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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    I just announce, that I will report everyone to the Turbine ....

    Reason: The game is not fun and I already know, .......

    so glad you know the game isnt fun. You spending your time complaining instead of seeking ways to make it enjoyable. Why not take your misery and share it with others, like trying to get gamers kicked out. yeah thats real smart. Offend EVERYONE.

    If you really cared about the gameplay isnt the exact way you like, why don't you bug report it and leave it alone? If turbine wants to do anything, they will. Stop wasting GM's time chasing down your imaginary offenders.

    in the war between bugs and exploits..... players always lose. And thats you.

    Feel free to come to Kyhber and report me...

    I need a vacation.

  2. #62
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    What I see in this thread, and every thread like this one where somebody complains about known issues that give advantages to players clever enough to figure them out. There was once a time where such things were labeled as "emergent gameplay," and people were lauded for utilizing these tools. Now, it's all a crusade by White Knights to vilify anyone who doesn't toe the line.

    This thread will not accomplish anything, and it will likely get locked at some point. Turbine has stated this is not WAI and will be fixed: in the mean time, if you don't like people using this "exploit," run your own private groups. Don't be a White Knight about this-- reporting people and being generally unpleasant about this will only ensure nobody ever groups with you.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Nope. I'm sure I've run your "Hard" quests and don't care. So enlighten me, else I'll decide it's a lie.

    I try to guide people to fun - channel/friends/guild. There are no guarantees in a pug, that's a given. Needs are never irrelevant. They're basic human rights, though I'm sure I'm trolling for pointing it out. Their wants? They pay for the game. Until recently, with no confirmation as to WAI, how were we meant to know?

    Why not? I take your intentional bait. Be a sport!

    It's also true. You are insulting me.

    It makes complete sense. Primal scream - 5 uses a rest. 400 dmg/use (give or take). 2k net dmg per rest, in 5 bursts. Fireball. 250 dmg/cast. 50 sp (meta'd with enhancements). 2k sp. 40 casts. 10k dmg. Yeah, casters do need nerfing
    However, a finger of death in IQ? Let's say 60 sp for a kill. It'd take too long with twists, so they're useless.
    But what can a melee do? Against 3k hp , doing, say, 200/hit.. 15 hits? 15 seconds?

    Completely fair!
    /facepalm

    It's not an insult to point out someone is acting like a 12 year old, especially if they happen to be 12 years old. There is no shame in that, but as an adult, I try not to waste too much time on arguments with children.

    The fact that you yourself can not name a quest that has any challenge not directly related to HP/Saves is really my point. You have a very narrow definition of challenge. I can name off the top of my head: Rainbow in the dark w/ no twitch skills, Monastery of the Scorpion when you suck at puzzles, The Crucible with no evasion, ... in fact, so elite waterworks at-level (the whole chain) without evasion or trap skills and tell me no challenge, so I can flat-out call you a liar.

    You do not have "basic human rights" in video games, kid. News flash. You relinquish them in the EULA. Here is another news flash: using twists in heroics is an exploit. EVERYONE KNOWS NOW, so acting innocent no longer flies.

    Your argument about time required to kill a mob with SP vs. Melee is irrelevant, and here is why:

    A: The ability to use twists at heroic levels is not WAI, and is in fact a confirmed bug.

    B: Spellcasters make trade-offs to be able to cast those spells, such as lower hp/ac, and nearly no melee ability. What trade-offs does a fighter make to be able to cast the spell Rejuvenation Coccoon? None.

    C: Melees can swing their weapons infinitely, while casters are limited to a pool of SP.


    The sad thing is that you know all this and are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. As you said, this is entertaining for you.
    For me, it's much less fun. I liken it to having to explain to a child why cheating is bad.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You're over thinking, I'm a narcissist when it comes to this, I just plain flat out don't care about you one way or the other, your fun and happiness mean nothing to me.
    That isn't narcissism, that's sociopathy, dude.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    I just announce, that I will report everyone to the Turbine through report tool who will use EDs at heroic level. If you want to use this exploit, do not open LFM.

    (and i havent only one toon at one server)

    Reason: The game is not fun and I already know, that you are f.... good, you dont need to demonstrate to me.
    These threads are getting old and are ignored by the devs. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS BUG EXISTS, some people use it some don't. Turbine will not banned those using it so you are wasting your own time and game resources reporting those that are. Stop whining and complaining and ask that people don't use or boot/drop if they ignore. Its pretty simple.

    On a side note, I do not use ED twists in heroics and I mostly PUG on Thelanis. I find that a very small percentage of people are actually using this bug (at least blantant twists) and if they are, a simple please don't is all it takes. But playing devils advocate, the people that are saying its because they lose the challenge, yet they will post for a caster in shadow crypt chain is not the same intent?

