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Thread: BYOH Barb

  1. #1
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Default BYOH Barb

    with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
    the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

    ---EDIT added the following summary:

    for those of you coming to this thread looking for ideas on how to build a BYOH capable barb, here's a summary of the ideas raised in this thread :
    • pure Barb, chug pots. good luck.
    • pure Barb, halfling with dragonmarks or human , OS tree, have as many temp hp items as possible (demonic shield, con-opp, bodyfeeder) & chug pots.
    • 12 barb 8 arti, warforged, at early levels using the dog invis and on passive, following you & granting aura-repairs. at later levels umd scroll reconstructs.
    • 12/10 barb, 8 bard, 2 rogue or fighter. blur + displace + haste, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
    • 14 barb, 4 fvs, 2 rogue. heal with Ameliorating strike, twf for double proc chance with it, some healing spells and umd scrolling when not raged.
    • 12 barb, 4 fvs, 4 rogue. generally along the same lines as the above option, only going with helf + pally dilli for improved saves.
    • 11 barb 5 rogue 4 fvs. halfling with dragonmarks, heal while raged with Ameliorating strike, full blown acrobat (qstaff build, 25% doublestrike), some healing spells, umd and dragonmarks healing when not raged.
    • 9 barb 7 rogue 4 cleric, halfling with dragonmarks, same idea as the previous build, a little more newbie friendly (more skill points from rogue levels, cleric instead of fvs)
    • 9 barb 9 wiz 2 fighter. frenzy in vampire form
    • 8 barb 8 druid 4 fvs. winter wolf + ravager + ameliorating strike


    unless specifically stated otherwise, assume the race for the build is human for maximum heal amp.

    --- Original post:

    so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
    5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
    adding 4 fvs levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
    and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

    the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

    it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

    has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...
    Last edited by Lauf; 03-11-2014 at 07:04 PM. Reason: added intro

  2. #2
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post

    so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
    5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
    adding 4 cleric levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks..
    Yes devs, this is the state of barbarians...

  3. #3
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    what you are trying to build is not a barbarian with 9 levels of cleric and rogue. if there was a barb tree that fits what you are trying to achieve, it would be OS. your dps would be very lackluster compared to an actual barbarian so investing in Ravager or FB wouldn't make sense for increased damage when you wouldn't be really spending anytime raging. you would only have a handful of rages that last for a short time. in low level quests you could make it to each shrine and the quests are short, but in higher levels the quests are longer and the shrines more spread out. to be able to heal yourself, you cant be raged. you would be spending more time being unraged and healing yourself than to get full benefits and make the rages worth using while being raged.

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
    the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

    so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
    5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
    adding 4 cleric levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
    and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

    the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

    it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

    has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...
    Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon, this means that for me I'd probably go for helf so that you can take the faith line for the undying court and take scimi's as a faith weapon. Then probably 5 cleric for the t5 enhancements for divine power for more bab and magic backlash. Then 2 rogue for evasion and umd. The rest barb. You'd have the Ameliorating Strike to heal with, could drop out and heal scroll if needed as well as raise dead and tensor. It'd probably be pretty decent for a past life imo. I'd actually probably go fvs though instead of cleric because they have better saves.

    It probably won't feel too barb ish but I think it'd probably get a good past life, and for boss fights where you are in a group you could divine might, barb rage, etc and boost your str pretty high.

    edit*

    I'd pass on trap skills as raising int high enough might lower the rest of your stats too far, just make sure with this type of build to always take the heal skill to raise devotion and to work a devotion item into your gear so your strike is strong enough.
    Last edited by Charononus; 10-01-2013 at 08:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon, this means that for me I'd probably go for helf so that you can take the faith line for the undying court and take scimi's as a faith weapon.
    I've given it some thought, but IMO an acrobat with a bloody shadow staff would offer more in terms of both survivability and damage than using any kind faith weapon would. scimis included. only downside to that is that I'll be investing heavily not only in the warpriest tree, but also in the acrobat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I'd actually probably go fvs though instead of cleric because they have better saves.
    a very good suggestion, thank you


    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I'd pass on trap skills as raising int high enough might lower the rest of your stats too far
    no worries there, barbarians get a good deal of skill points to begin with, and 5 rogue levels more than make up for the 4 divine ones. a starting int of 12 would be enough to max heal, search, DD + a skill of choice

  6. #6
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    if there was a barb tree that fits what you are trying to achieve, it would be OS. you wouldn't be really spending anytime raging. you would be spending more time being unraged and healing yourself than to get full benefits and make the rages worth using while being raged.
    I know; the current build I have doesn't use the barbarian class very well, no argument there.
    the reason I started this thread was to see if anyone has a barbarian build that can self heal and plays more like a barbarian... as I don't relish in gutting the class just to make it fit my needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    your dps would be very lackluster compared to an actual barbarian
    I wouldn't call a tier 5 acrobat's dps very lackluster... but undoubtedly it wouldn't compare to that of a full blown raging berzerker's.
    some compromises had to be made to accommodate self healing, which is why I came here to seek advice on the matter.

