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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    How about this: While Raging, (Barb Level)% of your base weapon damage is returned as Temp HP that last for 20 secs., up to 100% of your current HP.

    Barbs should be about sustained offense...they should be all about smashing things, and as long as they keep smashing things, they should be sustained. Temp-HP-on-hit converts a portion of their offense to survivability, without making it actual healing like it would if it was a Vampirism effect. Effectively, a pure barb can negate 20% of his DPS in incoming damage; as long as he's doing 5x as much damage as enemies, he'll be fine Anything more than that goes against his "permanent" HP, which means he'll have to heal once combat is over and those temp HP expire. And since DPS scales with level, the survivability scales with level.

    That also would help ameliorate the HP cost on all those new Barb skills.

    Also, convert their DR to PRR, as that scales better and is more future-proof.
    You know, that's actually a bloody good idea.

    Though I suspect there might be problems we're both missing.

  2. #42
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    The first suggestion addresses their saves (or at least attempts to). With the number of builds splashing 2 Paladin levels (something Barbarians can't do) so they can artificially pump up their saves, this puts Bards and Barbarians at a distinct disadvantage.
    and druids.

    actually, if they could swipe something from pathfinder, a paladin pre

    Paladin of Freedom

    Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve. In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline. As reward for their righteousness, these holy champions are blessed with boons to aid them in their quests: powers to banish evil, heal the innocent, and inspire the faithful. Although their convictions might lead them into conflict with the very souls they would save, paladins weather endless challenges of faith and dark temptations, risking their lives to do right and fighting to bring about a brighter future.

    Role: Paladins of Freedom serve as beacons for their allies within the chaos of battle. While deadly opponents of evil, they can also empower goodly souls to aid in their crusades. Their magic and martial skills also make them well suited to defending others and blessing the fallen with the strength to continue fighting.

    Alignment: Chaotic good.

    Hit Die: d10.
    Class Skills

    The paladin of freedom's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

  3. #43
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    The best way to fix the barbarians, and indirectly other classes, would be to have potions that heal more and better access to healing amplification. I think it is time to remove the penalties for silver flame potions. Today the toons have much more hit points than when first were created these potions. It is time to remove the penalties for those potions (and this could encourage the purchase of Necropolis).

    Alternatively Turbine could do that sovereign healing potions appeared in game and not just in the store. These potions are similar to the silver flame potions and would be a good alternative.

    Of course that will not happen. Store rules.

    More DR would be nice but it's time to review the healing potions that exist in the game. In DDO toons have (many) more hps than pnp, and today they have more hps than ever. It's something that deserves a review, and not only in the store (Sovereign healing potions, ahem)

    And no, a barbarian with access to magic scrolls, no. The barbarians are illiterate, and magical reading is the most complicated reading that exists. We should respect the background of the game and D&D. Better potions and that the barbarian can use them in rage--- all fixed.
    I agree with all of this 100%. Barbarions don't need to use scrolls or have extra feats. In fact nothing in the class needs to be changed at all. But we do need higher level healing potions that heal for at least 300hp.

    And as far as every toon needs to be self-sufficient is a crock. D&D is meant to played as a group, with each member of that group bringing something a little different to contribute to the group. If every toon can heal itself, have massive dps and do traps then what's the point in the game really? I hate the direction the game is going in and the line of thinking that every toon has to be self-sufficient to be viable.

  4. #44
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    The problem is that barbs have already been the victims of the circle several times. Their DR at level cap 20 was respectable, but FVS and monks got a better DR at cap. Now PRR is the new DR and barbs are out in the cold. Every barb DR point ought to include 5 stacking PRR to make barb DR special again.
    Totally agree. I dont think we should remove item use restrictions while raged...its just not barby. And we have enough cocoons

    I think dr/prr upgrade along with regeneration is the way to go. Why shouldnt a barb regenerate quickly? Make fast healing from fury only work while raged or like an action boost or something and make it every few seconds instead of every minute. Enough that a barb is able to feel self sufficient

    I

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Make fast healing from fury only work while raged or like an action boost or something and make it every few seconds instead of every minute.
    I was with you right up until this point. All of my characters (Except my Palemaster and my Hagglebard) have Fast Healing.

  6. #46
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel_666 View Post
    I was with you right up until this point. All of my characters (Except my Palemaster and my Hagglebard) have Fast Healing.
    Ha...well id rather regeneration was an autogranted class feat that increases every few levels so its useful in heroic too, but im trying to find something easy to implement

  7. #47
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    You fix barbarians the same way you fix your dog, so it can't breed any more.

