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  1. #61
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    First, this is kind of an idiotic statement. How can you run a quest with the expectation of getting loot that has the exact prefix and suffix you want if they are randomly generated? Yeah, no one was running them for random loot…but it assumes that they could somehow control the outcome of the random loot generator.

    Second, prior to U19, the random lootgen was actually useful.
    Uh....thats what i said...its random. So you're not running quests for the random loot. We agree. So if im idiotic...

    Second, people are saying the new loot is boring, not useless. A lot of the new loot is better than named

  2. #62
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Uh....thats what i said...its random. So you're not running quests for the random loot. We agree. So if im idiotic...

    Second, people are saying the new loot is boring, not useless. A lot of the new loot is better than named
    Some random loot is worth the pursuit. We've started running the whole EE Storm Horns chain just for the shots at the Wonderous Craftman stuff like CON 10 50 HP belts.

    The rest of it is meh.

  3. #63
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    I have no problem with them reworking the old suffixes and prefixes, that seems like an odd complaint. Most the old suffixes and prefixes are vastly gimp compared to this new random gen stuff. If they didn't rework it you all would be complaining about how useless and pointless it is. If they don't ever bring it back, that's a different story.

  4. #64
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Some random loot is worth the pursuit. We've started running the whole EE Storm Horns chain just for the shots at the Wonderous Craftman stuff like CON 10 50 HP belts.

    The rest of it is meh.
    But it wasnt your reason for running the quests the first 100 times. Thats more of a commentary on a boring endgame

    Dont get me wrong, random loot is important. I dont agree with them implementing a half-a**ed, incomplete system either, but why complain about something thats obviously a work in progress

  5. #65
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    Default Making the game temporarily not fun is a bad idea

    Yeah.

    FeatherofSun or someone needs to chime in on this subject. I have a feeling they aren't because they have nothing good to say. Someone above them has made a decision for them, and they are hamstrung by it.

    Unless someone says otherwise, this is the new norm. =(

  6. #66
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Uh....thats what i said...its random. So you're not running quests for the random loot. We agree. So if im idiotic...
    It assumes that you would run a quest for random loot if the random loot was “good.” But “good” is subjective, and only works if you are able to somehow get the combination you want.

    Named loot is - more often than not - clearly better that random loot in all regards. Hence the reason you’d run a quest.

    And if they open chests and take loot that is not named loot, then they are clearly running quests for random loot. Otherwise, they’d leave it in the chest, which many people don’t.

    When you say that no one runs quests for random loot, the statement implies that no one will take random loot if it is provided to them in a chest (which is clearly false). Plus it ignores those players who don’t craft, and only use what they get in a random loot pull.

    With the exception of the fact that I craft, I don’t farm. So technically, I run quests for random loot. And surprisingly enough, my toons use a lot of loot that was randomly generated.

    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Second, people are saying the new loot is boring, not useless. A lot of the new loot is better than named
    That depends on what level you are running. Upper-level epic stuff is, in some cases, better than named loot. Below that epic threshold, the stuff sucks...badly. Specifically, the weapons. I’ve got a couple of weapons on my pally that have a ML of 16, that are still REALLY useful in lvl 20+ content. Consequently, they were generated under the old lootgen system. My fighter has a whole cache of greatswords that are ML 18 (or thereabouts) whose prefixes and suffixes are favorable in epic content. They were all pulled pre-u19.

    Now I do nothing but pull Solar and Ghostbane items…I mean almost exclusively. That handles maybe Shadows in High Road? What happened to the rest of the attributes? I mean I may bet cold, acid, and fire stuff but there are a bunch of prefixes (including poison) that are almost unheard of.

    It’s ****.

  7. #67
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Dont get me wrong, random loot is important. I dont agree with them implementing a half-a**ed, incomplete system either, but why complain about something thats obviously a work in progress
    I’m confused. The whole point of the game is to run quests. If no one runs quests for random loot, then how is random loot important?

    And I dispute the “work in progress” thing. Pre-U19 they had a decent random loot system. I went from begrudgingly using random loot, to looking at some random loot and saying, “Wow, look at this!”

