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  1. #41
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    no you dont.

    Spot, search, Disable and Open lock items... Especially Clean level appropriate items, are not dropping often.

    I'm leveling a rogue right now and its become painfully obvious.

    in the past, as I leveled a build that did traps, I would just use the AH and Brokers to equip my toon. It was easy to find clean level appropriate gear. Usually in the 5-10k range per item.

    This life... If I ddnt have a crafter, I would not have level appropriate gear.

    I've been crafting items and throwing them on the AH. Getting 20-25k per item....

    this Sucks for new players trying to play artificers or Rogues. teh gear simply isnt there and Elite is the new Normal when it comes to LFM's.

    Everyone is expected to be able to play heroic elite in this day and age of DDO.
    Yeah, they don't seem to be dropping all that much now. They used to drop so often that I sold all my low-level gear - and now I have none! hahaha.

    Anyways, the OP isn't entirely accurate here. I play an artie. With maxed skill levels and poor gear, plus heroism pots, I have been able to disable every trap with a box (up to 7th lvl now on this life). I have one past life with artie and am using +5 disable tools - and that's it. No disable device item at all. Admittedly, and oddly, I found a +9 search ring for low levels, so that's likely helping find the traps. But once found, they're being disabled with no item bonus.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    You specifically stated:

    So basically you're saying that in your opinion these Feats shoud be removed from the game so you can concentrate on DPS DPS DPS!



    So anyone laughing at me, you or Newbies for taking Skill Focus: Search would clearly be a Noob!

    Wheras in the past they've had reasons for criticizing the New Focus on Search is going to change that!




    I'm frankly not at all surprised - Even a PURE Acrobat has issues getting viable DCs - A Mutt Build = No Hope pre Destinies!




    With all that Int you really shouldn't be having trouble getting Search and Disable DCs anywhere {Check you've got your Best Minute Seeing/Disabling items hotbarred and swapped in when required!}.




    And I was talking specifically about Acrobats as they have it the worst of anyone!

    I couldn't go into detail on every different type of Rogue or Arti Build as there simply isn't enough time this century!


    P.S. Your Monk Acrobat is STILL a Str Build?
    Why?

    With 12 Base Int I can pretty much guarantee you're gonna have problems with Traps {even as a Legend Build} Pre Destinies.
    I would very much like to see some examples of your "Guarantee".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    Lol. It's not the first 10 levels anyone has trouble with. Try the next 10 and see how you do.
    I've never had an issue with maxed gear, maxed skill, but ok. Will do! I have run quests with not-maxed gear rogues and seen them fail at traps a few times.

    If you're correct, I don't see any problems. It means that new players will be ok and then at level 10, they'll start hitting traps that they can't open - that's good. The game shouldn't be a cakewalk. It has to have some level of difficulty, some "oh, I guess I'll have to build for this if I want to do elite."

    Otherwise, why bother having skill checks at all? Why bother having an elite difficulty? Just let any rogue enter a dungeon and have all the traps fling themselves open.

  4. #44
    Community Member Jeremiah179's Avatar
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    I just wanted to comment...

    With Cannith Crafting you can quickly and pretty easily create a +10 Open Lock,Disable, and Search item for instance 3 rings, easy to swap - with masterful craftsmanship it is level 5.


    There are a lot of crafters who could make items like this. Even for a new player - some would do it for materials...some would not even care and would just make it for you to be helpful...

    I have found there to be sufficient difference in Normal vs Elite that I could believe that a 3rd life geared rogue could struggle in elite, yet a 1st life could do it with a similar effort on normal, and maybe hard.


    That being said,

    I agree that a fairly maxed out rogue with good items should be able to detect all traps and boxes with a good roll, maybe 12-15+, but I do not mind if on Elite more boxes blow up and more attempt fail...it is EE?
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  5. #45
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah179 View Post

    I agree that a fairly maxed out rogue with good items should be able to detect all traps and boxes with a good roll, maybe 12-15+, but I do not mind if on Elite more boxes blow up and more attempt fail...it is EE?
    Search does NOT have a Roll!

    There is no Dice - It is a Flat Number and either you have the DC or you don't!


    This is why any Search DCs should be correspondingly lower than the Disable DCs for each trap!

    Disable can fail without blowing the box if you fail by less than 5 so if you can get within 5 points of the highest DC at each level you're golden.

    Add to this the fact that Disable Benefits from Tools which Search doesn't and you have a 12 point differential between possible Search and Disable Stats!


    Oh and of course simply by virtue of Rolling the Dice Disable is always ONE pt higher as you cannot roll a Zero!

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Search does NOT have a Roll!

    There is no Dice - It is a Flat Number and either you have the DC or you don't!


    This is why any Search DCs should be correspondingly lower than the Disable DCs for each trap!

    Disable can fail without blowing the box if you fail by less than 5 so if you can get within 5 points of the highest DC at each level you're golden.