    (Incidentally giving barbarians a heal over time activated on kill like a druid wolf companion gets would be cool, and might go a long way towards helping.)
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  8. #48
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    I agree with all of this 100%. Barbarions don't need to use scrolls or have extra feats. In fact nothing in the class needs to be changed at all. But we do need higher level healing potions that heal for at least 300hp.

    And as far as every toon needs to be self-sufficient is a crock. D&D is meant to played as a group, with each member of that group bringing something a little different to contribute to the group. If every toon can heal itself, have massive dps and do traps then what's the point in the game really? I hate the direction the game is going in and the line of thinking that every toon has to be self-sufficient to be viable.
    That ship has already sailed when they gave self healing as good as divine healing to arcane casters. This incarnation of D&D that is called DDO gives self sufficiency to every single class now save for one, and there are quite a few hold outs who are being very contradictory about wanting to deny barbarians a seat at the table, but the minute we start talking about taking self healing away from arcane casters those same folks go right from perfectly calm to hilarious conniption fit in a matter of seconds - despite the fact that even if barbarians has unlimited heal spell usage they still wouldnt be in the same ballpark of power as self healing arcanes.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #49
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaimberland View Post
    And as far as every toon needs to be self-sufficient is a crock. D&D is meant to played as a group, with each member of that group bringing something a little different to contribute to the group. If every toon can heal itself, have massive dps and do traps then what's the point in the game really? I hate the direction the game is going in and the line of thinking that every toon has to be self-sufficient to be viable.
    By-product of a game with massive customization. Not many bananas left. We're all fruit punch

    And think how it is for a new player who rolls a fighter, thinking he'll collect his potions and rely on the party cleric when the pots dont cut it....the same as he's done in every other game. Pugs wont be much fun and he'll either quit or run with hires or friends

    Then we wonder why there arent more lfms

  10. #50
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    The best way to fix the barbarians, and indirectly other classes, would be to have potions that heal more and better access to healing amplification. I think it is time to remove the penalties for silver flame potions. Today the toons have much more hit points than when first were created these potions. It is time to remove the penalties for those potions (and this could encourage the purchase of Necropolis).

    Alternatively Turbine could do that sovereign healing potions appeared in game and not just in the store. These potions are similar to the silver flame potions and would be a good alternative.

    Of course that will not happen. Store rules.

    More DR would be nice but it's time to review the healing potions that exist in the game. In DDO toons have (many) more hps than pnp, and today they have more hps than ever. It's something that deserves a review, and not only in the store (Sovereign healing potions, ahem)

    And no, a barbarian with access to magic scrolls, no. The barbarians are illiterate, and magical reading is the most complicated reading that exists. We should respect the background of the game and D&D. Better potions and that the barbarian can use them in rage--- all fixed.
    When I was crazy I rolled on gold table. I received gold seal pot.s of superior warp9over9k healing or whatever their name was. They are exactly what you want. HoT effect for average 150, on my Barb with 50% hamp. I saw 220ish ticks frequently. But they cost TP/money. Removing the trade-off of SF pot.s does not concur with those store/gold roll pot.s.

    I was happy if they made Healing Spring a target: self only ability with 3/rest uses and by investing AP into Sghiradi give them like 6/rest maximum uses. Usable while in barbarian rage, of course. I favor Healing Spring as a twist on my Barb over most other options but a maximum of 3 Springs is not enough.

    Somehow the dev.s are afraid of self healing barb.s.....
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  11. #51
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    Well... one thing we all agree is barbarians need some serious fixing right now. Any news from the devs?
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  12. #52
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HernandoCortez View Post
    Well... one thing we all agree is barbarians need some serious fixing right now. Any news from the devs?
    And it's so nice to see everyone pretty much agreeing. I'm not that fussy on the particular mechanic that gets implemented to help Barbarians, but I too will hope the Devs take notice.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    It should be a reasonable thing! Turbine is abusing the store, and that can be bad for them in the long run. Something that is needed for the game (and it is time to review the healing potions, the only thing that does not have bigger numbers in years!) can not be just some of the store. At least not a consumable that needs to be renewed periodically. As I said, if they want to do it dependent to purchase adventures, I agree with that. But forcing the customer to buy POTIONS, is a very bad idea!
    /agree

    put them on guild vendors or something. we need to option to buy better healing pots from vendors.
    Dorian

  14. #54
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    When I was crazy I rolled on gold table. I received gold seal pot.s of superior warp9over9k healing or whatever their name was. They are exactly what you want. HoT effect for average 150, on my Barb with 50% hamp. I saw 220ish ticks frequently. But they cost TP/money. Removing the trade-off of SF pot.s does not concur with those store/gold roll pot.s.
    Those pots would be perfect for a barb. Unfortunately there are very few people that are interested in a pay-per-heal class. That makes me throw up a bit honestly. If the pots were plat buyable, it would actually be quite nice. As is, only Zynga fanboi nutjobs or people with massive disposable income would use that as a viable healing method for barbs.

