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  1. #61
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    puhlease, people will learn to toggle defensive stance.
    Honestly, I doubt it.
    I've heard so much casters crying that I dared to cast inspire recklesness on bard, and none could understand explanation that toggling DS on and off would remove it.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  2. #62
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    - CSW pots being the best in-game potions are just plain silly beyond level 12 or so. Add CCW potions or renewal type HoT potions in-game.
    - Silver Flame potions are plain ridiculous (grind and side effects). We know that the devs surely never intended to factor that old stuff in as a "what barbs should do" solution.
    - Whatever the solution, don't make it magicey-magical like a glowing heal bubble (talking bout LOTRO Champions here). That's not thematic. Best idea so far is a HoT from killing blows because it encourages correct barbarian behavior.
    - Better DR or PRR may help, that didn't scale well into epic levels so far for Barbs. (remember when lvl 20 engame had Barbarians as viable tanks for Sully, Harry, and the whole bunch?)
    - Maybe a 100% dmg bubble for up to double your hit points.

    And please note this (devs): Barbarians are iconic to DDO in so many ways. The class really drives like a Ferrari out the door and most new users (who haven't yet discovered the "Barbs stink" attitudes) probably love to choose this class. Your own numbers may shed light on this. Maybe it is because the primal fighter type is a common MMO-ish class and DDO did it as well as anyone IMO...at least back in the day they did.

    Barbs are not dead, but for pure barbs to fit in the evolving DDO playstyle comfortably they need help in BYOH or tankiness category IMO.
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
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  3. #63
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    I've been really impressed by the responses in this thread. It's clear that people have put some thought into this.

  4. #64
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    If you feel that barbarians need some help in this age of BYOH, how would you change them to make them more viable?
    My solution would be that when they rage they can quaff additional healing potions with some scale attached like Enhancements or Level limited.

    The idea would be that they could at some point at end game (level 20) that they have around half a second cool downs on healing potion usage.

  5. #65
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=smckelv;5119135Barbs are not dead, but for pure barbs to fit in the evolving DDO playstyle comfortably they need help in BYOH or tankiness category IMO.[/QUOTE]

    the evolving DDO play style is that every class needs to be self sufficient. people say there is something wrong with the class and try to change the core of it and twist the build around to have half the dps of a pure barbarian but still can be self sufficient with wands and scrolls and taking caster feats and twists for better survivability. the class isn't the problem. there is no need to rally for a change to be able to scroll while raged or add enhancements or EDs to gain back hp just hitting mobs, unless its vampirism. one of the problems is the insane penalty to SF pots and can only stack 10 per bag slot and that there is only CSW pots that you can buy at vendors. the only other problem is the barb DR that doesn't do squat in epics.

    so 2 things should be the focus for "problems" with the barbarian class. at the minimum there needs to be CCW pots at vendors. it would be a start but really just remove the penalty to SF pots and we are all good, or at least cut the severity in half. this alone would keep barbs in line with self sufficiency in groups, when almost every other class has 0 penalties and can dish out damage like a truck.

    DR even maxxed out through enhancements is the same as having 0 DR. the 7/ DR is part of the barb class like in PNP so no need to change there. i don't know what makes sense really from a lore standpoint and from a DDO standpoint that wouldn't be over the top. uncanny dodge already grants plus +1 starting at level 4 for a total of +6 at level 20 and its unlimited. just have to worry about the cooldown and remembering to use it while clicking on the other 12 boosts you have going. there is gear that you can get that increases PRR and can find ghostly/incorpreal/blurry gear too. there are ways to increase better defense.

  6. #66
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    I have found barbarians to be pretty gimped soloers due to the utter lack of reasonable self healing options (is the answer to go halfling?). Because of that I haven't played them much. However for the same reason I haven't played many Fighters. I do a two level fighter splash in some of my builds for the free feats, but I can't see taking a pure fighter to 20. Can someone explain why Barbarians are a ton worse off than fighters?

