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  1. #1
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default New Players and Storage Bags: The great mystery of DDO

    Welcome to Eberron New Players, we hope you enjoy your stay!!

    You get 60 inventory spaces. But there are these really cool red, green, and blue storage bags that might help you keep your inventory from clogging. Not to mention, quivers.

    But who needs any of those? Plus, we won't even tell you about them. It is the Rules of Fight Club.

    There are lots of undead in the game and you will need this weapon, and only this weapon: GHOST BANE. No other bane weapon is needed in the game. Just check the Weapon shops, they don't have any weapons but GHOST BANES.

    Do you like traps? The game has traps. Did you know that a rogue(F2P) or an artificer(P2P) will disarm traps? But guess what, you need gear to help you do that. And you know what? Finding that gear is near impossible, so make sure you check the Auction House to see what veteran players are asking for their +5 Disable Items. it won't take you too long to amass that wealth to gear up your character. Please stay, play, and pay.

    In the old days, low end gear for rogues/artificers was common, enjoy the new days!!
    Last edited by moomooprincess; 10-02-2013 at 07:11 AM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post
    Do you like traps? The game has traps. Did you know that a rogue(F2P) or an artificer(P2P) will disarm traps? But guess what, you need gear to help you do that. And you now what? Finding that gear is near impossible, so make sure you check the Auction House to see what veteran players are asking for their +5 Disable Items. it won't take you too long to amass that wealth to gear up your character. Please stay, play, and pay.

    In the old days, low end gear for rogues/artificers was common, enjoy the new days!!
    This is what is amazing to me about how they are changing trap DC's lately. Even my third life rogue with max Search and 1 or 2 ranks in Awareness (from the Mechanic tree) had to have his max-plus-search-for-level item on as he leveled after U19 in order to find traps - and this was doing elite quests at level (so, being level 18 while running Vale quests on elite, being level 16 while running Orchard quests on elite, etc). I don't understand how Turbine expects new players to enjoy running a rogue or artificer if they cannot perform one of the most critical functions of the class (and one of the functions which would be a huge reason for a new player to be a rogue or artificer). In fact, over the weekend, I was finishing up my (now) 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter (who was then 11 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter) who had max ranks in Search and a +15 search item - but no ranks in Awareness - and he could not find the traps in Coalescence chamber. Very disappointing.
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  3. #3
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    This is what is amazing to me about how they are changing trap DC's lately. Even my third life rogue with max Search and 1 or 2 ranks in Awareness (from the Mechanic tree) had to have his max-plus-search-for-level item on as he leveled after U19 in order to find traps - and this was doing elite quests at level (so, being level 18 while running Vale quests on elite, being level 16 while running Orchard quests on elite, etc). I don't understand how Turbine expects new players to enjoy running a rogue or artificer if they cannot perform one of the most critical functions of the class (and one of the functions which would be a huge reason for a new player to be a rogue or artificer). In fact, over the weekend, I was finishing up my (now) 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter (who was then 11 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter) who had max ranks in Search and a +15 search item - but no ranks in Awareness - and he could not find the traps in Coalescence chamber. Very disappointing.
    i have the same issue with traps (after skill tombs) thanks tirdbine your cunning tricks are kiling your game

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Nibor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    this was doing elite quests at level (so, being level 18 while running Vale quests on elite, being level 16 while running Orchard quests on elite, etc). I don't understand how Turbine expects new players to enjoy running a rogue or artificer if they cannot perform one of the most critical functions of the clas
    I don't expect a new player to run elite quests at level. And neither should you. Trying to be a Cleric in elite quests at level as a new player is hard, too - you run out of SP, you aren't able to contribute much besides healing/raises, you often die before others do (generally a Bad Idea when you're doing the healing), for example. Trying to be a Barbarian as a new player in elite at level quests is usually just rage-cleave-die-wonder why you keep dying all the time. And so forth.

