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  1. #1
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Default How to fix barbarians

    In my opinion, one of two things needs to happen.

    Either A) Barbs need to do so much more damage than the other classes that it is worth it to not have access to most of the ways to self heal, or
    B) any type of rage (the rage spell, primal scream, skaldic rage) needs to make the barbarian rage passive abilities (like extended crit range and additional crit multipliers) go into effect, so that barbarians can choose to forgo the extra con and strength from a barbarian rage when cocoons and heal scrolls are necessary, but not get completely hamstrung in the process.

    If you feel that barbarians need some help in this age of BYOH, how would you change them to make them more viable?

  2. #2
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    In my opinion, one of two things needs to happen.

    Either A) Barbs need to do so much more damage than the other classes that it is worth it to not have access to most of the ways to self heal, or
    B) any type of rage (the rage spell, primal scream, skaldic rage) needs to make the barbarian rage passive abilities (like extended crit range and additional crit multipliers) go into effect, so that barbarians can choose to forgo the extra con and strength from a barbarian rage when cocoons and heal scrolls are necessary, but not get completely hamstrung in the process.

    If you feel that barbarians need some help in this age of BYOH, how would you change them to make them more viable?
    • More Feats as they are feat starved, or (auto) grant them class feats to improve survivability. Lets face it, in today's EE world, you need to be self-sufficient, high saves, and a way to heal yourself until a Divine (or bard) can take care of you. Bonus feats to saves, skill checks, and some of the other feats that work in PnP may be good candidates for "auto grants" to a barbarian.
    • Improve Barbarian DR. This was a Barbarians PRR before such a thing existed in DDO. They could shrug off damage and combined with their massive HP's made for a very powerful class.
    • Other?

    The first suggestion addresses their saves (or at least attempts to). With the number of builds splashing 2 Paladin levels (something Barbarians can't do) so they can artificially pump up their saves, this puts Bards and Barbarians at a distinct disadvantage.

    The second one addresses a core concept of the class. Something Turbine I doubt will consider but should. DR 30 or 45 would be my guess where is should be but with PRR and Dodge now working differently, those numbers are most likely too high.

  3. #3
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    How about



    All forms of rage, including spell, primal scream, skaldic rage. prevent clickies, spell casting and SLA's.

  4. #4
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    ...how would you change them to make them more viable?
    TR them into something else.

    If you give barbs access to spells/scrolls, suddenly splashing barb for rage and +2 crit range would be viable without any costs.
    Maybe.. rage gives a 2* cooldown on spells, can't use clickies, scrolls have a -20% chance to work? (Maybe -80%. It'll be viable at endgame, but not really while leveling. Because, uh.. barbs learn to rage without losing control as they age?)

    Honestly, I cannot come up with a way to make them viable, short of allowing spells/scrolls, albeit with higher cooldowns and higher UMD reqs on scrolls.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    For barbs turbine has to make dr relevant and make it stack.
    Have to give barbs more dr, what is 10 dr, thats nothing.

  6. #6
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quad damage clickies as capstone!

  7. #7
    Community Member Tocawe's Avatar
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    Just remove the disability to use clickies and other abilities when raging.

  8. #8
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tocawe View Post
    Just remove the disability to use clickies and other abilities when raging.
    I think this is the best choice. Adding extra DR or abilites to barbs is a bad idea as is giving them extra feats. You increase their power then devs will increase monster power and/or players of other classes will say they need a boost its a nasty circle.

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  9. #9
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    repeated post. can a moderator delete it, please?
    Last edited by Iriale; 10-01-2013 at 05:49 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  10. #10
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    The best way to fix the barbarians, and indirectly other classes, would be to have potions that heal more and better access to healing amplification. I think it is time to remove the penalties for silver flame potions. Today the toons have much more hit points than when first were created these potions. It is time to remove the penalties for those potions (and this could encourage the purchase of Necropolis).

    Alternatively Turbine could do that sovereign healing potions appeared in game and not just in the store. These potions are similar to the silver flame potions and would be a good alternative.

    Of course that will not happen. Store rules.

    More DR would be nice but it's time to review the healing potions that exist in the game. In DDO toons have (many) more hps than pnp, and today they have more hps than ever. It's something that deserves a review, and not only in the store (Sovereign healing potions, ahem)

    And no, a barbarian with access to magic scrolls, no. The barbarians are illiterate, and magical reading is the most complicated reading that exists. We should respect the background of the game and D&D. Better potions and that the barbarian can use them in rage--- all fixed.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  11. #11
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Totally agree on the potion suggestion. Every single part of the game got power creeped sometime (HP, damage, AC, saves, PRR/DR, DC, etc), except healing potions. Since launch in '06, the best general potion acessible is the cure serious wounds one. Raise the potion ML, givem them a longer cooldown (6-8 seconds, maybe), and make them acessible in a high level store.

    Sure, we could farm lordsmarch quests for the collectibles to trade for the new HoT potions, but it is not sustainable, and those potions end up being too awesome to use. Store is an option, and I believe not that many people actually buy consumables on store for their day-to-day game expenses (only Turbine have the numbers).

    As long as the D&D priority power is maintaned (spells > scrolls > potions), I don't see why we couldn't have a spell healing 500 HP, and a potion that heal ~300 HP at the same time.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

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    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  12. #12
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Yes, all has bigger numbers.... except healing potions. Weird.

    With U17 turbine gave us the sovereign healing potions, which are really good even in epics. But if something necessary for the game only exists in the store is bad solution. Or perhaps it would be better to say that it’s not a solution. We need better potions *in* game. I would vote to simply delete the penalties of the silver flame potions. If turbine want, they can create potions (or use the sovereign) dependent to other favors (perhaps for harpers, so they could sell better the new expansion) But a consumable can not be dependent to be purchased daily at the store.