    Add to this the fact that Disable Benefits from Tools which Search doesn't and you have a 12 point differential between possible Search and Disable Stats!


    Oh and of course simply by virtue of Rolling the Dice Disable is always ONE pt higher as you cannot roll a Zero!
    Got any of those examples yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
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  7. #47
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Got any of those examples yet?
    From experience of just how hard it can be to get high DCs with Maxed Int {Wiz 18 / Rogue 2} sans gear expecting to get good results on a Dex {or in the case of the person quoted Str} build Acrobat with a 12 Base Int and no level ups or Enhancements is asking for too much.


    You've been around the Block when it comes to DDO - You're a Hall of Famer for crying out loud - I'm NOT talking to you but to the majority who don't have your experience, Gear, 3 Arti Past Lives etc. etc.

    +4 Stat tomes{ which that person stated he had} aren't generally available to 1st Life Heroic toons.

    +3/4 Skill Tomes Likewise.


    I'm VIP and Bought the Expansions and got Two Free +3 Skill Tomes on Every Character {Went to Search and Disable on my Trappers}.
    The Majority don't have this advantage however - and even with this advantage {and +15 items} I find myself trying and failing to get viable Trap DCs on my Mid Level {1st Life yes} Acrobats!

    I felt like crying when running with a real life friend and he's finding boxes from half a mile off with the new Nothing is Hidden Enhancement {even with a -4 to his Search score!} - He did however have an Int in the 40s {on his 1st life} and was a Rogue Mech/Arti on Both 1st and 2nd Lives!

    Also he has been using the Bow that gives Overfocus {a -10 penalty to Search} and has regularly complained that the Traps are unfindable until reminded to swap Weapons!

    If He can not find traps whilst maxed out as a trapbot just because he's not swapped his -10 Search Bow out then what chance an Acrobat with 12 base Int.


    Oh and he is of course already complaining that Traps are Still Too Easy {Just cos he's Built for 100+ DCs!}.


    If you want to dump Int as a trapper these days then you'd better have the gear, tomes, spider mask etc. to make up for it - You're currently looking at Lower Level traps WHICH have been said by the devs to have been made easier!
    Higher Level Traps however are Now much closer to the DCs they should be at and as such you're no longer gonna be able to say "Hey I only need to get to 70 Disable DC why do I need Int again?"

    The Days of Int Dumped Rogues are Over!


    Now of course - 12 Base Int is only 1 skill point less than 14, 3 less than 18 BUT I wasn't simply talking about the Base but about the fact that this is on an Acrobat who has most likely put Level ups into {I assumed Dex but more likely considering the build} Str.
    And it's also likely that his Enhancements have gone to Dex rather than Int.


    Now of course you could refute this by showing exactly how to get a Search DC in the High 60s by Lvl 20 on a 3rd Life Monk/Acrobat with a 12 Base Int and Level Ups + Enhancements going to Str/Dex.

    And also how to remain viable as a trapper at Lvl 16-19 Pre Epic Gear and Destinies!

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    From experience of just how hard it can be to get high DCs with Maxed Int {Wiz 18 / Rogue 2} sans gear expecting to get good results on a Dex {or in the case of the person quoted Str} build Acrobat with a 12 Base Int and no level ups or Enhancements is asking for too much.


    You've been around the Block when it comes to DDO - You're a Hall of Famer for crying out loud - I'm NOT talking to you but to the majority who don't have your experience, Gear, 3 Arti Past Lives etc. etc.

    +4 Stat tomes{ which that person stated he had} aren't generally available to 1st Life Heroic toons.

    +3/4 Skill Tomes Likewise.


    I'm VIP and Bought the Expansions and got Two Free +3 Skill Tomes on Every Character {Went to Search and Disable on my Trappers}.
    The Majority don't have this advantage however - and even with this advantage {and +15 items} I find myself trying and failing to get viable Trap DCs on my Mid Level {1st Life yes} Acrobats!

    I felt like crying when running with a real life friend and he's finding boxes from half a mile off with the new Nothing is Hidden Enhancement {even with a -4 to his Search score!} - He did however have an Int in the 40s {on his 1st life} and was a Rogue Mech/Arti on Both 1st and 2nd Lives!

    Also he has been using the Bow that gives Overfocus {a -10 penalty to Search} and has regularly complained that the Traps are unfindable until reminded to swap Weapons!

    If He can not find traps whilst maxed out as a trapbot just because he's not swapped his -10 Search Bow out then what chance an Acrobat with 12 base Int.


    Oh and he is of course already complaining that Traps are Still Too Easy {Just cos he's Built for 100+ DCs!}.


    If you want to dump Int as a trapper these days then you'd better have the gear, tomes, spider mask etc. to make up for it - You're currently looking at Lower Level traps WHICH have been said by the devs to have been made easier!
    Higher Level Traps however are Now much closer to the DCs they should be at and as such you're no longer gonna be able to say "Hey I only need to get to 70 Disable DC why do I need Int again?"