  7. #7
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    I've given it some thought, but IMO an acrobat with a bloody shadow staff would offer more in terms of both survivability and damage than using any kind faith weapon would. scimis included. only downside to that is that I'll be investing heavily not only in the warpriest tree, but also in the acrobat.
    I'm not sure about that, the staff has vampirism and bodyfeeder but imo those don't scale up very well once you start getting into the sands, gh range. Going for faith weapons lets you use any faith weapon as an implement and it gives enhancement bonuses. I have a twf longsword wp at the moment since before the lr he was human, and iirc it adds 5 to the enhancement bonus and makes the etimeblade a +30 implement. The enhancment bonus just adds damage and gets a bigger implement, that extra spwr will really help boost your strike up so that you're healing to full every 15 secs when you hit it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
    I would advise against this. My acrobat used Therugic Stave starting at level 8. Then for level 12 I made a Bloody Staff of Shadow, used it for half a quest and then went back to Theurgic Stave. Bigger W for cleaves, double the critrange, 2 slots for a tiny bit of extra damage. Mobs died so much faster that the healing from the bloody staff could not compensate even for the larger amount of incoming damage from the opponents who didn't die as fast, not to mention the annoyance of having to fight longer. If you don't have Theurgic Stave then sure, the good quarterstaff are rare.

    The Lordsmarch weapons are extremely outdated, their damage wasn't upgraded when many others were.

  9. #9
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    I wouldn't call a tier 5 acrobat's dps very lackluster... but undoubtedly it wouldn't compare to that of a full blown raging berzerker's.
    some compromises had to be made to accommodate self healing, which is why I came here to seek advice on the matter.
    it would be lackluster considering a barbarian and the enhancements are focused on dps and str. an acrobat is focused with q-staff damage and dex. you would need to be a dex build which totally makes barb not an ideal choice.

    as far as the Staff of Shadow, that's 1 hp regen per hit. i am currently playing a focused acrobat right now and the Staff was nice at 12, but unreliable for good self healing when you will more than likely take on more damage than getting back hp.

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    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Did you thought about barb14/cle6? Bursts, divine healing, and restoring full health (unfortunately 10min CD).
    But honesty, I don't know if you can burst or DH while raging. BTW, 7 level of cleric gives acces to own fom and DW, but I dont remember what you lose for dropping barb from 14 to 13.


    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Well if you want to go into the warpriest tree you'll want to be using a faith weapon
    No.

    Even with full enchancements put in those, favored weapon selection is still junk, unless you're warforged.
    And you will get implement bonus only if weapon you're holding got some magic enhancing property (augment will suffice, but random augment weapons will have MUCH higher ml) [or] if you're FvS (OP mentioned only cleric). Anyway, even with implement bonus, +15 spellpower is not really worth putting down real weapon for a weapon-like object.

  11. #11
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    I would advise against this. the healing from the bloody staff could not compensate even for the larger amount of incoming damage from the opponents who didn't die as fast, not to mention the annoyance of having to fight longer.
    Running a staff build at the moment, and the amounts of sp I need to use on healing decreased drastically since switching from the Therugic Stave to the Bloody Shadow Staff... but I have both staffs (as well as a few gs ones, so figuring it out on the fly shouldn't be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    it would be lackluster considering a barbarian and the enhancements are focused on dps and str. an acrobat is focused with q-staff damage and dex. you would need to be a dex build which totally makes barb not an ideal choice.
    That's not quite accurate. Acrobat allows you to use your dex with qstaffs, but it in no way prevents you from using str. it simply expands your options.
    this means that you can make a strength based acrobat, still pick up the qstaff damage line and maintain a synergy with the barbarian rage.
    what it really boils down to (damage wise) is that a frenzied barbarian would get frenzy, death frenzy, and an additional x2 multiplier from the tier 5, while the acrobat would get +15% attack speed, +4 attack, +6 damage and +1 threat range +1 crit multiplier with qstaffs.
    I still think a full blown frenzy barb would do more damage than an acrobat, I just don't think the margin is as big as you believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    as far as the Staff of Shadow, that's 1 hp regen per hit. i am currently playing a focused acrobat right now and the Staff was nice at 12, but unreliable for good self healing when you will more than likely take on more damage than getting back hp.
    the vampiric effect isn't the main source of healing for the build, but rather an additional source of healing.
    between that, the bodyfeeder +15 temp hp & the healing smite, I hope no additional healing would be needed for most of the time, allowing me to save the dragonmarks for tight spots.



