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  1. #1
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Question Dear Feather, where is my +5 tome upgrade?

    I used +2 loot gem on +2 loot weekend for a total +4 loot and this way farmed a lot of ML28 chests (did that every +2 loot weekend).
    I've got lots of ML28 trash (which confirms that chest lvl was indeed 28).

    Finally a tome dropped again from a high lvl chest (after about 4 months, which means I've looted more than 1500 chests, counting only lvl 27+ non-raid chests, most of them are EE chests), but this time it's +4 upgrade? Oh really? Where is my +5 tome upgrade (or +4 tome)?



    Max lvl is 28, so it's the maximum atm in loot table, right?
    I mean there is no point to have loot bonus in EH/EE Stormhorns chain, right?
    I've got +4 tome upgrade from lvl 28 chest. Does it mean that +5 tome upgrades no longer drop (I mean non-raid chests, and excluding 20th's rewards, also excluding Mabar and DDO Store)?

    I know that like 3 weeks ago a friend got +4 tome upgrade in stormhorns during +2 loot weekend.
    I thought that only that area was bugged (since it's new).

    It would be nice if release notes would mention such important game changes (the main reason why I've bought new pack is Stormhorns wilderness area, which is lvl27, so by the old info +5 tome upgrades should be there, but sadly, tome drops was stealth nerfed, I'm unhappy).

    Btw, isn't it a time to update the old info below (since it's no longer true)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The chance of tomes dropping is actually getting a significant increase.
    Currently on Live, every item generated in a chest has a 1 in 434 chance of being an ability score tome.
    In Update 16, those odds are increased to 1 in 333.
    The new Upgrade tomes will be a sizable percentage of all ability tome drops- for example, when a +4 tome would drop, it will instead have a 25% chance of being a +4 to +5 upgrade tome.

    Same goes for +3 tomes (which will drop in treasure chests of level 23-26): 25% of them will be a +3 to +4 upgrade tome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    ... On Live, +4 tomes follow a previously established formula, and appear in level 31 treasure. When we were releasing Menace of the Underdark, I thought that we should make them more accessible than that, so I also implemented them as bonus treasure in Epic Elite quests.

    With Update 16, I've revisited this, and received permission from my boss, Eladrin, to change the formula which determines what levels the tomes appear at in random treasure.

    In Update 16, which is currently on Lamannia, +3 tomes appear in level 23-26 treasure, and +4 tomes appear in level 27+ treasure.

  2. #2
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Come on Turbine. Your silence on this issue is doing nothing but infuriating your players. A simple WAI (and suck it players) or bug (we're fixing it) will put a lot of players minds at ease. This sort of lack of communication is what makes me want to uninstall and move to another game, not the fact that tomes were nerfed intentionally or unintentionally. I can deal with nerfs. I very much dislike silence about whether things like this are a bug/WAI. You have release notes for things like this.
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Yesterday i got a +3 to +4 tome on int upgrade from "Friends in low places" EE, yeah, it seems that the tome drops were nerfed pretty hard. But i think its a bug, i mean, it's not like they would be so miserable to make an stealth nerf to tome drops just so they could sell more of them in the store, right?




    right?

  4. #4
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    I used +2 loot gem on +2 loot weekend for a total +4 loot and this way farmed a lot of ML28 chests (did that every +2 loot weekend).
    I've got lots of ML28 trash (which confirms that chest lvl was indeed 28).

    Finally a tome dropped again from a high lvl chest (after about 4 months, which means I've looted more than 1500 chests, counting only lvl 27+ non-raid chests, most of them are EE chests), but this time it's +4 upgrade? Oh really? Where is my +5 tome upgrade (or +4 tome)?



    Max lvl is 28, so it's the maximum atm in loot table, right?
    I mean there is no point to have loot bonus in EH/EE Stormhorns chain, right?
    I've got +4 tome upgrade from lvl 28 chest. Does it mean that +5 tome upgrades no longer drop (I mean non-raid chests, and excluding 20th's rewards, also excluding Mabar and DDO Store)?

    I know that like 3 weeks ago a friend got +4 tome upgrade in stormhorns during +2 loot weekend.
    I thought that only that area was bugged (since it's new).

    It would be nice if release notes would mention such important game changes (the main reason why I've bought new pack is Stormhorns wilderness area, which is lvl27, so by the old info +5 tome upgrades should be there, but sadly, tome drops was stealth nerfed, I'm unhappy).

    Btw, isn't it a time to update the old info below (since it's no longer true)?

    End chest or side chests? The side chests have a lower chest level in that particular quest, I believe.