    The Days of Int Dumped Rogues are Over!


    Now of course - 12 Base Int is only 1 skill point less than 14, 3 less than 18 BUT I wasn't simply talking about the Base but about the fact that this is on an Acrobat who has most likely put Level ups into {I assumed Dex but more likely considering the build} Str.
    And it's also likely that his Enhancements have gone to Dex rather than Int.


    Now of course you could refute this by showing exactly how to get a Search DC in the High 60s by Lvl 20 on a 3rd Life Monk/Acrobat with a 12 Base Int and Level Ups + Enhancements going to Str/Dex.

    And also how to remain viable as a trapper at Lvl 16-19 Pre Epic Gear and Destinies!
    so thats a no then? Not a single actual example of what you think your talking about.... Thats awesome.. you just assume its too hard?

    The problems trappers face right now is simple. Level appropriate trap skill items dont drop enough. they are far too rare in this stupid treasure table we are stuck with right now.

    The Traps themselves are NOT out of line. They have not been raised. In fact, many have been lowered over the years. really high DC's are generally academic. They do not prevent progression or cause party wipes in a quest if they cant be disabled.

    Let me know when you run into a actual verifiable problem with traps. k thanks....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    We don't envision starting players with Starter Gear and zero knowledge playing on Hard or Elite.
    Sev~

  9. #49
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    OP is right...
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  10. #50
    Community Member blackdae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomooprincess View Post

    Do you like traps? The game has traps. Did you know that a rogue(F2P) or an artificer(P2P) will disarm traps? But guess what, you need gear to help you do that. And you now what? Finding that gear is near impossible, so make sure you check the Auction House to see what veteran players are asking for their +5 Disable Items. it won't take you too long to amass that wealth to gear up your character. Please stay, play, and pay.

    In the old days, low end gear for rogues/artificers was common, enjoy the new days!!
    I feel so bad about this.. Can't find anything on the AH (or better: +15 item 250k.....), my crafter is only level 70 and can't craft +13 items.. I just had to pull out of my TR cache the Tharnes but now I lost my GS goggles so I'm at -30 HP and I don't really want to do another GS since my end equip is not already set in stone..

    Please, let trapper's stuff drop again.. you raised traps' DCs and lowered our chance to deal with them.. it's so silly..

  11. #51
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default Yay, I am not the only one noticing the lack of rogue/arti gear

    I love some of the solutions for the new players. I must be missing the guide/exploit on how to make my new character on a new server have three lives and crafting ability of 100 in a couple of weeks.

    Any new player that comes to the game and chooses rogue has almost no chance of finding gear, let alone buying it on the AH for 25,000 plat.

    I have ran a few quests that are rogue dependent(tear of dhakaan(optionals), gwylans, xorian cipher), and quickly discovered that the rogue could not find nor disable any traps, even though their level showed they should have had some gear and some ability. Unfortunately, they didn't.

    I do notice that level 7 gear is now +9 instead of +10. So, that does make crafting a solution, I am assuming that crafting still makes +10 for a level 7. I quit crafting gear long ago in a galaxy far, far away.
    Last edited by moomooprincess; 10-02-2013 at 06:45 AM.
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  12. #52
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Sadly enough I have to share the opinion that trapper gear/tools are dropping far far less then it used to.
    Not that I am not am able to get what I need to get the job done but it seems to be costing a stupid amount of time/plat to get it.
    but still like playing my rogue above any other toon

  13. #53
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Most of the discussion is complaining about classic power creep (in this case as applied to skills). It's not good, it's annoying to everyone, but unfortunately it's not really something that can/will be reversed.

    I do, however, support OP's last point: the new RG loot system is bonkers and needs to be fixed. It's outta balance, and outta whack. Skill items shouldn't be nearly as rare as they are now.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    This is what is amazing to me about how they are changing trap DC's lately. Even my third life rogue with max Search and 1 or 2 ranks in Awareness (from the Mechanic tree) had to have his max-plus-search-for-level item on as he leveled after U19 in order to find traps - and this was doing elite quests at level (so, being level 18 while running Vale quests on elite, being level 16 while running Orchard quests on elite, etc). I don't understand how Turbine expects new players to enjoy running a rogue or artificer if they cannot perform one of the most critical functions of the class (and one of the functions which would be a huge reason for a new player to be a rogue or artificer). In fact, over the weekend, I was finishing up my (now) 13 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter (who was then 11 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter) who had max ranks in Search and a +15 search item - but no ranks in Awareness - and he could not find the traps in Coalescence chamber. Very disappointing.
    I had a similar complaint, until I remembered that I was playing Elite. The streak bonus has caused me to play nothing but Elite and it's caused me to treat the difficulty as the new normal, but it really isn't. I've come to somewhat dislike the streak. (Though 3rd+ lives need that bonus if sanity is to be preserved.)

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