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  1. #1
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default TR (U20) Thought

    I have two TR's and they are both sitting at level 17-18 (each holding a level). I have another TR planned. While I love the idea of TR-ing, the EXP needed simply seems excessive. I believe that most of the TR crowd has to "farm" certain quests, but that simply isn't fun for me in addition to being too time intensive. I do love this game and have played it for years. I tend to play lots of different types of builds/classes/races in order to experience the game in different ways. I also "dream" of three Druid past lives as I really love the pet classes!

    Okay, that leads me to something that I thought about yesterday. Why have the big EXP increase anymore? Given that the cap is now at 28 (and 30 at some point), we already have to play a whole lot of quests in order to get to the upper levels!

    So, is there anything "game-breaking" about just allowing the same EXP progression on 2nd, 3rd, and beyond lives? If there is a problem with this or is that simply doesn't seem acceptable, what about cutting to 5% and 10% increases per level instead of being additive.

    Essentially, I was trying answer a different question - how could Turbine bring TR-ing to the masses? I am curious as to whether this would allow more folks to TR and play the game longer as well. I couldn't think of a downside, but then again, I haven't quite capped my first TR either. Thinking about heroic TR and the impending Epic TR is simply overwhelming (I also finally got my first 25 after Wheloon was released).

    I love this game and would love to experience more of it, but the time sink can simply be overwhelming. I love running most of the quests instead of the "TR farm".

    Again, this isn't meant as any sort of "hate thread", but more of a way to think through and re-engineer part of the game for the masses!

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    One little thing.. if you run every quest on elite, you'll hit cap. Farming is an optional extra.

    Aside from that, changing TR requirements now is a slap in the face to every completionist - or triple completionist.

  3. #3
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    One little thing.. if you run every quest on elite, you'll hit cap. Farming is an optional extra.
    qft. doing a TR with a friend atm. Goal: Only do 1 quest each time on elite. So far we need to skip few quest cause we got too much xp and couldnt hold the level any more.

    if dont like to farm, just do all quest on elite.

  4. #4
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    One little thing.. if you run every quest on elite, you'll hit cap. Farming is an optional extra.

    Aside from that, changing TR requirements now is a slap in the face to every completionist - or triple completionist.
    It would be awesome to see the same people who for years posted in many feedback threads that we shouldnt care that people can now far more easily obtain equivilent or better character power that took long periods of time to farm for in the past, and anyone who does is jealous, come to the forums and hem and haw about how its not fair that they had to TR under far worse conditions. Pointing out the irony would serve up a nice steaming plate of poetic justice. It has already happened once, when those same folks carried on about how shiradi is too powerful and its not fair that they had to farm 3 wiz + 3 fvs lives and still have less power on DC casters. Of course Turbine nerfed shiradi and made DC casters more powerful again in response.

    When I pointed out a year ago that we could run every quest on elite and never have to repeat any quests, it was furiously denied by those who like to farm XP per minute. Im glad people are seeing this for how it really works nowdays that we have more quests in the 15-20 range, because I think some bad habbits were developed when we did not have that many quests in that range (when we did have to repeat quests in those levels).
    Last edited by Chai; 10-01-2013 at 09:16 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  5. #5
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    TR is a pain. Just got 3 out of my 20+ toons to make it throught their second lives. I can't sum up enough courage to go for a 3rd life.
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

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  6. #6

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    I don't mind TRing or even ETR. I only hope that they bend the XP curve and make the trip reasonable. And for pete sakes do something about off destiny leveling. If we're going to jump on a new hamster wheel, can we at least enjoy the ride?

  7. #7
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    Default Just to add a little

    ""qft. doing a TR with a friend atm. Goal: Only do 1 quest each time on elite. So far we need to skip few quest cause we got too much xp and couldnt hold the level any more.""


    Just to add to this...I reached lvl 20 by only doing quests once on elite. To be fair, I did repeat a few quests on hard or normal but not for the XP, it was just circumstance. And I too had to skip quests from having "too much" XP for my level. (and by skip, I mean I did not get the streak bonus, I still ran them)

    I suggest TR'ing if you want to and don't worry about XP. Play the quests you like and play the rest because you can and before you know it, you are lvl 20 again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    When I pointed out a year ago that we could run every quest on elite and never have to repeat any quests, it was furiously denied by those who like to farm XP per minute. Im glad people are seeing this for how it really works nowdays that we have more quests in the 15-20 range, because I think some bad habbits were developed when we did not have that many quests in that range (when we did have to repeat quests in those levels).
    I got the same reaction, and was often told to '****' when I tried to point out that there is PLENTY of experience in the game. So instead of getting mad, I proved it on Tortoisse, and said "Hey guys, look, did third life one and done elite, no repeats, only had to grind a little slayers at level 14 and 17 which could easily be changed out by doing a hard rep, but since that wasn't in my experiment perameters I didn't do it, and no xp pots either! I also didn't hold levels religiously, only until I was done with the quest level I was working on and did them all. And before vips got 10%, but I did have the 10% tomes on all my toons from motue!" And the rage I was hit with from going I believe there is plenty of xp to I KNOW FOR FACT because I just did it was insane. People really did try to shut me up about it on my server, because other people were interested that they had a choice. It was...bizarre to me. What's wrong with choice?

