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  1. #41
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    The complaint is valid, but I seriously doubt Cordovan had anything to do with that decision. Messenger-shooting is uncool, and only discourages Turbine from communicating with us.
    We're not shooting Cord, we're shooting Turbine VIA Cord. Since we have no way to know which dev or which suit is actually responsible, we have no choice but to voice our displeasure this way. And if Cord is mature and not adolescently discouraged from communicating because he understands this mechanic of forum communication, then he will pass the feedback on to the person(s) responsible in good faith. That is his job, is it not?

    Also, I can't say I disagree with the decision. Having a TP only, trade-able item only promotes 3rd party gold sellers and their ilk in a way that can't be policed by the company. If you think that's not an issue, go play Vindictus and see what gold selling and real money exploits have done to that game.

    I do agree that un-trade-able Stones should be for sale individually, provided they are only usable on one's self.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  2. #42
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Right, the earlier (incorrect as it turns out) August statement was based on the information I had at the time. I look forward to it being used against me for years to come.
    Masochism at it's finest. My hat off to you sir!
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  3. #43
    Hero, Mo Bro H'ro, & MB Super-H'ro ComicRelief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    *snip* I look forward to it being used against me for years to come.
    As do I - for that would mean that DDO will be around for all of that time, too.
    "...At least it tells us they understand our language; they're just not willing to speak to us in it. -Who knew they were French?"

  4. #44
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    Ok.. so a couple of months back I traded TP for an Otto's stone (was mailed to me). My understanding is that, at that time, I could use that stone on myself even though I did not purchase the box (is that correct?). Now, given this change.. I can no longer do so? (the thing is useless to me now?).

  5. #45
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With the release of Update 19 Patch 3, we have clarified the description of the Otto's Box and Stone of Experience to match the actual in-game experience. The Otto's Box now explicitly states in it's hover-over tool tip that the item is tradable, and the tool tip for the Stone of Experience now states that it can only be used by the player who opened the Otto's Box.

    In other words: If you want someone else to have the Stone of Experience, you need to trade them the entire unopened Otto's Box.
    I'm really disappointed that this is the decision you guys have come to.

    But thank you for announcing a decision.

    I'll no longer buy any boxes.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    We're not shooting Cord, we're shooting Turbine VIA Cord. Since we have no way to know which dev or which suit is actually responsible, we have no choice but to voice our displeasure this way. And if Cord is mature and not adolescently discouraged from communicating because he understands this mechanic of forum communication, then he will pass the feedback on to the person(s) responsible in good faith. That is his job, is it not?
    When someone says "GG Cordo" they are specifically blaming a customer service representative for a decision made by developers or management, which is neither reasonable nor fair.

    fTdOmen: Why would this prevent you from buying boxes? Just curious because I thought most people bought them specifically for the stone, and to use it on themselves.

  7. #47
    Community Member Vastyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    You should do a buyback on the nerfed stones, since you changed the functionality.
    This!

    There was not even any warning so we could churn out quick trs and level up our friends with any remaining Otto's stones.

    I opened the Otto's Boxes myself for the pots and AS. Now, I have no use for these Otto's xp stones as my tr group will unable to xp jump with me
    Last edited by Vastyr; 10-03-2013 at 12:37 AM.

  8. #48
    Community Member XiaNYdE's Avatar
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    All i can say is Turbine won't be getting another cent from me for Otto's. I used to buy them for my 2 guildies (close personal friends) who can't keep up with me when tr'ing due to differing time constraints.
    I would keep all the goodies and throw them the stone, and it helped them keep a toon in touch with me. Now they are saying i have to give them the whole box, no thanks turbine, cheaper to roll out a temp toon and help them level that way.
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  9. #49
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With the release of Update 19 Patch 3, we have clarified the description of the Otto's Box and Stone of Experience to match the actual in-game experience. The Otto's Box now explicitly states in it's hover-over tool tip that the item is tradable, and the tool tip for the Stone of Experience now states that it can only be used by the player who opened the Otto's Box.

    In other words: If you want someone else to have the Stone of Experience, you need to trade them the entire unopened Otto's Box.
    You are not taking into account stones that are traded in the past.
    Who should I contact to swap around such a stone that now is unusable?

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
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  10. #50
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With the release of Update 19 Patch 3, we have clarified the description of the Otto's Box and Stone of Experience to match the actual in-game experience. The Otto's Box now explicitly states in it's hover-over tool tip that the item is tradable, and the tool tip for the Stone of Experience now states that it can only be used by the player who opened the Otto's Box.

    In other words: If you want someone else to have the Stone of Experience, you need to trade them the entire unopened Otto's Box.
    Can you please tell me what I am supposed to do with the old stone that I traded for? I traded for it based on the premise of the previous item description, which stated that you can use it on other players. Will a GM replace this old stone with a new one, since you retroactively changed how it works?

  11. #51
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    stop the drama pls, they pointed that had no interest selling otto's when fixing the tr timer(lr doesn't reset it anymore) and with the otto change, which has been for a while

    but just to be sure, turbine released double points at same that otto in store

    i clearly understand that turbine, not only wants me to not buy more otto, explicitly is saying me "don't buy anything in the store again"

    and well, with things as clearly stated, think i'll have to obey

    so cool, changed retroactively an item that was giving em so money... not much smart, must say
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  12. #52
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    fTdOmen: Why would this prevent you from buying boxes? Just curious because I thought most people bought them specifically for the stone, and to use it on themselves.
    Simple, I guess I'm not most people. I used to give stones away freely to a couple of RL friends & we'd do chain TR's when our partners were away.
    I'd also give stones away to close in game friends for birthdays and other occasions.