    Not that that's an excuse, since it seems that tomes have not dropped worth a darn since the update.
    Last edited by rest; 09-29-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  5. #5

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    I got a +5 int upgrade in ee tor yesterday (saturday), and today (sunday) I looted a +5 wis upgrade in eh Prison (can't recall which quest atm). I had a +2 loot jewel running in both cases. I also saw a guildy looting a +5 upgrade cha in ee maze of madness.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    End chest or side chests? The side chests have a lower chest level in that particular quest, I believe.
    It's a side chest.
    And no, it doesn't have lower lvl (I've got ML28 items from the same chest, and before U19 I've pulled +4 tome from that chest, it was full tome, i.e. not upgrade).
    I believe that end chest gives also tomes from EE bonus table (Shade mentioned that in his thread), but to be honest I think EE bonus table never existed (just my wild guess, anyway, drop rates from EE bonus table was never revealed, so it might be exactly zero ).

  7. #7
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    I used +2 loot gem on +2 loot weekend for a total +4 loot and this way farmed a lot of ML28 chests (did that every +2 loot weekend).
    I've got lots of ML28 trash (which confirms that chest lvl was indeed 28).

    Finally a tome dropped again from a high lvl chest (after about 4 months, which means I've looted more than 1500 chests, counting only lvl 27+ non-raid chests, most of them are EE chests), but this time it's +4 upgrade? Oh really? Where is my +5 tome upgrade (or +4 tome)?

    I've got +4 tome upgrade from lvl 28 chest. Does it mean that +5 tome upgrades no longer drop (I mean non-raid chests, and excluding 20th's rewards, also excluding Mabar and DDO Store)?
    Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun
    The chance of tomes dropping is actually getting a significant increase.Currently on Live, every item generated in a chest has a 1 in 434 chance of being an ability score tome.In Update 16, those odds are increased to 1 in 333.The new Upgrade tomes will be a sizable percentage of all ability tome drops- for example, when a +4 tome would drop, it will instead have a 25% chance of being a +4 to +5 upgrade tome.

    So, chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    I'd say with around 1500 chests looted, your sample size is too small.

    The good news is that after looting over 1500 chests the odds are that the next one you loot you'll have: a chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    Probably not the best item in the game to be grinding, but I'm impressed by your perseverance!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Max lvl is 28, so it's the maximum atm in loot table, right?
    I mean there is no point to have loot bonus in EH/EE Stormhorns chain, right?
    This is not correct. Loot tables go up to at least level 31, and possibly higher (higher level tables exist, but were not being properly implemented last I heard).

  9. #9
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    It's a side chest.
    And no, it doesn't have lower lvl (I've got ML28 items from the same chest, and before U19 I've pulled +4 tome from that chest, it was full tome, i.e. not upgrade).
    I believe that end chest gives also tomes from EE bonus table (Shade mentioned that in his thread), but to be honest I think EE bonus table never existed (just my wild guess, anyway, drop rates from EE bonus table was never revealed, so it might be exactly zero ).
    During MOTU, loot levels capped at 31. I'd assume they go higher now. (27 was the 'magic number' where good stuff started appearing - +5 upgrades, +4 straight tomes, and the highest tier of prefixes and suffixes on loot, but 27 is NOT the magic number now).

    However, ML25 items could drop from lower levels than 27. From extensive testing, I'm pretty sure that 25% of level 25 chest items that were not jewellery or clothing were ML25, and 50% of level 26 items were (Jewellery and clothing capped at ML24).

    The tables have changed a lot since then, and we simply do not know the magic level for 4-to-5 upgrades now. 27 is NOT high enough now, as I can attest to from pulling a 3-to-4 upgrade in EH Trial by Fire with a +2 gem when there was no loot event.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  10. #10
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    Dear DDO, I'm angry I didn't get what I want.

    Please explain to me the laws or probability.

    PS. I'm not doing EE storm horns or wheelon just evening star....

    With much anger.

    -Dyna


    In all seriousness, I've popped over 25+ +2 loot huge jewel of fortune gems from my 5 otto's boxes while doing a lot of eveningstar and EGH EEs (wheelon / Storm horns not open yet).

    I didn't get a +5 tome. I did get... 3-4 +3 tome - +4 upgraede tomes?

    But you know what? Evening star EE chests have never cut it for +5 tomes.
    Last edited by DynaTheCat; 09-29-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daine View Post
    So, chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    I'd say with around 1500 chests looted, your sample size is too small.

