The system isn't so much bonkers as Turbine seems to have gone overboard with trying to monetize game mechanics. They see some players using p2w to get past bumps and don't seem to realize that the reason many others don't has more to do with not seeing it as playing a game, than simply not seeing the bumps as being to high enough to loosen their wallets.

    So we get a system that is designed around using shears, keys and maybe even true hearts to avoid mechanics that were made purposely convoluted to support this. They want to turn "easy buttons" into "tolerable buttons" to expand the customer base on these things.
    I know - it might be bonkers for me but they know what they did in sofar trying to make money out of it. Just look at the absolute scam the latest xpack is. MOTU in my humble opinion was a real xpack. Adds value, longevity and lots of features. Shadowfell adds 2 packs and a bunch of fluff. Plus the great feature of destroying all the value of named items.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I know - it might be bonkers for me but they know what they did in sofar trying to make money out of it. Just look at the absolute scam the latest xpack is. MOTU in my humble opinion was a real xpack. Adds value, longevity and lots of features. Shadowfell adds 2 packs and a bunch of fluff. Plus the great feature of destroying all the value of named items.
    I agree. Don't mind what I paid for MotU, but see Shadowfell comparable to GH and won't likely buy it till it's price reflects this.

  15. #135
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I, on the other hand, see end game where your character is for all intents and purposes finished, but slowly adding a little of this and that for extra flavor or utility is still possible as it gives reason to keep playing it. Not so much to add power though. IMO, while not a real good fit for this, twists seem close enough and this is more or less what I thought their purpose was when I first read about them. Little extras that one slowly gained while playing a functionally finished character.
    Except to earn twists you have to be in a bad destiny which means you character is no where near finished. Also letting a character be finished is counter to the point of mmos of continuous advancement.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    If that was true they wouldn't have made earning ED XP so horrible by making you play in unfun destinies, some of which are near useless. If they had designed a more fun ED system (which wouldn't have been hard) you might have had a point.
    The part I put in bold is the false argument I've seen so often that just isn't rational. Nobody is making anyone do anything.

  17. #137
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    I think you need to go back and re-read the comments. It sounds like you fell down a bunch of stairs drawing that conclusion.
    Which conclusion? The one that you cant avoid the unfun destinies? Or the one that you dont want to play in one?

    Insulting me wont make you seem smarter, quite the opposite.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Little extras that one slowly gained while playing a functionally finished character.
    No, apparently fate points are only useful if you can gain the maximum number of them in an afternoon of 1-minute zergs through a small selection of quests.

  19. #139
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkin_dude View Post
    The part I put in bold is the false argument I've seen so often that just isn't rational. Nobody is making anyone do anything.
    That's right. We don't have to play the system. Can I have my money back if I have to choose between playing in unfun off destinies or not? I don't think the cost of EDs is worth it to just play in my main destinies.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    That's right. We don't have to play the system. Can I have my money back if I have to choose between playing in unfun off destinies or not? I don't think the cost of EDs is worth it to just play in my main destinies.
    What I meant is that there is no need, and especially no requirement, to have all of the destinies or the maximum number of fate points right away. There may be another way to do it that is actually fun.

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