    Normal and Hard level quests are perfectly acceptable levels of difficulty for newer players to perform. Running the quests on elite after they are overlevel is just fine too. That's what I did when i was a new player (not THAT long ago), and I enjoyed the game enough to improve and be able to run some EEs now (in a sufficiently good group, that is. I'm not soloing squat on EE.)

  5. #5
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibor View Post
    I don't expect a new player to run elite quests at level. And neither should you.
    I did not say I was expecting new players to run elite quests at level. So, I am uncertain where you are getting that. Simply because I, on my rogue's third life, am running elite quests at level does not in any way extrapolate to my having an expectation that a new player would. However, it does extrapolate to the expectation that traps on normal and hard difficulties would prove just as difficult to find given the likely inferior gear worn by new players (as compared to the gear I have on my rogue on his third life) - and this is the extrapolation I made.

    I stand by my assertion that the changes to the search and disable DC's of traps is not a good one and that it will harm newer players the most.
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    Actually, I fully expect new players to be running elite at level. Not because they should or even can contribute effectively, but because of the pervasive attitude of most that if it's not elite streaking it's not worth doing.

  7. #7
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    Actually, I fully expect new players to be running elite at level. Not because they should or even can contribute effectively, but because of the pervasive attitude of most that if it's not elite streaking it's not worth doing.
    This is probably also true.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    Actually, I fully expect new players to be running elite at level. Not because they should or even can contribute effectively, but because of the pervasive attitude of most that if it's not elite streaking it's not worth doing.
    And this is the kicker. Turbine has devised a BB system that pretty much forces everyone to run quests on elite if he wants a prayer of finding a group. This includes new players. But then they increase trap DCs so only well geared toons can do trapping on elite, so mostly the new players are being hurt the most. (Yep, the AH is mostly bare of trap gear unless you have tons of money. I do have money, but i still refused to pay those prices and crafted my search and disable gear myself.)

    It is a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand does, at best. At worst, the two hands know and just dont care.

  9. #9
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Well, another issue is that no one really asks if the trapper is new. I am guilty of this, even though I know full well what it's like and what difficulties they potentially face. I am just so used to running with veterans I never think to ask "Are you new?", "What are your Search and Disable skills?". I remember during my rogue's first life this was a big deal - big enough that I actually listed my skills in my bio. I no longer do this and, in fact, I cannot think of anyone who does, but first life I knew many rogues and they all did this, as well (one of them introduced me to the practice). Maybe the change is because people no longer bother to memorize the trap DC's. I know I don't have them memorized. I keep my skills max'd, carry items with the highest bonuses I can find, and roll into the quest expecting (and hoping) for the best.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    ......Really guys? People complained a long time ago that search and disable DC's were too low, thus making any Rogue capable of taking care of any trap and thus making the Mechanic PrE useless. Turbine had to change the Mechanic class to a combat focused one to compensate.

    People in general like to endlessly complain how easy this game is when they're running around in their end-game raid gear that they got specifically to make playing the game easier, and yet when Turbine increases the difficulty they turn around and start crying now that their uber end-game gear isn't uber compared to the content anymore.

    Make up your minds.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    ......Really guys? People complained a long time ago that search and disable DC's were too low, thus making any Rogue capable of taking care of any trap and thus making the Mechanic PrE useless. Turbine had to change the Mechanic class to a combat focused one to compensate.

    People in general like to endlessly complain how easy this game is when they're running around in their end-game raid gear that they got specifically to make playing the game easier, and yet when Turbine increases the difficulty they turn around and start crying now that their uber end-game gear isn't uber compared to the content anymore.

    Make up your minds.
    So, only Mechanics should be able to find and disable traps? Good to know! I've got skills other than Search, Disable Device and Open Lock I would like to invest in. I guess my Assassin should just start being like the clerics and favored souls you read about on the forums: I don't do <insert class' primary ability at which they excel>.

    Seriously, though, Turbine needs to ignore the vocal minority which are the forum posters. Second, I never said it was my uber gear that had been rendered useless by low trap DC's - though I will grant that while I have the Epic Utility Vest, I only needed equip it for one lock in the game.