    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Going for faith weapons lets you use any faith weapon as an implement and it gives enhancement bonuses. that extra spwr will really help boost your strike up so that you're healing to full every 15 secs when you hit it.
    I completely forgot about the implement thing. still not sure faith weapons are worth it, but I'll give them a 2nd look.
    Last edited by Lauf; 10-01-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Did you thought about barb14/cle6? Bursts, divine healing, and restoring full health (unfortunately 10min CD).
    I have, but even with a full investment in meta-magics for improving bursts (empower, empower healing, maximize, quicken) they were still only healing for meager amounts when tested on lammania. So I ended up reluctantly giving up on the idea, and just went for the healing smite.

  13. #13
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post


    That's not quite accurate. Acrobat allows you to use your dex with qstaffs, but it in no way prevents you from using str. it simply expands your options.
    this means that you can make a strength based acrobat, still pick up the qstaff damage line and maintain a synergy with the barbarian rage.
    what it really boils down to (damage wise) is that a frenzied barbarian would get frenzy, death frenzy, and an additional x2 multiplier from the tier 5, while the acrobat would get +15% attack speed, +4 attack, +6 damage and +1 threat range +1 crit multiplier with qstaffs.
    I still think a full blown frenzy barb would do more damage than an acrobat, I just don't think the margin is as big as you believe.
    if you have ever played a barbarian you wouldn't think so. my main is a barb and i can tell you that the margin is considerable.

  14. #14
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    if you have ever played a barbarian you wouldn't think so.
    Having played several barbs, both to cap and at cap, and with my main well on his way to triple completionist, I guess we'll have to accept that our perceptions are different on this matter. (mind you, we are talking about the heroic levels).

    either way, the goal of this thread isn't to min/max a barb's damage, but rather to build a BYOH barb, hopefully without gutting it completely (which I'm guilty of doing... not relishing in it, just can't see a better way of achieving a similar effect within the confines of the class).

    still hoping someone has a better idea for a BYOH barb, any improvement on the one I have would be most welcome

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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Warforged 12 barbarian 8 artificer.

    Take arcanotechnician line to tier 3. Put three points into Automated Repairs

    Now you have a level 8 dog which follows you around (set on passive) which repairs you (and himself) for 4d4+1 every 6 seconds. UMD an invis scroll onto him every few minutes or so.

    Elemental weapons, flame turret, repair wands and spells for topping off. Trapfinding.

    If you take this into epics it can repair itself with recon scrolls or heal scrolls (if your amp is higher than 100% where it trumps repair). Ring of the master artificer is a good item.

    Doesnt always have to be raged, but when it is it gets +2 to critical multiplier if you take FB to tier 5 and get Focused Wrath. It gets another if you go the OC route.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauf View Post
    with the new trees no longer requiring barbs to kill themselves, I've decided to look into rolling another barb life on my main.
    the main problem being that BYOH is a must have for me.

    so far the best idea I could come up with is taking halfling for dragonmarks
    5 rogue levels for trapping skills and acrobat training (& tier 5) using a bloody staff of shadow (+5, Lesser Vampirism, Life Stealing, Bodyfeeder)
    adding 4 fvs levels to the mix for that healing smite goodness, as well as access to meta-magics to amplify the halfling dragonmarks
    and that would leave me with 11 barbarian levels

    the thing I'm wracking my brains about now is that there simply aren't enough APs to go around... after the racial tree, the warpriest and the acrobat, I'd have very few points left to pour into the barbarian trees.

    it'll still be a high-damage high-survivability build, just not sure it would "feel" anything like what you'd expect from a barbarian.

    has anyone been able to come up with a decent self healing barb build? preferably something that doesn't require you to chug pots or dismiss rage whenever you need a heal...
    I prefer the bloody cleaver to the bloody staff of shadow, but either way... it does a lot to help survival. Combined with uncanny dodge, you can even tank bosses for short bursts.

    I would suggest that you expand your plan beyond healing to include survival such as, Blur/Incorporeal/Dodge/Defensive Procs.

    In the mid-high teens, saves play a huge role in survival since casters become the primary threat and ship buffs no longer make you immune to spell damage. Consider a DD spell that would hit you for 120 cold damage. If you make the save, that becomes 60 and then ship buffs kick in and reduce that to 30. If you fail the save, the ship buff reduces that to 90. That is three times as much damage. Put simply, if you make the save then you double the value of your ship resists.

