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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    I like a lot of these ideas.

    Some raids just need to be easier to get to after the first time there. IE the Hound and Vision of destruction. Teleport systems similar to the Stormhorn are and there quest.

    Or make the subterrane more rewarding somehow. the Subterrane and the Vale are the same level range but the subterrane seem way more difficult.
    Easy - make an epic version of both raids. For purpose of dropping comms and to upgrade to Epic through comms. Just let the upgrade work like the current EN, EH and EE version. Higher chance to drop comms and heroic item and comms to upgrade to Epic (EE should be able to drop the EN version to - sort of how FoT does it with diff settings and what version drops). Then use comms to upgrade first from EN to EH then EH to EE version.

    It's clear that a system with incremental upgrade works best. Instant gratification just breaks things.

  2. #22
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
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    There could be an optionals completion tiered xp percentage bonus similar to trap disabling, breakables, etc bonuses. The more optionals completed the higher the bonus. They could even adjust some optionals to be segmented into multiple smaller optionals to encourage their completion; ex: finding the prisoners in Chains of Flames.

  3. #23
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    There could be an optionals completion tiered xp percentage bonus similar to trap disabling, breakables, etc bonuses. The more optionals completed the higher the bonus. They could even adjust some optionals to be segmented into multiple smaller optionals to encourage their completion; ex: finding the prisoners in Chains of Flames.
    Great idea
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  4. #24
    Community Member cnynridr2's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm

    I don't think that putting in a smell the roses bonus is bad idea and those of us who zerg probably won't care since, for example, if the quest takes 35 minutes to finish and you add 15 or 20 minutes for the roses bonus xp the zergers will be 2/3 to 3/4 done with the second run already for more xp/min anyways unless the roses bonus is that huge.
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  5. #25
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    Great ideas OP. Personally I'd like to get rid of timed XP pots, replace them with 1 per quest potion that is based on roughly getting the same XP for the TP cost, but make them work per quest instead of on a timer.

    So like if people tend to get 11 quests out of a XP pot, replace this with 12 one shot pots for the same TP cost. So you could buy a "six pack" of pots to do 6 quests for the same value as a current pot that would get you through 6 quests if you zerged/farmed them.*

    Why? Because the times I've been most impatient and "elitist-like" in this game were when I had a Sovereign pot going. If a XP pot can turn me into an elitist then I can't imagine what they do to people who are ALREADY impatient and unforgiving overly self serious types

    * suggest 6 pack, 12 pack and case... um 24 pack... I mean 24 pack.

    Another idea for "easy cheap massive" improvement:

    Make one Epic Sword of Shadows like item for each of the old end game raids... 10 items or so of Artifact like power, and give them all scroll/shard/seal like epic drop rates... Possibly just boost one or two existing items up into eSoS like "artifact" power. You may or may not have liked the old epic drop rate/grind, but at least people continued to play the game back then.

    Epic VON5-6 is now the most run raid on Thelanis by my guestimation and that is crazy... but it's also a testiment to the fact that the old grind when the loot was shiny was better for the health (continued replaying) of the game. I'm actually building a build FOR epic Sword of Shadows, SO I HAVE SOMETHING TO STRIVE FOR TO KEEP PLAYING DDO.

    I love playing DDO but Turbine is NOT making it easy for me to keep doing so.
    Last edited by IronClan; 10-01-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    *Disclaimer: All statements are generalized without boging down in minutia. Assuming that there are ALWAYS exceptions that test the rule, variations, and un-stated details may be omitted for brevity. These can be assumed to be understood; without bloating my posts with preemptive coverass. [*] Seal[*] Scroll[*] Shard[*] Base Item - eSoS >200 runs

  6. #26
    Community Member mrtweakin's Avatar
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    A lot of good ideas in here. My favorite so far is adding comms to all epic raids.

    A TON could be done by simply adjusting XP in certain series. There is no shortage of threads, nor has there been in years, describing the quests with awful XP. So I suspect this will never be done.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Rakuda13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    I like a lot of these ideas.

    Some raids just need to be easier to get to after the first time there. IE the Hound and Vision of destruction. Teleport systems similar to the Stormhorn are and there quest.

    Or make the subterrane more rewarding somehow. the Subterrane and the Vale are the same level range but the subterrane seem way more difficult.
    The only thing hard about the Subterrane is people not going there,its a RAID size explorer.12 people can run around there making it a lot easier at level.