    The thing is that it is just not fun to invest heavily in skills while leveling and still fail when using them. I mean, really, the only difference between my pure rogue, my 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter, and my 12 ranger/7 monk/1 rogue is that the pure rogue has invested in the Awareness enhancement. Otherwise, they all three have max'd ranks of Search and Disable Device and they all three had the highest bonus item on when searching for and disabling traps - and yet only the pure rogue was able to find traps reliably after 16th level. The other two could find them <=50% of the time.

    It is not always possible to invest in Awareness while still getting the enhancements that truly help your build - and this should not be required. It was not required before update 19 and it should not now be required. Funny how the enhancement pass is supposed to bring flexibility (and it has) and yet now rogues are being forced to build in a particular way in spite of having some really great build options available to them.
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  12. #12
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    To OP;

    On "elite". This is where the difficulty lies. New players can disarm on sub-elite and a mechanic is not needed for sub-elite.
    Been playing off and on since Beta
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  13. #13
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrichton View Post
    To OP;

    On "elite". This is where the difficulty lies. New players can disarm on sub-elite and a mechanic is not needed for sub-elite.
    You seem to be confused. I am not the original poster. However, I think it reasonable to expect trap DC's on normal and hard to have been bumped when they have been bumped on elite. So, please provide proof this is not the case, if you have it. In any event, why should non-Mechanic rogues be excluded from finding and disabling traps when they were not previously so excluded? Why should the Awareness enhancement be required if you are a rogue?

    Mind you, this change means you need max'd skills, top-flight gear *and* an enhancement that was not previously required to be a viable trapper during heroic levels. When it comes to skills, anyone playing a rogue who is serious about trapping already maxes their skills. As far as top-flight gear, only veterans who have played rogues or have learned about trapping would have acquired this. Players who are new to being a rogue would not necessarily have this gear - especially players who are new to the game.

    It used to be that you could either spend action points on enhancements to bump your skills or you could get the best gear for the level - but you were not required to do both - and the trap search DC's were fine as they were. This is not how it is anymore and that is the problem.
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  14. #14
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    I still get low level trapper items all the time. I don't know what the rest of your rant is about.

    I have a hard time dealing with anyone complaining about drop rates.... The next thread will just be complaining about drop rates being too high and how it's bad for the game.

    I just don't know anymore.

  15. #15
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    It is not too long ago when the DC of ellite traps got raised significantly (was it U15?) and even on lowest lv. 2 quests running under correct level 8lv. 4 on elite) finding these traps was near-to impossible for the 1st life standard-geared (+3 gear!) Rogue or Arty. Well. we adapted, and the everfull potion of heroism helped as well. And having 3 past lifes of arty helped as well.

    OK, we now face uber-challenging heroic elite for all those that have the uber toons with uber gear and have their EDs ready for lv. 16+. For all others, like me (heavy casual veteran player with better than average gear on level, but not uber gear and about 2 hours exposure to gaming daily), heroic elite simply is too hard - especially on quest lv. 15+ (I only say Kobold and Into the Flesh now) with toons on level (so lv. 15 toon in Into the Flesh). I think the elitists got what they always dreamed of - a challenge. And all else got what they deserved (boot by the devs).

    And DDO already got the most new-player-unfriendly game by a wide margin. I usually need about one hour of MY playing time to help new players along. They simply do not see through. I had the same problems when I started. but I had my Mary Mosshand directly at the pier. And I had +5 search and +5 disable device by lv. 4. And I got pre U15 my search dice roll on the elite trap. No need to either do (automatic success) or die.

    DDO had been a lot easier then. And the elitists that do already have everything for any level are still complaining how easy everything is now. And the gap between starters and them is widening by a wide margin and DDO looses players.

    Turbine would be well advise to revise several of their politics (pay to succeed - you do not pay, you do not succeed on finding / disabling traps...) and their strategies (making more gear for the already geared and nerfing everythijng else).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I still get low level trapper items all the time. I don't know what the rest of your rant is about.

    I have a hard time dealing with anyone complaining about drop rates.... The next thread will just be complaining about drop rates being too high and how it's bad for the game.

