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  1. #1
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    Post DDO losing steam

    Hey all,just wanted to see if im the only one feeling this way. I think DDO is on the way out,i find myself more an more logging in looking at whos on in my guild,checking my auctions and checking the channel chatter for a min then looking at the lfm and then logging off. i just cant justify the grind anymore. i tire of doing the same quests for the billionth time,and running thru them with a tr'd slightly more powerful character or even an all new build just isnt doing it any more. the game is just a boring grind fest for me now,that just mainly serves as a place to chat with my friends and guildies while we mindlessly go thru the motions of completing a quest weve all done a zillion times. that one saving grace of community is just not worth it any more.

    With new things like the elder scrolls online coming up,and games like final fantasy 14 promising new content every 3 monthes and guild wars 2 offering new content EVERY 2 WEEKS FOR FREE!(with only your monthly sub fee which is comparable to turbines VIP fee,which i pay)turbine just cant keep up. i think ddo just doesnt have the WOW type crowd thats going to keep it going forever,id really like to see it put down for good,and maybe turbine begin work on a modernization of the concept,because i love D&D and thats really the only people that are left it seems,the hardcore D&D crowd,and rightfully so as it is the best digital option for such fans(neverwinter... eww...),iv seen many new players come,hit cap a month or so later and then go because of a loss of interest or no desire to play through the quest lines again ,new players have been fleeting at best.

    I dont want to be that guy,but im being that guy,lol. i just dont care for it anymore,its too old,too grindy,and the community is shrinking and shrinking,smaller and smaller into these tight knit groups of vets who are completely removed from new players(by choice) through user channels and guilds,every one exists in their own little bubbles.so new players come in and dont know that,and are all like "? where all the lfms? does no one play this game? im out".

    -cue the "bye-bye,go ahead and leave" replys,lol. just wanted to vent my frustration about something iv loved for years now,and express some probobly departing words.
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 09-29-2013 at 07:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Wall of text aside, I think most people feel this way.

    There is no end-game, so why bother TRing for tiny benefits you don't need. Why bother trying to grind out a pair of Shadowsight Goggles on EE when you already have a QP DC high enough to instakill every mob in the game with a good success rate? Why run anything, really?

    There's nothing to aspire to, anymore. No uber challenging raid, no difficult quests to try to complete.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Wall of text aside, I think most people feel this way.

    There is no end-game, so why bother TRing for tiny benefits you don't need. Why bother trying to grind out a pair of Shadowsight Goggles on EE when you already have a QP DC high enough to instakill every mob in the game with a good success rate? Why run anything, really?

    There's nothing to aspire to, anymore. No uber challenging raid, no difficult quests to try to complete.
    aye, sry for the TLDR format,lol went back and broke it up a bit for grammars sake :P (never was a big writer or forumite)

  4. #4
    Community Member Drus-the-Axe's Avatar
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    Default Doom! Dooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

    I see the Ghost of Xmas Doom is making his regular appearance :P

    i think ddo just doesnt have the WOW type crowd thats going to keep it going forever
    Nothing does. Not even WoW.

    OK. Maybe EVE does :P Exception proving the rule.

    So? Nothing lasts forever. That said, DDO may be past its youth, but doesn't seem to be in its dotage yet.

    If you've noticed DDO has fewer players than a few years ago, then, yes, you're quite observant. I remember when the marketplace could have 5 instances on a busy day, not the peak I see is 3 (on the couple of servers I regularly solicit and noticed). Yet same number of servers etc so yes, there do seem to be fewer players at peak times.

    As for your concern about "game X is shiny and new and offering more shinies and new than DDO", all I can say is... Eh. Elder Scrolls holds zero interest for me. Ditto FF. GW2 had potential, played it for a month, then found it to be too "Meh" and have trouble even caring to run the launcher and patch, let alone play at all. Neverwinter was the last supposed next-shiny-new-nail-in-DDO's-coffin... And then it was released. And people saw yes, it's shiny and new. But not what most expected (or hoped), and didn't come close to matching the hyped expectations. SWTOR before that was a big 'industry moment', and yet that didn't crush everything around it.