  8. #28
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    /signed

    In addition: Change bravery bonus to be the first time you run it on that difficulty rather than just the first time you run the quest. This would releive the drive most have to run it the first time on elite and would maybe open up more lfms for all those who solo now because their non-elite lfms never fill. It would also retain the bonus for everyone one who can do everything on elite. It would be new player friendly as well as they could learn the content, then try for elite later.
    This idea would be great - and also encourage players to take on quests well above their level range on the normal setting. Currently, when I get to around 14 or so, I run LOD on elite - that's tough If your idea was in place, I'd run it on normal when I was level 10 or something.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Idea 1:
    Take all the quests/raids in the game that have the lowest attendance, add 10% XP. Rinse and repeat until you have a better balance across the game.
    This is a good idea.

    /signed

    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Idea two:
    Give a bonus to players that spend extra time in a quest.
    So...I continue to play all quests at the same speed, but by starting a quest and staying logged in before I go to work or go to sleep, I can accumulate massive XP while I'm NOT playing?

    This is way too ripe for abuse. No thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Add a bonus for non hireling group size, it wouldn't have to be much, 5% per member added, so 25% max for a full group?. This would encourage grouping and that may lead to making friends and that may lead to more time playing the game.
    I don't think this is an effective idea to get people to group, and some people would abuse it via multiboxing, but I don't think it's as bad as idea #2. <shrug>

  10. #30
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    some need a whole ________ of a lot more than 10% but it'd be a start.

    Some quests even if you add a 500% bonus wouldn't have optionals that would be worth it. Also you don't want zergers in the same group with flowersniffers, the power level difference and mindset is so different that you will never get a good interaction with the two groups. I don't think this one should be done, I think it would fix nothing and potentially cause more problems if you did manage to throw the two groups together. That leaves out the pseudo exploit of ok I'm in shadow crypt I'm going to go make a sandwhich have a smoke then start so I get the full bonus.


    This would encourage multi-boxing not grouping, want to encourage grouping? Eliminate all scaling from elite and put those at a scaling of 6 people at all times.

    for old raids the sollution is simple, remove the level, wanne run titan?, be a min lv of 10 and gain full exp no mater your or the party's level.
    Timmers will block abussing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    a cap of one per hour or something so you can't just break and reform every quest.

    And too be even more evil . . . make it only for those inane public LFMs.
    With the low population? i can see the lfm's fill with 4 peeps for the same quest, refusing to join the other, trolling eachother.... fun material for the "whats wrong with the lfm"topics though

    Quote Originally Posted by patang01 View Post
    Easy - make an epic version of both raids. For purpose of dropping comms and to upgrade to Epic through comms. Just let the upgrade work like the current EN, EH and EE version. Higher chance to drop comms and heroic item and comms to upgrade to Epic (EE should be able to drop the EN version to - sort of how FoT does it with diff settings and what version drops). Then use comms to upgrade first from EN to EH then EH to EE version.

    It's clear that a system with incremental upgrade works best. Instant gratification just breaks things.
    Rumor has it that an old pack will hit epic soon, if it's the Vale, that dream will come true faster then you'll think.
    (i think it's the Vale pack because thats what they did with Gianthold, that pack was epiced already, and leaked on Lamania years ago, so did Eshroud ing)
    I personaly hope so, Vale/Hound/Vod was run alot during the high days of ddo, the days when the who list had more then 60-70 people on it, the days you couldn't log on without seeing a raid up, the days that shroud was run atleast 8 times by lfm during my playtime (about 3 hours).
    Maybe we see some good people return, maybe we'll keep those people this time instead of chassing them of with a subpar double questpack *cough "expansion" cough*

    Maybe the'll get the server merges going too, to fill up the ranks

  11. #31
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    for old raids the sollution is simple, remove the level, wanne run titan?, be a min lv of 10 and gain full exp no mater your or the party's level.
    Timmers will block abussing this.
    Timers don't matter since there are bypasses and there seems to always be people willing to sell them for plat or items. That said the only raid I can think of with enough xp to justify this would be von5. However since you say full xp no matter the parties level it means you'd have problems because you'd have say 6 pikers on lowbies and 6 people doing the work at higher level to complete. That is not a good system.

  12. #32
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So...I continue to play all quests at the same speed, but by starting a quest and staying logged in before I go to work or go to sleep, I can accumulate massive XP while I'm NOT playing?
    These comments confuse me. At most we are talking about a 25 - 50% XP bonus if you take your time to go through it. if you start a quest and go to bed/work then you will time out and get kicked out.

    If you start a quest and take a shower, you still have to finish the quest and you get the bonus for one quest. if you do this 10 times a day, you will have gotten the bonus 10 times over several hours.