    Get a life OP and maybe you wont rage on the forums so much about something that is not that big of a deal anyways. Maybe move out of your parents basement, get a job and a girlfriend and then who knows you might actually use the exploit because your time is limited on DDO now.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You're over thinking, I'm a narcissist when it comes to this, I just plain flat out don't care about you one way or the other, your fun and happiness mean nothing to me.
    The same goes the other way too. In this case the OP likely doesn't give a fig how much the person using the twists enjoys doing so. They just know it's been declared not WAI and are attempting to use that as leverage to get their fun at the expense of the "exploiters" fun.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post


    What I see in this thread, and every thread like this one where somebody complains about known issues that give advantages to players clever enough to figure them out. There was once a time where such things were labeled as "emergent gameplay," and people were lauded for utilizing these tools. Now, it's all a crusade by White Knights to vilify anyone who doesn't toe the line.

    This thread will not accomplish anything, and it will likely get locked at some point. Turbine has stated this is not WAI and will be fixed: in the mean time, if you don't like people using this "exploit," run your own private groups. Don't be a White Knight about this-- reporting people and being generally unpleasant about this will only ensure nobody ever groups with you.
    +1 LOL love the Pic!!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post

    B: Spellcasters make trade-offs to be able to cast those spells, such as lower hp/ac, and nearly no melee ability. What trade-offs does a fighter make to be able to cast the spell Rejuvenation Coccoon? None.

    C: Melees can swing their weapons infinitely, while casters are limited to a pool of SP.

    You do realize that rejuvenation cocoon requires spell points to cast right? So unless you specifically multiclass for a SP pool or have some built up PL of Sorc and FVS, this 20SP cost twist is useless.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Get a life OP and maybe you wont rage on the forums so much about something that is not that big of a deal anyways. Maybe move out of your parents basement, get a job and a girlfriend and then who knows you might actually use the exploit because your time is limited on DDO now.
    This is not actually fair or accurate.

    You see, the people using the twists are TRs. People with a bunch of time to devote to this game. People that live in parents basements.

    People with jobs and lives don't really have time to research how to shave 1 sec off their completion times.

    So in fairness, flower-sniffers are much more likely to have jobs and girlfriends... just sayin. Plus, girls like flowers.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    You do realize that rejuvenation cocoon requires spell points to cast right? So unless you specifically multiclass for a SP pool or have some built up PL of Sorc and FVS, this 20SP cost twist is useless.
    I used cocoon instead of boulder toss to reflect the many twists available. Of course I realize it takes SP. if it makes you feel better, I can change it back.

    Point still remains.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    This is not actually fair or accurate.

    You see, the people using the twists are TRs. People with a bunch of time to devote to this game. People that live in parents basements.

    People with jobs and lives don't really have time to research how to shave 1 sec off their completion times.

    So in fairness, flower-sniffers are much more likely to have jobs and girlfriends... just sayin. Plus, girls like flowers.

    So you are saying you can't balance your life? I think you are mislead. People that continue to play the game and enjoy the game find balance and learn to get and keep girlfriends, have a fruitful life and still find time to play DDO, without sacrificing too much. Hence they live in their own house, make their own money and still have time to enjoy their family and pleasure their women.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Get a life OP and maybe you wont rage on the forums so much about something that is not that big of a deal anyways. Maybe move out of your parents basement, get a job and a girlfriend and then who knows you might actually use the exploit because your time is limited on DDO now.
    If you're going to meaningfully denigrate someone, the very least you can do is learn something about them. Falling back on old tropes is lazy and displays an utter lack of imagination.
    The newest computer can merely compound, at speed, the oldest problem in the relations between human beings, and in the end the communicator will be confronted with the old problem, of what to say and how to say it. - Edward R. Murrow (1964)

  13. #73
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    This is not actually fair or accurate.

    You see, the people using the twists are TRs. People with a bunch of time to devote to this game. People that live in parents basements.

    People with jobs and lives don't really have time to research how to shave 1 sec off their completion times.

    So in fairness, flower-sniffers are much more likely to have jobs and girlfriends... just sayin. Plus, girls like flowers.
    Oh here we go. The "you're so much better than I am at this game, ergo you must be a basement-dwelling nerd with no life" excuse.

    Or, they could have played this game casually over a period of several years. You do realize it has been out since 2007 (thereabouts), right?

    You just lost any shred of credibility you had with this lazy, cliched statement.