    DDO does have some issues around attracting and retaining new players. MMOs are like sharks, they need to keep moving and consuming more, else eventually if they sit still too long they day. DDO's not at that point yet, but one can certainly conceive of such a day. That said, Ultima Online is still(!) running, so DDO can have a very long life yet (albeit perhaps not as actively developed as today).


    To your thought of 'modernization', in what way?

    Game mechanics? DDO is the only D&D game in town, and the only one remotely like it, if you consider D&D <= 3.5 edition.
    Many (myself included) consider 4th edition an entirely different game mistakenly labeled D&D... Regardless of the name, in terms of mechanic DDO is the only thing remotely like D&D <=3.5...
    Perhaps Pathfinder Online will make it to release, and in a form remotely like D&D 3.5 and the better parts of DDO. But release is still a ways off, and as we've seen many times over, release of an MMO is more of a whiff of the future. Come back a couple of years later when mechanics and content have been fleshed out and see if it hits the target you're thinking of.

    That said, I'm heartened by Project Eternity and Tides of Numera. Not D&D perhaps, but created by folks with oodles of experience in what appealed in D&D (offline and on).

    What else? Game engine? Turbine's been incrementally improving it over the years (even if you can't always see much of it on the surface).

    Graphic assets? Aye. Now there's the rub. Eberron looks...grimier, than Faerun. But going back to old art and wholesale revising to Faerun caliber is... well, if you don't know the technical details, let's just say it's a monstrous time sink. The ROI for such a wholesale effort is likely to be poor for a very long time. The best shot is for a heroic quest to be epic-ized, though even there the art effort can be hard to justify.

    DDO's gained quite a bit in recent years. HElves and HOrcs. Arti and Druid. Even the many years discussed Enhancement pass (which still isn't quite done yet - Acolyte of Skin and a few other thinner areas indicate). Gnome is the only iconic race missing, though it's hard to see how much value they'd bring. Popular no doubt, but what role or niche can they fill that's not already well covered? Though as we've seen with the recent iconics perhaps there's other more valued races (plane touched, for one). Hall of Heroes is also barely scratched. It could be very interesting if it becomes a gateway to other realms (though again, lots of content needed).

    We already know Turbine plans to grow levelcap to 30, and higher level content is a bit thin so undoubtedly there's more high level quests coming.

    There seem to be several segments of DDO players. Those who race to levelcap and want to hang there for an 'endgame' seem to be regularly vocal about their disappointment. Fair enough, but many players never even get close to that so how much time/$ is worth building content and mechanics and shiny for that segment vs others? What % are 'endgame dwellers', what are mainly heroic and TR and repeat, and how many never make it past level 3 or 8 or whatever, to name a few? Only Turbine truly knows. But of those 3 sets of players, only #1 is vocal. Which is to be expected, given the endgame is 'weak' according to some, DDO largely meets #2 today and #3 are the transient casual players that pass through.

    The interesting question to me is, how far do people in categories 2+3 usually get and then fade away? The Harbor revamp seems intended to increase that newer-player-retention. How well is that panning out? How about the level 10-20 'plateaus'? The teens have always had fewer quests (and fewer newer/good/popular quests) than levels 1-10. One can easily hit level 10 and not run every level-appropriate quest (even if you want to) on a 1st life, but it's hard to make the same claim for many levels in the teens. Many hit 18 and bank a level so they can pop to 20. I thought Turbine was planning to change the xp-per-level ratio to help address this (e.g. require more xp at lower levels and a bit less at higher, to take advantage of the greater quest options in the <lvl10 vs >lvl10), but this doesn't seem to have happened (yet?).


    If I sound dismissive of your concerns you have my apologies. That's not my intent.
    There _are_ some strategic weaknesses I (and others) hope Turbine takes steps to address. But it's not as Sturm'und'Drung as you seem to imply.



