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  1. #1
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    Default Shadow Veil Incorp and Displacement

    Not sure I'm understanding the way this is calculated...

    Shadow Veil is 25% incorporeal. Displace is 50% concealment.

    While Displacement doesn't stack with other concealment bonuses such as Blur or Dusk (http://ddowiki.com/page/Displacement), it does stack with Incorporeal. Or at least I greatly assume it does or nobody would even bother with it.

    How then is this calculated?

    (1-.5)*(1-.25)=37% chance to hit (63% miss).
    or is it (more simply):
    100% chance to hit - 50% miss - 25% miss = 25% chance to hit (75% miss).

    I assume it is the second one. But I know heal amp works multiplicatively so this may too...

    Help?

    NOTE from Soulfurnace! Take into account the 5% miss chance from AC that everyone has because of mobs missing on a 1.

    And thanks to Krelar, FuzzyDuck81, and Soulfurnace for telling me it's the first one!
    New equation for Displacement, Shadow Veil, and no AC:
    (1-.05)*(1-.5)*(1-.25)=35% chance to hit (65% miss).
    Last edited by Clemeit; 09-30-2013 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Got responses

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Not sure I'm understanding the way this is calculated...

    Shadow Veil is 25% incorporeal. Displace is 50% concealment.

    While Displacement doesn't stack with other concealment bonuses such as Blur or Dusk (http://ddowiki.com/page/Displacement), it does stack with Incorporeal. Or at least I greatly assume it does or nobody would even bother with it.

    How then is this calculated?

    (1-.5)*(1-.25)=37% chance to hit (63% miss).
    or is it (more simply):
    100% chance to hit - 50% miss - 25% miss = 25% chance to hit (75% miss).

    I assume it is the second one. But I know heal amp works multiplicatively so...

    Help?
    It's the first one. I'm not sure which order things are checked in, and it doesn't actually matter as far as how likely you are to get hit, but it check one bonus first and if they manage to get past that then it checks the next bonus.

  3. #3
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Dodge, incorporeal, concealment & AC are all independent miss chances - if it gets through 1 layer of defence, then the % chance of the next layer is calculated seperately, so the 1st option.

    Dodge appears to be checked first - tested with meld into darkness from shadowdancer as it gives +100% dodge chance & in a group of enemies i was only getting "dodge" appear. Not sure about the other ones, but I'd presume AC is probably the last one.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  4. #4
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Minor note, always include the *.95 you get from AC.
    Don't care what your AC is, .95 is accurate. :P

    Also, if it was the second one, would mobs heal me? I have 50% incorp, 27% dodge, 25% incorp for 102%. Surely I'm being healed. And invincible. (So it must be the first)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    It's the first one. I'm not sure which order things are checked in, and it doesn't actually matter as far as how likely you are to get hit, but it check one bonus first and if they manage to get past that then it checks the next bonus.
    Thank you Krelar for the fast response.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    Dodge, incorporeal, concealment & AC are all independent miss chances - if it gets through 1 layer of defence, then the % chance of the next layer is calculated seperately, so the 1st option.

    Dodge appears to be checked first - tested with meld into darkness from shadowdancer as it gives +100% dodge chance & in a group of enemies i was only getting "dodge" appear. Not sure about the other ones, but I'd presume AC is probably the last one.
    Thanks. Also, I don't think the order matters in the end when they are calculated multiplicatively, but yeah, I guess it still matters because of how the game handles it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Minor note, always include the *.95 you get from AC.
    Don't care what your AC is, .95 is accurate. :P

    Also, if it was the second one, would mobs heal me? I have 50% incorp, 27% dodge, 25% incorp for 102%. Surely I'm being healed. And invincible. (So it must be the first)
    Thanks, and good addition haha xD

  8. #8
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Its a separate check for each layer of defense...I'm pretty sure it check Dodge, than Incorp, than concealment, than AC

    Using my Wizard/Fighter/Rogue as an example the game checks 75% chance to-hit vs. dodge, than 65% chance to hit vs. Incorp, than 50% to hit vs. Displacement, than I don't really know vs. AC but mines 89...even if your AC is 10 its at most a 95% chance to hit due to mobs rolling a one.

    I'm not sure how to calculate 25% + 35% + 50% + 5% (or more..game says 64% defense chance at level though)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-30-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member visibleman's Avatar
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  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visibleman View Post
    I think I failed at using the formula correctly...it put out a 95.6% miss chance for a character in Improved Wraith form (35%), with displacement (50%) and max dodge (25%).
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-30-2013 at 02:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I think I failed at using the formula correctly...it put out a 95.6% miss chance for a character in Improved Wraith form (35%), with displacement (50%) and max dodge (25%).
    If your looking at this: Miss chance % = (1-(D*C*I))*100
    You need to look at the lines above that for calculating D, C and I. It sounds like you're putting in your dodge concealment and incorporeal values directly instead of doing the 100-dodge etc.

  12. #12
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    If your looking at this: Miss chance % = (1-(D*C*I))*100
    You need to look at the lines above that for calculating D, C and I. It sounds like you're putting in your dodge concealment and incorporeal values directly instead of doing the 100-dodge etc.
    OK well I fail at that than I keep getting 95.6% whats the ACTUAL % for 35/50/25.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    OK well I fail at that than I keep getting 95.6% whats the ACTUAL % for 35/50/25.
    1-(1-.35)*(1-.5)*(1-.25) = .75625 or 75.625%

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    1-(1-.35)*(1-.5)*(1-.25) = .75625 or 75.625%
    Sounds pretty amazing to me
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Sounds pretty amazing to me
    Amazing is right. Pale Masters in this setup should have the best miss-chance of any class. You certainly have the best Incorporeal. Maybe only Shadowdancers as Ninja Spies can get close with getting a 25% persistent incorporeal with Shadow Form, 28% Dodge cap, but there are others who can do Displacement better and longer.

    My, this sounds more like an ad for Enzyte or something.
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