    If the best healing potions are dependent on favor and ptp in the sense of having to buy packs... ok. I'm fine with this. But the sovereign potions can not be the solution if they are just a store thing.
    Last edited by Iriale; 10-01-2013 at 06:11 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  13. #13
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    1. Give an innate class feature that while raging, scoring a critical gives them Temp HP equal to their level x weapon's Crit Multiplier. Every time the barbarian's Rage increases, it increases the weapon's Crit Multiplier by +1 for Temp HP purposes. If not innate, possibly a low-tier (1 or 2) Ravager tree enhancement.

    2. Allow a "Class Feat" option at level 4 or something akin to that; one option increases Barb DR, the other grants a Heal over Time when you get the killing blow on an enemy, like 2 HP per level every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. At level 10, another class feat option - if you took DR before, there's another DR upgrade with some elemental res on top of it. If you took the heal-on-kill, you get an option for an immediate heal on a vorpal hit while raging. At level 16, a third class feat option, enabling more DR/ele res if you went up that line, or extending the Heal on Vorpal to Heal on Crit while raging.

    All level suggestions are completely arbitrary suggestions as I'm still waking up.

    3. At random arbitrary level, barbarians get twice as much HP from effects that boost HP or temp HP other then Con, similar to how Sorcs and Favs gain double SP from SP boosting items. This would not extend to the suggested Temp HP derived from crits.

    4. Make more quests for the Silver Flame, enough to get to the next tier of favor. Allow improved Silver Flame pots to come from there (slightly increased healing, no disabilities).
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

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  14. #14
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Yes, all has bigger numbers.... except healing potions. Weird. With U17 turbine gave us the sovereign healing potions, which are really good even in epics. But if something necessary for the game only exists in the store is bad solution. Or perhaps it would be better to say that it’s not a solution. We need better potions *in* game. I would vote to simply delete the penalties of the silver flame potions. If turbine want, they can create potions (or use the sovereign) dependent to other favors (perhaps for harpers, so they could sell better the new expansion) But a consumable can not be dependent to be purchased daily at the store.If the best healing potions are dependent on favor and ptp in the sense of having to buy packs... ok. I'm fine with this. But the sovereign potions can not be the solution if they are just a store thing.
    Actually you can buy stacks of healing potion in the "store" that have bigger numbers....finding them in game just isn't a reliable or reasonable thing.

  15. #15
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I think this is the best choice. Adding extra DR or abilites to barbs is a bad idea as is giving them extra feats. You increase their power then devs will increase monster power and/or players of other classes will say they need a boost its a nasty circle.
    The problem is that barbs have already been the victims of the circle several times. Their DR at level cap 20 was respectable, but FVS and monks got a better DR at cap. Now PRR is the new DR and barbs are out in the cold. Every barb DR point ought to include 5 stacking PRR to make barb DR special again.

  16. #16
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    Actually you can buy stacks of healing potion in the "store" that have bigger numbers....finding them in game just isn't a reliable or reasonable thing.
    It should be a reasonable thing! Turbine is abusing the store, and that can be bad for them in the long run. Something that is needed for the game (and it is time to review the healing potions, the only thing that does not have bigger numbers in years!) can not be just some of the store. At least not a consumable that needs to be renewed periodically. As I said, if they want to do it dependent to purchase adventures, I agree with that. But forcing the customer to buy POTIONS, is a very bad idea!
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    How about



    All forms of rage, including spell, primal scream, skaldic rage. prevent clickies, spell casting and SLA's.
    Id agree to this, just to watch the massive griefing fest that follows when arcane casters, bards, and anyone with primal scream are rendering their entire party useless until their rage buffs wear off. Your nerf wouldn't last a week.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #18
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    the only thing i would suggest is CCW pots at vendors. i don't see anything wrong with barbarians not being able to use heal scrolls and such while raged. it makes total sense to me. you either accept the fact and learn to play with pots if you are going to play barbarian or you play something else.

    the only class that barbarians shouldn't be dealing more damage is casters, but for burst damage it would be the ranged builds that rely on MS for their high damage. all other classes should be doing less damage. notice i say SHOULD because its not always the case in game and depends on player to player and how they built their character.

  19. #19
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    For me I'd suggest a passive regen of some kind, make it an Enhancement or something, a baby version of Fast Healing is what I'm thinking.

  20. #20
    Community Member ycheese123's Avatar
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    1. Auto grant +1 PRR per barb level. hm, maybe 1 per 2.

    2. Add a tier 2 ability to one or all of the trees: Healing amp: 4 ranks, 1AP per rank, 5%amp each (20% total).

    3. Add a tier 3 ability to all of the trees: Vampiric Weapons (passive). 2 ranks, 2AP per rank, lesser vamp(+1hp per hit) for rank 1, vamp(+1d3hp per hit) for rank 2. I dunno, that might be too nice. Perhaps it only works while raged, or just use lesser vampirism only.

    4. Fix SF pots. Make them stack in stacks of 100 PLEASE. Reduce the penalties.
    Lesser: -4 ability scores(except con), -2 saves, -5% speed. // Regular: -8 ability scores(except con), -4 saves, -10% speed.
    With all the archers in high-level content, using these and taking the -50% speed combined with cripple from arrows is just deadly. Sprint boost can be a life-saver though.

    5. Introduce some kind of potion mixing/crafting mechanic where you could use collectibles to mix your own potions... cure critical and other unique potions among them. Even have some that are weapon enchant potions, much like the Oil of incandescence which lasts for 1hr (from mabar). Making them all unbound would be cool, and they could have some new high level collectables in epics/raids for certain potions. Okay.. I'm getting off topic; perhaps I should post this in the suggestions and ideas section.
    Last edited by ycheese123; 10-01-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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