    This is a long winded way of saying "Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom. Again. Must be lunch time."

  5. #5
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Wall of text aside, I think most people feel this way.

    There is no end-game, so why bother TRing for tiny benefits you don't need. Why bother trying to grind out a pair of Shadowsight Goggles on EE when you already have a QP DC high enough to instakill every mob in the game with a good success rate? Why run anything, really?

    There's nothing to aspire to, anymore. No uber challenging raid, no difficult quests to try to complete.
    I tr because I like playing those quests, they are fun.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Wall of text aside, I think most people feel this way.

    There is no end-game, so why bother TRing for tiny benefits you don't need. Why bother trying to grind out a pair of Shadowsight Goggles on EE when you already have a QP DC high enough to instakill every mob in the game with a good success rate? Why run anything, really?

    There's nothing to aspire to, anymore. No uber challenging raid, no difficult quests to try to complete.
    I don't think most feel that way and you have zero to base that on as I see lots of groups running a wide level of quest on both my main servers. Not everyone plays games for the end game I don't I have never even finished flagging for citw nor ran any of the newest content I like low to mid level stuff and wish I could tr more often as I do,have favorite quests and characters so to keep in the range I enjoy more I make a lot of alts and never have trouble finding a group any time of day. So no I don't see the game losing steam!


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  7. #7

    Default game is not on it's way out

    it is just slow every year around this time. With school for some extra work to save for the holidays for others. Personally I have no problem finding parties. If I don't see a LFM I want to join I make my own. I run a small guild (mostly friends) so no problems there. AH was hit hard when the Shard market came out. If you want anything good it's on the shard market. This game has proved time and time again it has staying power. Once perma cap (level 30) comes things will really start picking up again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    it is just slow every year around this time. With school for some extra work to save for the holidays for others. Personally I have no problem finding parties. If I don't see a LFM I want to join I make my own. I run a small guild (mostly friends) so no problems there. AH was hit hard when the Shard market came out. If you want anything good it's on the shard market. This game has proved time and time again it has staying power. Once perma cap (level 30) comes things will really start picking up again.
    id really like to see more content more often,that would keep me interested. and not "expansions" for 50$ a pop,i mean just little 2-5 quest long packs for a few hundred TP or free for VIPs like the old days. with the age of this engine and all the years of experience they have with it,you would think they could come out with one of these AT LEAST every 2-3 months if not every month.

  9. #9
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    it is just slow every year around this time. With school for some extra work to save for the holidays for others. Personally I have no problem finding parties. If I don't see a LFM I want to join I make my own. I run a small guild (mostly friends) so no problems there. AH was hit hard when the Shard market came out. If you want anything good it's on the shard market. This game has proved time and time again it has staying power. Once perma cap (level 30) comes things will really start picking up again.
    2 months ago it was slow because it was summer and now it's slow because schools back?

    Asah killed the ah and the new loot changes killed the asah.

    An expansion was released less than 2 months ago, and no one plays level cap because there is nothing to aspire to run.

    As for the perma 30 cap, that means any real improvement would be 2 years away, the game is going to be getting down to close some servers status in 6 months if things don't do a 180.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    2 months ago it was slow because it was summer and now it's slow because schools back?

    Asah killed the ah and the new loot changes killed the asah.

    An expansion was released less than 2 months ago, and no one plays level cap because there is nothing to aspire to run.

    As for the perma 30 cap, that means any real improvement would be 2 years away, the game is going to be getting down to close some servers status in 6 months if things don't do a 180.
    ^^^ this.
    thats what i was thinking."its just slow becasue summer,o its just slow because winter,fall,spring break,natural disaster,new season of the daily show,new pop tarts flavor." lol. always the same.