    Also, I should probably mention that TRing takes about a week now start to finish, with all the xp bonuses Turbine has graciously given us. And that's playing about two or three hours a day, hardly anything excessive. And the argument that the exploit is needed to complete a TR quickly and efficiently is a fallacy. Sure--it's FUN to walk into a room of mobs and one-shot them all with a single attack-- but you don't need it. People did TRs efficiently for years without it.
    Last edited by djl; 09-29-2013 at 10:38 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    I used cocoon instead of boulder toss to reflect the many twists available. Of course I realize it takes SP. if it makes you feel better, I can change it back.

    Point still remains.
    No because your point was about spellcasters having a finite amount of mana pool and limited melee ability. Most wont be able to take advantage of cocoon or have virtual unlimited uses. Boulder Toss is a better example IMO, but it also has a cooldown so its not likely to be spammed. And spellcasters can make good melees with a TH weapon. I do it all the time at low levels.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    If you're going to meaningfully denigrate someone, the very least you can do is learn something about them. Falling back on old tropes is lazy and displays an utter lack of imagination.
    Too much more of that and I might have to give you positive rep....

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebastianosmith View Post
    If you're going to meaningfully denigrate someone, the very least you can do is learn something about them. Falling back on old tropes is lazy and displays an utter lack of imagination.
    The point is to discourage these hundreds of controversial threads, not encourage them.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    The point is to discourage these hundreds of controversial threads, not encourage them.
    But pulling out the "basement dwelling nerd" trope just makes YOU look silly, and whatever point you were trying to get across ends up being lost.

    Attack the argument, not the arguer.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Oh here we go. The "you're so much better than I am at this game, ergo you must be a basement-dwelling nerd with no life" excuse.

    Or, they could have played this game casually over a period of several years. You do realize it has been out since 2007 (thereabouts), right?

    You just lost any shred of credibility you had with this lazy, cliched statement.

    Also, I should probably mention that TRing takes about a week now start to finish, with all the xp bonuses Turbine has graciously given us. And that's playing about two or three hours a day, hardly anything excessive.

    1. TRing does not make you better at playing the game. In fact, skipping the difficult content in favor of xp/min probably makes you a worse player.

    2. Yes, I am fully aware of when the game was released. I am also aware that some people have been playing since that date, and might not even have ONE capped toon.

    3. I actually didn't make this statement, I was replying to and rebutting it.

    4. 3 hours a day times 7 days a week equals 21 hours a week (equivalent to a part-time job). There are many who might actually find that a bit excessive. Also, I challenge you to get through a third life in 21 hours.

    5. Not everyone has every xp bonus known to man. If you are running an xp pot, an xp tome, an xp shrine, and an xp item, more power to you, but not everyone has these resources available.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    But pulling out the "basement dwelling nerd" trope just makes YOU look silly, and whatever point you were trying to get across ends up being lost.

    Attack the argument, not the arguer.
    That is your opinion...my opinion is that if you think I care at all about my forum reputation then you are mistaken. I have real life friends and relationships and that is what matters to me. Not a virtual reality.

  20. #80
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncleblue View Post
    1. TRing does not make you better at playing the game. In fact, skipping the difficult content in favor of xp/min probably makes you a worse player.

    2. Yes, I am fully aware of when the game was released. I am also aware that some people have been playing since that date, and might not even have ONE capped toon.

    3. I actually didn't make this statement, I was replying to and rebutting it.

    4. 3 hours a day times 7 days a week equals 21 hours a week (equivalent to a part-time job). There are many who might actually find that a bit excessive. Also, I challenge you to get through a third life in 21 hours.

    5. Not everyone has every xp bonus known to man. If you are running an xp pot, an xp tome, an xp shrine, and an xp item, more power to you, but not everyone has these resources available.
    1) I agree, in fact some of the worst players I've seen are ones with several past lives. They are very good as zerging through to 20, but can't keep up in EE quests.

    2) Not sure how that would be possible, unless somebody abandons his or her toons and rolls a new one as soon as they get to level 15. It seems like an inevitability that after playing for several YEARS, one would eventually get enough exp to reach level 20.

    3) I see, well in that case I apologize for my rebuttal to your rebuttal :P

    4 & 5) Before U19, I capped out a third life on my Sorc in 6 days. I have no idea how much time I actually spent doing that, however. It was likely more than 21 hours total. Anyway, you missed what I was getting at. Namely, that TRing isn't that difficult anymore. Sure, not everybody has the bonuses or the time to do it in a week or two, but it is SO much easier now than ever before. Nobody needs these twists to make TRs fast or easy. They certainly make it more entertaining, especially for experienced veterans who have "been there, done that" many times, but they are hardly "necessary."

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