    I don't play pure melee 'toons very often, I am honestly curious (generally go for hybrid builds that do DPS and traps, or DPS and healing). I'm not trying to derail this thread. I completely agree that Barbarians need a boost. Even a WF or half orc barb is hard to play past very low levels in my experience.

  7. #67
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I have found barbarians to be pretty gimped soloers due to the utter lack of reasonable self healing options (is the answer to go halfling?). Because of that I haven't played them much. However for the same reason I haven't played many Fighters. I do a two level fighter splash in some of my builds for the free feats, but I can't see taking a pure fighter to 20. Can someone explain why Barbarians are a ton worse off than fighters?

    I don't play pure melee 'toons very often, I am honestly curious (generally go for hybrid builds that do DPS and traps, or DPS and healing). I'm not trying to derail this thread. I completely agree that Barbarians need a boost. Even a WF or half orc barb is hard to play past very low levels in my experience.
    Probably because people see nonraging barb as a total gimp with negative DPS (that is, healing mobs he hit), and you can't UMD scrolls/wands while raging.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  8. #68
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Theirs a simple way to fix a barb. You don't Rage.

    See? Problem solved.

    Until somehow a barb gets to use anything besides a suck pot while raging, that's my solution to a barb life. Then again with most past lives useless, even more so now, who even needs to worry about a barb life. Woo bigger problem solved!
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  9. #69
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I have found barbarians to be pretty gimped soloers due to the utter lack of reasonable self healing options (is the answer to go halfling?). Because of that I haven't played them much. However for the same reason I haven't played many Fighters. I do a two level fighter splash in some of my builds for the free feats, but I can't see taking a pure fighter to 20. Can someone explain why Barbarians are a ton worse off than fighters?

    I don't play pure melee 'toons very often, I am honestly curious (generally go for hybrid builds that do DPS and traps, or DPS and healing). I'm not trying to derail this thread. I completely agree that Barbarians need a boost. Even a WF or half orc barb is hard to play past very low levels in my experience.
    maybe its the play style. the norm in DDO is zerg and shrug off pain, but don't die. playing smarter with experienced game knowledge cuts the need for heals down considerably. we don't get cookies if we finish a quest with the best xp/min. theres nothing wrong with taking things slow or even using a hire, despite what the people say here on the forums. when a character is built up with better gear, you know what to expect around the corner and you know what to bring with a quest than speed will eventually come with it. barbarians are front line melees and don't have the push button self sufficiency like most classes have, use insta kill spells and kite through firewalls and BB so they will take damage and sometimes it will hurt. you have to have good reaction time, know when to back off, move don't just stand there swapping blows (this isn't LOTRO) and always know that the quicker you kill the less healing you will need. you must embrace the class and learn to deal with the restrictions and cons to the class. its a good class to play if you want to be up in the face of battle and desire some challenge, otherwise its best to stay in the back with the ranged/casters/divines out of harms way.

  10. #70
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    What are you talking about? Theirs a simple way to fix a barb. You don't Rage.

    See? Problem solved.

    Until somehow a barb gets to use anything besides a suck pot while raging, that's my solution to a barb life. Then again with most past lives useless, even more so now, who even needs to worry about a barb life. Woo bigger problem solved!
    a barb that doesn't rage is just another fighter, but gimpy.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    The idea would be that they could at some point at end game (level 20) that they have around half a second cool downs on healing potion usage.
    Barbarian Potion B0ng:
    AP 2/4/6
    Cooldown 4/2/0.5
    Description: In college your buddies showed you how to use an animal hide funnel and a length of gutted dried snake with both ends cut off, to efficiently chug mass quantities of healing potions... On use: "go go go" chant can be heard. 20/30/40% heal amp boost while chuging potions.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    You can't possibly design good gameplay if excitement unpredictability and unknowns are NOT ALLOWED because they confuse some players who want everything cut and dried and spelled out for them.

  12. #72
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    a barb that doesn't rage is just another fighter, but gimpy.
    isnt it more like an uncentered pure monk?