    I was willing to give away the stones freely as something I valued at around $25.

    I can't afford to buy sp pots / xp pots / astral shards, and give away whole boxes, so I won't.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Simple, I guess I'm not most people. I used to give stones away freely to a couple of RL friends & we'd do chain TR's when our partners were away.
    I'd also give stones away to close in game friends for birthdays and other occasions.

    I was willing to give away the stones freely as something I valued at around $25.

    I can't afford to buy sp pots / xp pots / astral shards, and give away whole boxes, so I won't.
    Thanks. That makes a lot more sense than this arbitrary and seemingly pointless change.

  14. #54
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Cordovan, the text on the Otto's stone doesn't make it clear that : The person who opens the box cannot place the stone in a hotbar and then use it on a targeted party member.

    Does this mean you're working on restoring the ability to target our party members with Otto's stones again?

    Saying yes would make a few Kiwi's I know quite happy

  15. #55
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    bump.

    1. last question and hope.

  16. #56
    Community Member achitophel's Avatar
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    When these first came out i bought several of them, the functionality was originally meant to be to click it on yourself or a friend on your hotbar (as the original stone), the stones were tradable.

    This is the functionality that i paid for. I did not pay $50 for each box only to have the stones constantly change. Please restore the original functionality and stop messing with it.

    Is it really worth losing all of these paying customers over ? I know at least one good earner for you who has recently quit because of the Otto fiasco and the death of resetting tr timer...
    Last edited by achitophel; 10-04-2013 at 06:47 AM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    fTdOmen: Why would this prevent you from buying boxes? Just curious because I thought most people bought them specifically for the stone, and to use it on themselves.
    Qaliya - as various people have given examples of how they intend to use them and how this change has impacted them. Different people cite different ways - that was the flexibility of the offering.
    There are two key issues:
    (1) Turbine have now absolutely linked the stones to the accessories - you can no longer segregate them and move them between toons. On the surface this seems like a poor business decision. They may have a very good reason for it, which should have been communicated to avoid these bad PR threads. Eg. Some one was exploiting this, or people were being ripped off with old MOTU stones, so we had to do this. Most reasonable people would go "fair enough".
    (2) the item we now have is not what was advertised and we thought we had purchased. This is the more serious issue that is apparently being swept away by a text edit.

    I'm not blaming Cordo for what he did or did not say. But changing the text after the event does not "fix" the problem. People bought based on what was said (be it right or wrong) and what they read on the items advertised.

    There is a real danger in retrospectively changing an expensive high profile item such as this.
    Some people will not care as they are not affected, but those that are, will care a lot because the item is expensive and paid with real world cash in most cases.

    Do I think Turbine will care? Probably not unless this thread goes nuclear.
    They will just ignore it as usual.... Until their Otto sales take a hit and the team sit in their weekly mgmt meeting scratching their heads as to why.

    My advice is to fix this issue before it becomes a problem.
    Leave the advertised stones as they were, and if you want to make future changes, change the product. Call them Mordo's Magnificant Balls for all I care.
    Like Bigby's but do it right this time! Brief your team so they have all the salient information to pass onto curious customers, so we can make informed decisions, before spending $40+ on something that someone fixes with a retrospective text edit.

  18. #58
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    Unhappy customers are customers that wont pay for things anymore.. just saying I surely wont spend any more money on turbine points unless its necessary and surely not 45eur for an ottos box where i dont need even half of all the items in there...

    i really hope you change back the stones to how they have been before. this now is just a rip off..

    Completionists: Heroic 34/42, Epic 36/36, "Iconic" 12/12

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    With the release of Update 19 Patch 3, we have clarified the description of the Otto's Box and Stone of Experience to match the actual in-game experience. The Otto's Box now explicitly states in it's hover-over tool tip that the item is tradable, and the tool tip for the Stone of Experience now states that it can only be used by the player who opened the Otto's Box.

    In other words: If you want someone else to have the Stone of Experience, you need to trade them the entire unopened Otto's Box.
    I sent you a PM regarding this issue, but I'm going to put it out here too to see if someone will tell me exactly how laughably screwed I am at this point:

    What I'm taking away from it is that the three stones of experience I have currently in my shared bank are now totally and completely useless to me? One is from an Otto's box that I purchased myself and opened with a character I can't even remember to get at the cosmetic pet immediately, two are from a trade I made trading another Otto's box I purchased for two stones. If what I'm reading is correct, I can't use any of these now on a character I TR myself unless I:
    a) Am lucky enough to actually TR the character that opened my original Otto's box, or
    b) Manage to recall who I traded the other box to and convince them to use their stones on me?

    If this is the case I'd like to know if there is any recourse available to me to get my money or Turbine points back for the two Otto's boxes I purchased which have been basically rendered useless to me. If I'm reading this entirely wrong, would you have the time to enlighten me as to the correct care and use of the stone's I have in my possession, as well as the Otto's box in my shared bank (that yes, I also purchased).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Right, the earlier (incorrect as it turns out) August statement was based on the information I had at the time. I look forward to it being used against me for years to come.
    It wasn't just the propogation of this information that you, the official community rep of the company, wrote, it was also that trading the stones was common practice, and GMs fixing stones that didn't work being common practice that lead me to trade away a box I bought. I really don't know how to classify the practice where someone sells something describing it to work in a particular way, but then changes it so it works not at all as anything other than theft. I'm hoping this isn't what you've (Turbine, not you specifically Cordovan) done.

  20. #60
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HGM-Chi View Post
    I really don't know how to classify the practice where someone sells something describing it to work in a particular way, but then changes it so it works not at all as anything other than theft. I'm hoping this isn't what you've (Turbine, not you specifically Cordovan) done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

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