    The good news is that after looting over 1500 chests the odds are that the next one you loot you'll have: a chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    Probably not the best item in the game to be grinding, but I'm impressed by your perseverance!
    Why you assumed that I farm only tomes? And why only ability tomes?
    I farm everything on the way: named items, tomes, plat, craft xp, essences, renown, xp, etc. (lol, I just play the game a lot, my main toon should have more than 1000 raid completions).

    Quote Originally Posted by GotSomeQuestions View Post
    This is not correct. Loot tables go up to at least level 31, and possibly higher (higher level tables exist, but were not being properly implemented last I heard).
    Thanks.
    Do you have a link to official info on that?

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Antiguo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    Dear DDO, I'm angry I didn't get what I want.

    Please explain to me the laws or probability.

    PS. I'm not doing EE storm horns or wheelon just evening star....

    With much anger.

    -Dyna


    In all seriousness, I've popped over 25+ +2 loot huge jewel of fortune gems from my 5 otto's boxes while doing a lot of eveningstar and EGH EEs (wheelon / Storm horns not open yet).

    I didn't get a +5 tome. I did get... 3-4 +3 tome - +4 upgraede tomes?

    But you know what? Evening star EE chests have never cut it for +5 tomes.
    Why not? lvl22 base quest on EE running a +2 loot gem and whit a +2 loot event, eveningstar should drop tomes +4 base or +5 upgrades.

    Moneygrabbing stealth nerfs, sooo nice of Turbine...

    Oh, and that doesnt explain a wheloon prision quest on EE whit a +2 loot even either.

  13. #13
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    So you have to exclude raids and EE because they may have bonus tome drops....

    But from reading posts 3 and 5 above....
    Level 30 loot does not drop +4 tomes.
    Level 31 loot does drop +4 tomes.

    So without some kind of extra loot boost or relying on additional tome drops in EE/raid quests you have to run EE storm horns on a +2 loot weekend to get a shot at +4 tomes.

    Where as before Update 19 you only had to run High Road/Gianthold EE with a +1 loot bonus to get a shot at +4 tomes.

    That sucks!

  14. #14
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    So you have to exclude raids and EE because they may have bonus tome drops....

    But from reading posts 3 and 5 above....
    Level 30 loot does not drop +4 tomes.
    Level 31 loot does drop +4 tomes.

    So without some kind of extra loot boost or relying on additional tome drops in EE/raid quests you have to run EE storm horns on a +2 loot weekend to get a shot at +4 tomes.

    Where as before Update 19 you only had to run High Road/Gianthold EE with a +1 loot bonus to get a shot at +4 tomes.

    That sucks!
    The new quests are widely believed to have broken loot tables (for random lootgen that is).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  15. #15
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Come on Turbine. Your silence on this issue is doing nothing but infuriating your players. A simple WAI (and suck it players) or bug (we're fixing it) will put a lot of players minds at ease. This sort of lack of communication is what makes me want to uninstall and move to another game, not the fact that tomes were nerfed intentionally or unintentionally. I can deal with nerfs. I very much dislike silence about whether things like this are a bug/WAI. You have release notes for things like this.
    Perhaps this question should be taken to the LotRO forums, perhaps in the OT section? Some of the devs seem to post for both games, and their forums seem to get more attention (especially noticeable during service issues & outages).
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  16. #16

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    Thank you for submitting your ticket concerning missing +5 tomes in random loot tables. Please buy them in ddo store in the meanwhile.

  17. #17
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daine View Post

    So, chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    I'd say with around 1500 chests looted, your sample size is too small.

    The good news is that after looting over 1500 chests the odds are that the next one you loot you'll have: a chance of getting a +4 tome in a level appropriate chest: 1 in 333, chance of it getting converted to a +5 tome, 1 in 4, chance of it being the stat you want 1 in 6.

    Probably not the best item in the game to be grinding, but I'm impressed by your perseverance!
    Really, 1500 is a to small sample size? Have you taken into consideration that each chest has more then one item in it?
    Even with just one item in a chest the op should have encountered four tomes.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  18. #18
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    Really, 1500 is a to small sample size? Have you taken into consideration that each chest has more then one item in it?
    Even with just one item in a chest the op should have encountered four tomes.
    'Should have'? No.

    'Was statistically likely to' - yes.

    1500 is not at all a sufficient sample size to derive much data at all from when talking about a 0.30% probability event. Expected value is 4.5 with a standard deviation of over 2.

    Try again at 5000, that will provide statistically significant results (EV 15, SD ~4).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  19. #19

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    It was in the DDO Store just the other day...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    Thanks.
    Do you have a link to official info on that?
    Nope. The best sources of loot table data are unofficial. Or were, now that Rodrak quit for good.

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