  13. #73
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    there is no need to rally for a change to be able to scroll while raged
    Second this among other things including the fact that the final barbarian solution(tm) is not about being in or out of raged. Barbarians rage, period. That's how we get our buffs. When we die, we rez and rage. (if we feel up to it, we suck a heroism potion and maybe an elemental resist)...When rage expires we rage again. (sometimes we remember to click titan's grip before) But that's the cool part of the class. Multi-class arguments are fine, but kind of beside the point as this is not "how to fix a Barbcher healbot" build.

    Consider all levels as well. Epic adds a lot, sure. And the right sorting of gear adds all the miss chances you might want. Not so much until then without custom character construction to the max. Even then, when mobs hit...we often crumple. That is when we are not killing ourselves with death frenzy to get competitive crit multipliers/raise our stun DC.

    Besides, I am thinking the devs would have a hard time messing with the old rage systems anyway. Other suggestions about better pots and defenses in general are more germane and in line with other classes BYOH nature. Or something new....and creative. Just don't mess with the feel and for gaming gods' sake don't nerf in order to help!
    Last edited by smckelv; 10-02-2013 at 02:48 AM.
    -------------------
    Anatir the Wild Man - Pure Barbarian
    Baldornix Magnus - Paladin 1st Life, Bard 2nd Life
    Cannith

  14. #74
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    How about



    All forms of rage, including spell, primal scream, skaldic rage. prevent clickies, spell casting and SLA's.
    ok to all but sla's and clickies

    i mean, face a beho: antimagic cone, i mean it's ANTIMAGIC

    so, things that u can cast: sla's and clickies

    can u use scrolls? nope, can u cast spells? nope

    can u cast cocoon? yep <-------- nerf it, i mean, face a beho, toss cocoon and swing like mad, u win

    so ALL rage forms should do the same: no spells, no scrolls, but yes to sla's and clickies

    it's funny to see like only madstone rage(removed switching to defensive stance,a general feat, amongst others) and barb rage impede the use of certain stuff, im specially thinking in cocoon, seriously XD if i can cast it in front a beho, can't understand why i can't when raged

    meanwhile i won't rage, the benefits aren't that high if u place AP smartly, the fact is that weapon bond fades if i swap weapon, so...

    can't swap weapon or i lose dps

    can't rage or i die

    haven't seen ravager yet, not sure if i will, forced by turbine, but have 2 barb lives yet and next one will have 2 rogue lvls, can be sure of that, 18 barb/2 fighter is just a pileon, no matter ur dps if u die

    also something like: when raged u drink potions unconciously (because u're raged, hate the economy, wanna sink the potion's vending one, wait...are u doing it wrong?) every sec w/o forcing cooldown, starting when below 90% hp

    because if u reduce the cd on drinking potions, u know that key will die smashed through the keyboard
    Last edited by psykopeta; 10-02-2013 at 03:40 AM.
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  15. #75
    Community Member aldror's Avatar
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    Potions, potions, Potions. Better Potions = better survival. lets see 28th level barbs = 1k+ Hit points vs. CSW potions 18-24 points of heal w/o healing amp, come on man!!!

    nuff said.....
    ...and then the smoke cleared....

    Grun WF Barbarian
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  16. #76
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    isnt it more like an uncentered pure monk?
    Not quite that bad, really, a non-raged barb is more like playing a gimped fighter, really, it's not an "Wow I am shafted" but more a "Wow this is really lack luster"

  17. #77
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Not quite that bad, really, a non-raged barb is more like playing a gimped fighter, really, it's not an "Wow I am shafted" but more a "Wow this is really lack luster"
    So.. a paladin? Or is that "shafted"?

  18. #78
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    So.. a paladin? Or is that "shafted"?
    Nah, a paladin has good saves. It's more like a fighter that didnt assign any AP and spent his free feats on things like skill focus swim.

  19. #79
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    Nah, a paladin has good saves. It's more like a fighter that didnt assign any AP and spent his free feats on things like skill focus swim.
    Paladin with dump-stat charisma, no wisdom item (for casting) and out of lay on hands?

  20. #80
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Paladin with dump-stat charisma, no wisdom item (for casting) and out of lay on hands?
    Yeah, that sounds about right.

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