    This sort of monetized microtransaction is unfortunately the product of the way the game works now. Back in the $15 per month days, these would just have been added to a favor vendor and we'd have a very differently balanced healing system. Because Turbine thinks that something as basic as self healing needs to be monetized, we have this problem that we do now.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  15. #55
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    I suspect that Turbine cares more about getting your money than about making barbs a viable class.

    If they are only going to put them in the DDO store, then SP pots should also only be there. And the cost of the healing potions should be exactly the same fraction of the cost of an SP pot that the SP required to cast heal or repair is a fraction of the SP that the pot provides.

  16. #56
    Community Member hp1055cm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Milic View Post
    For barbs turbine has to make dr relevant and make it stack.
    Have to give barbs more dr, what is 10 dr, thats nothing.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    I think dr/prr upgrade along with regeneration is the way to go. Why shouldnt a barb regenerate quickly? Make fast healing from fury only work while raged or like an action boost or something and make it every few seconds instead of every minute. Enough that a barb is able to feel self sufficient
    +1

    Moar DR, Moar HP, Mo betta' DPS.

    Personally I didn't think playing Barb was that bad; though that was at least 6 months ago for me, and I moderate the raging and splash another class for healing.

  17. #57
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I suspect that Turbine cares more about getting your money than about making barbs a viable class.

    If they are only going to put them in the DDO store, then SP pots should also only be there. And the cost of the healing potions should be exactly the same fraction of the cost of an SP pot that the SP required to cast heal or repair is a fraction of the SP that the pot provides.
    U 19 took a step closer to SP pots only in the store. You'll notice a drastic decrease of them on end reward lists. Also they function as "extra" treasure in chest now instead of your main treasure. Something tells me that overall, the average number of major pots available in game has dropped compared to pre U19. My tin foil hat has been secure on my head for some time now. Thanks
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  18. #58
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Those pots would be perfect for a barb. Unfortunately there are very few people that are interested in a pay-per-heal class. That makes me throw up a bit honestly. If the pots were plat buyable, it would actually be quite nice. As is, only Zynga fanboi nutjobs or people with massive disposable income would use that as a viable healing method for barbs.

    This sort of monetized microtransaction is unfortunately the product of the way the game works now. Back in the $15 per month days, these would just have been added to a favor vendor and we'd have a very differently balanced healing system. Because Turbine thinks that something as basic as self healing needs to be monetized, we have this problem that we do now.
    Since they drop on low to averageroll numbers I got 1 stack of 100 within a few rolls. Finally I could solo without hireling or interrupting the attack sequence to heal myself. These gold pot.s are what I want in general gameplay. But since they are linked to cash grabs I live with a Barb's flaw and play him only in groups where there is a possible babysitter... which is sad, cause this class has same existance value as any other class. But the current playstyle-trend excludes a Barbarian.

    He, ironic, it is like health insurance debate^^.

    Anyhow, the options are there but restricted. I think, a fix is not possible without messing up other existing game designs. The rage has always been an all-out option and always had the flaw of losing utility while raging. A guildy played his Bar-pl this way: he maximized UMD, used Tenser's scrolls and rarely to never raged. He was fine. This, however, seemed to me like cutting off a leg and trying to win a marathon with just one.

    All in all the self healing debate or self healing option is a bit too loud at the moment. But on the other hand there are so many new options and the Barbarian is the only class without any real use of them.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 10-01-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Maybe such attack in DDO could be given?
    Cost feat to select, and 1 rage, or action boost, or whatever to perform.
    Replace Morale with HP, scale numbers, and we're set

  20. #60
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Id agree to this, just to watch the massive griefing fest that follows when arcane casters, bards, and anyone with primal scream are rendering their entire party useless until their rage buffs wear off. Your nerf wouldn't last a week.
    puhlease, people will learn to toggle defensive stance.

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