    I just don't know anymore.

    no you dont.

    Spot, search, Disable and Open lock items... Especially Clean level appropriate items, are not dropping often.

    I'm leveling a rogue right now and its become painfully obvious.

    in the past, as I leveled a build that did traps, I would just use the AH and Brokers to equip my toon. It was easy to find clean level appropriate gear. Usually in the 5-10k range per item.

    This life... If I ddnt have a crafter, I would not have level appropriate gear.

    I've been crafting items and throwing them on the AH. Getting 20-25k per item....

    this Sucks for new players trying to play artificers or Rogues. teh gear simply isnt there and Elite is the new Normal when it comes to LFM's.

    Everyone is expected to be able to play heroic elite in this day and age of DDO.
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  17. #17
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    "everyone is expected to play heroic elite" there's the problem. has been for a while. bb is dumb. hurts the game. should be at least adjusted so only the folks it was intended for (the multi-tr's) can use it. stop insisting on elite, and the problem goes away. they could just as easily eliminate bb, lower the xp penalty for tr'ing, and be done with it. why they haven't i have no clue.

  18. #18
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by levesque2004 View Post
    "everyone is expected to play heroic elite" there's the problem. has been for a while. bb is dumb. hurts the game. should be at least adjusted so only the folks it was intended for (the multi-tr's) can use it. stop insisting on elite, and the problem goes away. they could just as easily eliminate bb, lower the xp penalty for tr'ing, and be done with it. why they haven't i have no clue.
    Well, they have already done what they can when it comes to game logic to prevent non-tr's from running elite streaks - and that is to gate the ability to open on hard or elite by number of past lives for non-VIP players. You can argue this should be gated for VIP players, as well, but this is one of the reason I maintain my subscription and I have spoken with other VIP players who list this as one reason they maintain their subscription. You could further argue that these players would likely maintain their subscription anyway (and I probably would), but the last thing Turbine needs to do right now is to further erode reasons players have for maintaining their subscriptions.

    Beyond gating the ability to open on hard or elite by number of past lives, there is nothing Turbine can do except bar characters from entering on hard or elite unless they have already run the quest on normal or hard, as appropriate. Doing this will certainly reduce the number of characters maintaining an elite streak. However, it also will mean that you further split the playerbase into groups: one section of the playerbase can run elite streaks, one can run hard streaks, and the rest cannot take advantage of the mechanic at all.

    Outside of those two things, there is absolutely nothing Turbine can do to prevent under-geared characters or inexperienced players from entering a quest on elite when someone else in the party can open the quest on elite.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    This is what is amazing to me about how they are changing trap DC's lately. Even my third life rogue with max Search and 1 or 2 ranks in Awareness (from the Mechanic tree) had to have his max-plus-search-for-level item on as he leveled after U19 in order to find traps - and this was doing elite quests at level (so, being level 18 while running Vale quests on elite, being level 16 while running Orchard quests on elite, etc). I don't understand how Turbine expects new players to enjoy running a rogue or artificer if they cannot perform one of the most critical functions of the class (and one of the functions which would be a huge reason for a new player to be a rogue or artificer). In fact, over the weekend, I was finishing up my (now) 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter (who was then 11 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter) who had max ranks in Search and a +15 search item - but no ranks in Awareness - and he could not find the traps in Coalescence chamber. Very disappointing.
    Yep, high INT, skill points in search, and L15 search item. I'm also running around with an L15 disable device item (not really need, but just in case since I added the search item to my gear).

  20. #20
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    Default Puggin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghoulstorm View Post
    Actually, I fully expect new players to be running elite at level. Not because they should or even can contribute effectively, but because of the pervasive attitude of most that if it's not elite streaking it's not worth doing.
    I got used to elite quests, because most pugs were only elite when I started puggin'. When I was new I would do a quest on normal, then hard, then elite. But since I started puggin' I just got used to doin' everything on elite. I don't streak as I feel there is plenty of xp in the game, but still run in most pugs on elite.

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