    There is a con to my method, it DOES take longer. I tr slower than the xp per minute crowd, and I have no hesitation pointing that out. They can and do tr faster.

    But there are also pros. I'm not bored. Grinding the same quest over and over to me isn't playing a game, it's just awful. I hate it. I have a large variety doing all the quests.

    If I actually read the quest givers text, it would probably be a good story. So story driven people would enjoy it, but I'm lazy and just click past the chatter.

    Favor - no deliberate farming necessary here, the favor just falls into my lap as I treat the adventure list thingy as a todo list.

    It made Tangleroot and sorrowdusk MUCH less painful. I dipped in and out as the levels became appropriate to mine rather than doing then in one big chunk, so the repetition inbuilt into the quests wasn't as noticeable. Threnal is sill messed upand the level order is weird so I still do that in one big, painful chunk.

    Pulled a wide variety of loot.

    Didn't have to sweat the losing the death bonus (sorry, it's not a penalty, i'ts just not a bonus earned if someone dies) so I was always nice to people in my pugs along the way, and made several rather loyal friends along the way who will do all sorts of crazy things in ddo with me if I ask. Apparently the general lack of manners and kindness has gotten so bad that if you display these things people really react to them in a positive and long standing way. Of course, being ADD, I have my moments and I'm sure there are people who caught me on bad days who'll insiste I'm the biggest ***** on the planet, but I try really hard to control it and I think most people will say I'm a generally nice turtle. : )

    Those benefits to me FAR FAR outweigh doing it faster. Especially the being kind to other players. Everyone screams about newbie attrition, and I honestly dont' believe they leave because of the game itself, but the culture in the game. I've seen what newbies have to put up with it, and it's ugly.
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

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  9. #9
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    Plus the new XP ransack mechanic has made it much less of a "grind", even if you (for example) dont have a lot of quest packs and have to repeat some content. You're no longer forced, as much, to just pick one really good quest like Shadow Crypt and pound it into the ground, you have a lot more latitude about what quests you run to finish out your level, after you hit them all on Elite for BB.

  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    there's plenty of XP for 1-25 . . . after that there just isn't. The XP in the new packs is terrible.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasHunter View Post
    Essentially, I was trying answer a different question - how could Turbine bring TR-ing to the masses? I am curious as to whether this would allow more folks to TR and play the game longer as well. I couldn't think of a downside, but then again, I haven't quite capped my first TR either. Thinking about heroic TR and the impending Epic TR is simply overwhelming (I also finally got my first 25 after Wheloon was released).
    Others have already jumped all over the "you need to grind" thing, but this really stood out to me as well. The Harbor and Marketplace aside, I generally have to look much harder to find people without wings than ones with. "The masses" already are TRing. Back when the XP needed was actually a hurdle, before Bravery Bonus, Tomes of Learning, and all of the other massive boosts that we have seen since then, TRing was something that only the dedicated players did. This just does not hold true now that it has been made so easy.

  12. #12
    Community Member CheeseMilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    there's plenty of XP for 1-25 . . . after that there just isn't. The XP in the new packs is terrible.
    Very true, but at least the new XP ransack reset system prevents you from bleeding a quest completely dry forever.

    Here's hoping for some new blood, sooner rather than later.

  13. #13
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default More (and thanks for the info)

    It's nice to hear and know that the EXP is there.

    I do think where this breaks down for me is in two specific areas (and again, just looking for good rebuttal, not hating on my specific play style). Let me see if I can phrase this a bit differently:

    1 - While I can run many elites very early on, I tend to really dislike doing so starting around level 9 (or so) unless I have a full group going. I like hard, but not elite. This is directly related to...

    2 - The overall "time" is more important than "EXP" for me. I can run more quests on hard in a typical 2-hour evening than on elite. Again, this does change if in a full group (my guild is fairly small, but fun and knowledgeable).

    Someone also mentioned running many quests that aren't "Farm" quests. Yup, I agree and do this. Sometimes it is a bit disheartening (I'll admit) when I only get 3K EXP on a low teen quest on one of my TR's though. I do ignore it, but it does "feel" bad.

    I'm still not sure it would be "game-breaking" to lower the EXP (especially on that 4.1 MIL third life!!!!!!!!) somewhat (at least).