    If you had just ran quests you will have gotten more XP in one hour. If you add all the time they spend finishing the quests between their breaks, they would have spent more than an hour and they would lose out on things like their XP pots timing out, their ship XP shrine timing out and so on.

    I don't see many people doing this more than, at most, once per day, it takes too much effort VS reward to make sure you are back to your KB before timeout to finish the quest.

    But for the sake of argument, let's say there are people that exploit this, they are doing the quests so slowly during their breaks that even with the bonus, they level slower than anyone just playing the game. It would take them months to get to level 20. And they have to finish the quest, so it isn't like they get to skip anything.

    Somehow an exploit that allows you to get to level 20 in months without skipping any actual quest content doesn't sound like much of an exploit to me.
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  13. #33
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I don't think this is an effective idea to get people to group, and some people would abuse it via multiboxing, but I don't think it's as bad as idea #2. <shrug>
    I multibox but mostly for access to quests you have to be flagged for. The majority of people in the game don't because it is a PITA to multibox in this game (no follow command, need to buy content for multiple accounts ETC)

    There should be a requirement that the entire party to have been in the quest (no late penalties on anyone) to get the bonus.

    I don't see many people creating multiple accounts, buying all the packs or paying for VIP for them, moving all the toons to each quest ETC, just to get an extra 5% XP. Even if they did, the dungeon scaling alone would slow them by 5% (not to mention the time it takes to run multiple toons to the next quest) to make this a negative return on time vs reward.

    Maybe with a bracelet of friends you can get close to reducing the time between quests but this wouldn't help with scaling. And you have to keep buying bracelets.
    Choler 25 Brd 2TR | Enmity 25Clr | Exasperate 20Sor | Ferocity 6Ftr 2TR | Furyous 25Art 1TR | Hiddin 20Mnk | Infuryated 6Rng 1TR | Retributive 8Dru | Vehemence 23Rog 3TRs | Vehement 10Pal 3Mnk 1Rog | Vexate 22Wiz 2TRs | Violence 28FvS Completionist 23TRs

  14. #34
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    I multibox but mostly for access to quests you have to be flagged for. The majority of people in the game don't because it is a PITA to multibox in this game (no follow command, need to buy content for multiple accounts ETC)

    There should be a requirement that the entire party to have been in the quest (no late penalties on anyone) to get the bonus.

    I don't see many people creating multiple accounts, buying all the packs or paying for VIP for them, moving all the toons to each quest ETC, just to get an extra 5% XP. Even if they did, the dungeon scaling alone would slow them by 5% (not to mention the time it takes to run multiple toons to the next quest) to make this a negative return on time vs reward.

    Maybe with a bracelet of friends you can get close to reducing the time between quests but this wouldn't help with scaling. And you have to keep buying bracelets.
    Why add even a potential exploit to the game? There are people that will figure a way to make it lucrative. The far better solution was suggested earlier, by someone else, by awarding a bonus for completing all optionals, scaled just as the Breakables and Kills are now. This at least rewards someone for playing the game instead of going rewarding them for going afk for 15 minutes, because there are quests that would make 15 minutes (for example) afk for 25% xp very lucrative. Delera's 2 comes immediately to mind. You could run it back to back and negate the initial quest ransack, and since it's zergable, you're talking about maybe an hour, maybe, for a **** ton of xp. Why do that, when you can award optional completions instead, and not just the way it is now, but for completing all of them. This goes a lot further to encouraging "flower sniffing" than allowing an "x amount of time AFK followed by zerg for 25% more xp".

  15. #35
    Community Member FURYous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlayna View Post
    Why add even a potential exploit to the game? There are people that will figure a way to make it lucrative. The far better solution was suggested earlier, by someone else, by awarding a bonus for completing all optionals, scaled just as the Breakables and Kills are now. This at least rewards someone for playing the game instead of going rewarding them for going afk for 15 minutes, because there are quests that would make 15 minutes (for example) afk for 25% xp very lucrative. Delera's 2 comes immediately to mind. You could run it back to back and negate the initial quest ransack, and since it's zergable, you're talking about maybe an hour, maybe, for a **** ton of xp. Why do that, when you can award optional completions instead, and not just the way it is now, but for completing all of them. This goes a lot further to encouraging "flower sniffing" than allowing an "x amount of time AFK followed by zerg for 25% more xp".
    Because rewarding for the optionals (a great idea btw) rewards zergers more then flower sniffers. In the event of option completion rewards you just encourage the zergers to compound the problem and only group with other zergers that know how to split up and each solo a section thus leaving the flower sniffers without a group. Shadow Crypt and Tear of Drakhan are examples of this.