  17. #17
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    I would suggest that you expand your plan beyond healing to include survival such as, Blur/Incorporeal/Dodge/Defensive Procs.

    In the mid-high teens, saves play a huge role in survival since casters become the primary threat
    I'm counting on perma-blur + dodge from bracers of wind, incorporeal from cloak of invisibility, to be replaced at later levels by cloak of night (more dodge, too bad they no longer stack) and that's about it. I have a rad2 qstaff I can use instead of the shadow staff, blinding mobs on crits for an additional 50% miss chance. it's not as good for self healing, but I have yet to try it with the healing smite, their combo might be better overall than the shadow + smite.
    of course there are always displacement clickies + improved uncanny dodge for tight spots.
    am I forgetting anything?

    as for saves, at the moment the planner has them at 20/18/12 @ lvl 20.
    +2 ship buffs
    +3 stat item
    +5 resistance item (+10 for reflex from parasitic)
    +4 GH

    realistically looking at around 34/37/26 (or 23, depending on if I can find a slot for a wisdom item or not)

    these can obviously be pushed higher with superior parrying, shroud exceptionals etc... but assuming that I don't bend over backwards, that's what I'm looking at. what do you think?

    --- edit
    forgot to mention +6 to will saves from bard past lives, making it 32 or 29.
    Last edited by Lauf; 10-01-2013 at 02:55 PM.

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    I was thinking you could splash 7-8 wizard for zombie barb. you would still get greater rage and the zombie form + improved shrouding would enable you to still maintain a decent decent con and str bonus. You could heal with death auras and the meta magic feats would pretty much be covered by the wizard bonus feats. It looks like you would need extend, heighten, maximize and empower to make the most of the auras to heal you. I'm not sure if they stack but I've heard pale masters get like 30-60+ every 2 seconds healing from the auras even at lower levels. You would also get extra hp and a 25 prr base just from having zombie on with improved shrouding. the occult slayer prr and the ravager prr for 15 and your looking at a 40 prr base before armor comes into play. you'd easily hit 60 prr even in just medium with a 10 blue gem and a set of medium armor perhaps 70 in heavy if you sunk a feat and that's in heroic levels.

    All you would need is 12 points in int and then you could use a +4 int enhancement spell and never have to worry about casting again. I havent fleshed this idea out a alot but how I see it. zombie barb would have most of the stats gaps filled and could choose to delve into using barb rages and only heal with death auras making the frenzied barb basically a free tree or you could only use the rage spell and use sleet storm for trash and build some type of backstabbing perma blind barb. I am still really busy with my melee but there is potential to make a neg healing barb with easy up keep auras if rage doesn't turn them off.

  19. #19
    Community Member Trillea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledtyrant View Post
    I was thinking you could splash 7-8 wizard for zombie barb. you would still get greater rage and the zombie form + improved shrouding would enable you to still maintain a decent decent con and str bonus. You could heal with death auras and the meta magic feats would pretty much be covered by the wizard bonus feats. It looks like you would need extend, heighten, maximize and empower to make the most of the auras to heal you. I'm not sure if they stack but I've heard pale masters get like 30-60+ every 2 seconds healing from the auras even at lower levels. You would also get extra hp and a 25 prr base just from having zombie on with improved shrouding. the occult slayer prr and the ravager prr for 15 and your looking at a 40 prr base before armor comes into play. you'd easily hit 60 prr even in just medium with a 10 blue gem and a set of medium armor perhaps 70 in heavy if you sunk a feat and that's in heroic levels.

    All you would need is 12 points in int and then you could use a +4 int enhancement spell and never have to worry about casting again. I havent fleshed this idea out a alot but how I see it. zombie barb would have most of the stats gaps filled and could choose to delve into using barb rages and only heal with death auras making the frenzied barb basically a free tree or you could only use the rage spell and use sleet storm for trash and build some type of backstabbing perma blind barb. I am still really busy with my melee but there is potential to make a neg healing barb with easy up keep auras if rage doesn't turn them off.
    The attack and movement speed decrease for zombie form would make this completely unfun IMHO.
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  20. #20
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    you would have access to haste could make it a bit better. or you could find some way to build around vampire instead. it's a rough layout honestly I'm sure there are ways around it. the main focus is constant healing from death auras making the frenzy tree 100% free + the ability to stack a lot of temp hp due to all your con boosts.

    I don't know if the death auras stack or how high they get per tick however. I would have to find out how much they heal at 300 spell power and 20% crit chance. something very easy to make happen with empower, maximize, 20 or so ap sunk into pale master for negative amp , health , prr etc and a custom trinket with negative sp +14-15% crit chance.

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