    Again, I appreciate the rebuttal, it was nice to read the thread so far. Shoot, I even got a Troll sighting!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    I got the same reaction, and was often told to '****' when I tried to point out that there is PLENTY of experience in the game. So instead of getting mad, I proved it on Tortoisse, and said "Hey guys, look, did third life one and done elite, no repeats, only had to grind a little slayers at level 14 and 17 which could easily be changed out by doing a hard rep, but since that wasn't in my experiment perameters I didn't do it, and no xp pots either! I also didn't hold levels religiously, only until I was done with the quest level I was working on and did them all. And before vips got 10%, but I did have the 10% tomes on all my toons from motue!" And the rage I was hit with from going I believe there is plenty of xp to I KNOW FOR FACT because I just did it was insane. People really did try to shut me up about it on my server, because other people were interested that they had a choice. It was...bizarre to me. What's wrong with choice?

    There is a con to my method, it DOES take longer. I tr slower than the xp per minute crowd, and I have no hesitation pointing that out. They can and do tr faster.

    But there are also pros. I'm not bored. Grinding the same quest over and over to me isn't playing a game, it's just awful. I hate it. I have a large variety doing all the quests.

    If I actually read the quest givers text, it would probably be a good story. So story driven people would enjoy it, but I'm lazy and just click past the chatter.

    Favor - no deliberate farming necessary here, the favor just falls into my lap as I treat the adventure list thingy as a todo list.

    It made Tangleroot and sorrowdusk MUCH less painful. I dipped in and out as the levels became appropriate to mine rather than doing then in one big chunk, so the repetition inbuilt into the quests wasn't as noticeable. Threnal is sill messed upand the level order is weird so I still do that in one big, painful chunk.

    Pulled a wide variety of loot.

    Didn't have to sweat the losing the death bonus (sorry, it's not a penalty, i'ts just not a bonus earned if someone dies) so I was always nice to people in my pugs along the way, and made several rather loyal friends along the way who will do all sorts of crazy things in ddo with me if I ask. Apparently the general lack of manners and kindness has gotten so bad that if you display these things people really react to them in a positive and long standing way. Of course, being ADD, I have my moments and I'm sure there are people who caught me on bad days who'll insiste I'm the biggest ***** on the planet, but I try really hard to control it and I think most people will say I'm a generally nice turtle. : )

    Those benefits to me FAR FAR outweigh doing it faster. Especially the being kind to other players. Everyone screams about newbie attrition, and I honestly dont' believe they leave because of the game itself, but the culture in the game. I've seen what newbies have to put up with it, and it's ugly.
    This. Says it all.

  15. #15
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    Honestly the only really bad part about TRing is 18-20. It's like the quests give less exp than 10-12 ones and you need so much more of it. To give an example, The Pit gives ~40k with streak and 5% and stuff like that (no crazy exp potion). The various crypt quests give slightly less but comparable amounts of exp. The new Forgotten Realms quests give ~15k. EtK, Prey on the Hunter are somewhere in the mid 20ks with their optionals. AFAIK, there's no 18-19 that breaks 30k unless you have pots going. Some of the new quests make going to a new wilderness zone seem like a better option, that's just sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    there's plenty of XP for 1-25 . . . after that there just isn't. The XP in the new packs is terrible.
    I'm pretty sure you mean there's plenty of exp for 1-18, some for 18, little for 19, then plenty for 20-25. With the separation between epic and heroic at 20, there's very few groups for 18-19 quests and those give so little exp for the most part.

    edit: So I don't think they should lower the exp. They should go through some of the really bad exp/min quests and bump up their base exp values, especially the ones near 18-20. If they did that it would be a big benefit to the once on elite playthroughs, and it would give the let's farm one quest a lot people more options of which quest to farm so it gets less soul-crushingly boring.
    Last edited by Mavnas; 10-02-2013 at 01:33 PM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Grosbeak07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    One little thing.. if you run every quest on elite, you'll hit cap. Farming is an optional extra.

    Aside from that, changing TR requirements now is a slap in the face to every completionist - or triple completionist.
    So what?

    I'd simply like one TR exp total. No more of this 2nd vs 3rd life stuff. No need for the artificial slow downs to get back to cap. It served a purpose, that purpose is no longer needed.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  17. #17
    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Another Good Way To Say It

    Grossbeak, that was said well I believe.

  18. #18
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    They are going to rebalance the XP curves in U20, don't forget...so those later levels will be a little less of a grind, and the earlier levels will let you get use out of more of your low-level content. I think the total XP is going to remain unchanged, though - but with Hard and then Elite BB, that makes sense. If you could do Elite BB but only need a first-life XP total, you'd be getting a level every 5 quests or so....

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