    Now I look at the loot and say, “***?”

    All they needed to do was to expand some of the special attribute types (like Lacerating, or the Crusader / Tyrant / Rebel types), and give us stronger stuff for paralyzing / banishing / vorpal / etc. that had an application for epic content. Instead, what we got was…well…three steps back to the old system, with just about everything being Solar, Ghostbane, or Retributive. Blech.

  8. #68
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post

    When you say that no one runs quests for random loot, the statement implies that no one will take random loot if it is provided to them in a chest.
    ??? I have no idea where you get this, but let me clarify

    I replied to a guy who implied he doesnt wanna play the game anymore. I said that its not because of the random loot (the threads topic). People dont play or not play for random loot. It has to be the bigger issues in the game


    I

  9. #69
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I’m confused. The whole point of the game is to run quests. If no one runs quests for random loot, then how is random loot important?
    It can be important to the game without being the reason you ran the quest or are playing the game

  10. #70
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post

    And I dispute the “work in progress” thing. Pre-U19 they had a decent random loot system. I went from begrudgingly using random loot, to looking at some random loot and saying, “Wow, look at this!”.

    Just because u liked or didnt like the old system better doesnt mean this one isn't a work in progress

    Work in progress means this sysyem isnt complete. Do u really think all these prefixes/suffixes are SUPPOSED to be dropping this much? I dont. I think its busted
    Last edited by kned225; 10-03-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  11. #71
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Just because u liked or didnt like the old system better doesnt mean this one isn't a work in progress

    Work in progress means this sysyem isnt complete. Do u really think all these prefixes/suffixes are SUPPOSED to be dropping this much? I dont. I think its busted
    The problem is that the older prefixes, to my knowledge, are not dropping at all. It's like they were removed.

    I honestly think they "revamped" the whole system and scrapped the old stuff.

    And yes, I do think that these prefixes and suffixes are supposed to be dropping tis much. Turbine is the group the created the loot tables, and knows the frequency at which these things drop based on years of experience. It would only take a couple of days of playing to realize that some of these attributes are dropping at disproportionate rates. Cripes, this has been an ongoing issue since u19 dropped. We've had two fixes in that time, and I haven't personally observed any modifications on my part as to the random loot drops. I still get a truck-load of solar and Ghistbase weapons with my epic toons.

    Turbine EXPLICITLY mentioned that undead were problematic for new players, and BAM: we get Ghostbane all over the place. It's like saturation bombing.

    So no, I don't think it is a mistake, It is purposeful.

  12. #72
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I’d also like to point out that I liked the old system mainly because I was actually able to get useful stuff from it. However, re-leveling another toon I’m seeing the loot drops, and what I’m getting sorta sucks.

    I’m not exactly a real picky player when it comes to loot. I don’t farm. I’ll twink what I need to twink, but if I get something from a chest pull that is useful, I use it. The old system was striking in the fact that I had NICE combination of attributes, and a middle-tier set of weapons that were BtCoE. In short, I actually used them regularly without thinking I had to somehow “trade up” for a named item (which, I think, lasted from about U15 to U19).

    What I got prior to U15 was me dumping stuff as soon as I had a named weapon to replace it. From that point on, the random loot was decent enough that I kept it around and it was able to function well in conjunction with named items. That was rather striking.

    So, if I am seeing the clear value of the old system, I find it rather odd that others don’t as well.

  13. #73
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kned225 View Post
    Work in progress means this sysyem isnt complete.
    That is exactly the problem with the new system. They could have - should have - pieced it in. They should've replaced the old seeker with the new, the old stunning with the new, the old deathblock with the new etc. while leaving the rest of the affixes they're still "working on adapting to the new system" in place; updating & replacing more old with new as they developed them. Instead they clean slated the loot tables and only repopulated them with what they had so far. Given Turbines rich history of unfinished projects, there's good reason to be concerned with this approach.

    Turbine's history is rife with shoulda, coulda, woulda but didn't.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  14. #74
    Community Member cave_diver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Turbine's history is rife with shoulda, coulda, woulda but didn't.
    I also should add that their history is also a lot if in progress, going to get fixed/added later but never does as they seem to get fascinated with whatever new shiniey they start on.