    P.S. how is it a "potential exploit" if it is working as intended? the flower sniffers bonus would be time based. It just rewards you for taking your time, what you do with that extra time doesn't really matter as you cant' really get more XP per hour by using this bonus. The people who want to exploit are looking for the most return for the least effort, this doesn't qualify because it makes you stay in one quest for the entire duration.

    and if this is an exploit what do you call unlimited stones of experience that allow you to bypass 75% of the content on the way to 20? Or even more if you "exploit" it by getting XP pots and using the stones during XP boost periods?
    Last edited by FURYous; 10-02-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Because rewarding for the optionals (a great idea btw) rewards zergers more then flower sniffers. In the event of option completion rewards you just encourage the zergers to compound the problem and only group with other zergers that know how to split up and each solo a section thus leaving the flower sniffers without a group. Shadow Crypt and Tear of Drakhan are examples of this.
    So what you're saying is you hate zerging so much you want to add exploits in.

    *Not that it would in anyway shape or form stop the zerg it would just add an exploit to current mechanics.

  17. #37
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Because rewarding for the optionals (a great idea btw) rewards zergers more then flower sniffers. In the event of option completion rewards you just encourage the zergers to compound the problem and only group with other zergers that know how to split up and each solo a section thus leaving the flower sniffers without a group. Shadow Crypt and Tear of Drakhan are examples of this.


    P.S. how is it a "potential exploit" if it is working as intended? the flower sniffers bonus would be time based. It just rewards you for taking your time, what you do with that extra time doesn't really matter as you cant' really get more XP per hour by using this bonus. The people who want to exploit are looking for the most return for the least effort, this doesn't qualify because it makes you stay in one quest for the entire duration.

    and if this is an exploit what do you call unlimited stones of experience that allow you to bypass 75% of the content on the way to 20? Or even more if you "exploit" it by getting XP pots and using the stones during XP boost periods?
    It's an exploit because you don't have to do anything to get it. As proposed, you could sit AFK for x amount of time for a 25% bonus to xp. This would make xp pots so 2012. Yes, there are some quests where it wouldn't be worth it, but there would be others where it was.

  18. #38
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    So...I continue to play all quests at the same speed, but by starting a quest and staying logged in before I go to work or go to sleep, I can accumulate massive XP while I'm NOT playing?

    This is way too ripe for abuse. No thanks.
    How exactly is this ripe for abuse? It's a 25% bonus that caps out after some time... what massive gain do you get for not playing? Sure, you can enter a quest and hit the store, then come back and gain 25%, but well... that's so much slower than just zerging.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    I don't think this is an effective idea to get people to group, and some people would abuse it via multiboxing, but I don't think it's as bad as idea #2. <shrug>
    Why would it not be effective? People are already crazy about the 5% xp shrine on the ship. If you can get more xp just by inviting some people, it's a great incentive to encourage grouping. I would always open up a LFM to increase my xp; I'm sure the majority of players would too! I don't really see a problem with abuse via multiboxing. If you want to pay for multiple accounts to get a small xp bonus, just go ahead. I'd rather invite real people.

  19. #39
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FURYous View Post
    Idea Three:
    Add a bonus for non hireling group size, it wouldn't have to be much, 5% per member added, so 25% max for a full group?. This would encourage grouping and that may lead to making friends and that may lead to more time playing the game.
    Do this Devs and you may as well remove Hirelings from the game completely!

    Because those of us who use them will no longer be able to get groups together ourselves and will quit the game!


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A Better and Fairer option to ALL your Players would be to Allow a 5% XP Bonus for 3 players, 10% for 4 and 15% for 5 players.

    This way Soloers and Duoers can go on doing their things
    Soloists with Hires and Shortman Groups with Hires are ok too
    Full Groups get the same bonus whether or not the 6th man/woman/child is Real or AI!


    An Even better option that would give the Same Benefit to XP {Almost} Would be to Simply Remove The Group Death and Re-Entry Penalties whilst leaving them affecting the Person who died/re-entered!
    And of course - Removing Entirely the Hireling Death Penalty {which is way too subject to Laggy AI}.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuda13 View Post
    The only thing hard about the Subterrane is people not going there,its a RAID size explorer.12 people can run around there making it a lot easier at level.
    The subT has a few problems. It's not easily soloed due to no hirelings being allowed. It doesn't have normal quests in it. It has multiple nodes that allow the others to reset, so joining IP can be problematic.

    It simply doesn't have a lot of the functionality of other explorers due to these things as they all work against it being someplace to knock around in as a group fills or one has little time to play.

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