  11. #11
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gripshift22 View Post
    ^^^ this.
    thats what i was thinking."its just slow becasue summer,o its just slow because winter,fall,spring break,natural disaster,new season of the daily show,new pop tarts flavor." lol. always the same.
    Just out of curiosity, exactly how long has it been "always the same"?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gripshift22 View Post
    ^^^ this.
    thats what i was thinking."its just slow becasue summer,o its just slow because winter,fall,spring break,natural disaster,new season of the daily show,new pop tarts flavor." lol. always the same.
    I could be wrong since it's been a while; but I coulda sworn people swarmed in around Mabar season back in the day.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gripshift22 View Post
    ...,new pop tarts flavor." lol. ...
    Actually, the new Peanut Butter Pop-Tarts aren't worth skipping WW for.



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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    2 months ago it was slow because it was summer and now it's slow because schools back?
    That is by far my favorite argument from the "all is fine" crowd.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That is by far my favorite argument from the "all is fine" crowd.
    I'm always eager and excited as a sparkling bunny to hear from the "realistic proposals on how we can improve the current situation" crowd.

    Oh course, most of the spineless member of that particular brigade to tend to cry that there's no point to their suggestion. It gives them an easy excuse to offer nothing productive.

    There are plenty of things that can be improved with the current game, and now we have a hardcap of 30 on the next-year horizon, what would you like to see prioritised for improvement?

    My vote is still firmly for a properly detailed character sheet and increased bank and inventory space to facilitate epic TRing and the new enhancements. After that, I'll accept content as a second priority.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    2 months ago it was slow because it was summer and now it's slow because schools back?

    Asah killed the ah and the new loot changes killed the asah.

    An expansion was released less than 2 months ago, and no one plays level cap because there is nothing to aspire to run.

    As for the perma 30 cap, that means any real improvement would be 2 years away, the game is going to be getting down to close some servers status in 6 months if things don't do a 180.
    I agree with this the new expansion is a complete failure, well I like the new enhancements but op random loot just killed the game a little and most of my guildies are not logging in anymore.

    I did warn Turbine that releasing no raids would cripple the game.

    lfm´s are down channels are down but Turbine give me a 180 pls because I love this game.
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post

    Asah killed the ah and the new loot changes killed the asah.
    I do believe this is a problem. The shard auction was (in my opinion) the worst thing ever done to the game. Now with the new random loot, there is very little reason to grind out the epic sword of shadows I have been trying to get for 4+ years.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by gripshift22 View Post
    id really like to see more content more often,that would keep me interested. and not "expansions" for 50$ a pop,i mean just little 2-5 quest long packs for a few hundred TP or free for VIPs like the old days. with the age of this engine and all the years of experience they have with it,you would think they could come out with one of these AT LEAST every 2-3 months if not every month.
    With an engine this old alpha and beta testing takes time. In the past year we have gotten 5 updates and and 9 patches that's not counting hotfixes. Even some of the big games don't get that many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    With an engine this old alpha and beta testing takes time. In the past year we have gotten 5 updates and and 9 patches that's not counting hotfixes. Even some of the big games don't get that many.
    i dunno... guild wars 2 is promising new content EVERY 2 WEEKS,thats something,never played GW or GW2,but that alone is making me give it a whirl.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gripshift22 View Post
    i dunno... guild wars 2 is promising new content EVERY 2 WEEKS,thats something,never played GW or GW2,but that alone is making me give it a whirl.

    Yeah rushed and dumbed down content isn't really good long term either.

    Basically Turbine has ruined their own game. They won't talk to us, they won't outline their plans/goals for the game. They do a terrible job marketing the game to THEIR OWN players.

    All MMO's are really hurting. Market is saturated and there is really very little new or innovative out there. Add in 7 year burn out from many long term players in this game (like me) and it's no wonder we are where we are.

    But I don't think the game is "dying"...yet. A dying game is when players leave, with no plans to ever come back. In the case of DDO there are a lot of players out there, who have indeed stopped playing, but are always watching, looking and hoping that Turbine finally gets it. Turbine still has the ability to hit one out of the park and draw back in those players who are currently on the sidelines.
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