    Squirrel!





    XP values are just place holders till release
    Last edited by cave_diver; 10-03-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesrali View Post
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  15. #75
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    That is exactly the problem with the new system. They could have - should have - pieced it in. They should've replaced the old seeker with the new, the old stunning with the new, the old deathblock with the new etc. while leaving the rest of the affixes they're still "working on adapting to the new system" in place; updating & replacing more old with new as they developed them. Instead they clean slated the loot tables and only repopulated them with what they had so far. Given Turbines rich history of unfinished projects, there's good reason to be concerned with this approach.

    Turbine's history is rife with shoulda, coulda, woulda but didn't.
    Deathblock is another one. Yeah, that's something I really need on armor for my lvl 5 rogue...

  16. #76
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    The problem is that the older prefixes, to my knowledge, are not dropping at all. It's like they were removed.

    I honestly think they "revamped" the whole system and scrapped the old stuff.

    And yes, I do think that these prefixes and suffixes are supposed to be dropping tis much. Turbine is the group the created the loot tables, and knows the frequency at which these things drop based on years of experience. It would only take a couple of days of playing to realize that some of these attributes are dropping at disproportionate rates. Cripes, this has been an ongoing issue since u19 dropped. We've had two fixes in that time, and I haven't personally observed any modifications on my part as to the random loot drops. I still get a truck-load of solar and Ghistbase weapons with my epic toons.

    Turbine EXPLICITLY mentioned that undead were problematic for new players, and BAM: we get Ghostbane all over the place. It's like saturation bombing.

    So no, I don't think it is a mistake, It is purposeful.
    This is why i think its unfinished. I think they wanted new loot for the expansion and released what they had done.

    So now every chest is like wheel of fortune without enough different money values. You get the same things over and over

    As to why they havent fixed it in the patches since u19, i bet its still not done. I bet those ppl are trying to fix things that are flat out broken. The loot works right now, its just boring, so in their minds that buys them time

  17. #77
    Community Member Certon's Avatar
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    It's odd, you know? FeatherofSun has responded to other threads more recently, but has avoided responding to this, very active, thread. In fact, no one "in the know" is responding to this thread to alleviate our concerns.

    Bad PR.

    And I am getting upset. I'm not saying I'm quitting, but dangit if I'm not contemplating it...

  18. #78
    Founder adamkatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    It's odd, you know? FeatherofSun has responded to other threads more recently, but has avoided responding to this, very active, thread. In fact, no one "in the know" is responding to this thread to alleviate our concerns.

    Bad PR.

    And I am getting upset. I'm not saying I'm quitting, but dangit if I'm not contemplating it...
    I for one wont resub until something is done.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Certon View Post
    It's odd, you know? FeatherofSun has responded to other threads more recently, but has avoided responding to this, very active, thread. In fact, no one "in the know" is responding to this thread to alleviate our concerns.
    I believe Feather is too busy fixing dead Owlbears that don't animate as undead properly or something game breaking like that.
    :-/

    To be fair, given Feather's previous good work on the loot system and the absence of dev comments, to my mind reflects that the current state of affairs was a mgmt decision, not a dev decision and not something they can fix or even provide a release date for.
    As is usual with software dev, deadlines don't move, the scope just gets changed.
    In this case, they shovelled out what they could with U19, with the rest likely to be coming soon [tm].
    Hell, update 20 or 21 will probably turn it into a positive spin with a tag line like "all new phat loot coming in the next release!"
    Maybe one of the suited folk thought it would be best to drip feed us the new loot to keep us monkeys interested?

  20. #80
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Default It's messing up the fun of named items too!

    Common random epic items seem better than most named items now, stuff that's boring but extremely helpful to stay alive in EE, like +10 dodge/resistance/protection items. New named quest reward items that always drop is too generic, does not encourage enough playing (i.e. repeating) and I do not endorse the model for future packs. The epic named stuff that's dropping for me in the new content is generally not terribly competitive with the epic random items. My horde is a mess right now.

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