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  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    you really need to decide what direction you are interested in going in. Druids have a lot of options. I currently play a caster druid and have been 2-manning epic-elite (with a FvS). The only EE we have yet to do are the stormhorns. I say this to tell you what my perspective is.

    Secondly all the advice below is focused to being viable in EE play.

    In order to land your spells in EE (earthquake and blind mostly) you really have to pump evocation all the way, every point really counts. This means that among other things your feat list is very limited and your almost required to be in water form for the -4 reflex saves. If in this case your splashing monk for extra melee damage you can eather go water elemental form or wolf form. But in both cases a build like this is takeing monk for the stunning fist. For animal form I would suggest you only take stunning fist and improved critical. The rest of the stuff mentioned by these posters will increase your DPS but not as much as those to feats would and you are very feet starved. If you plan on staying in water form then your better off with IC + the TWF line for your damage bonus. The up-side of this is that you still get that nice water form debuff. The down side is it costs more feats.

    In both cases you want a 17/3 split and max wisdom.

    I would suggest something like:
    Epic Evocation
    empower healing
    Stunning fist

    IC if wolf + toughness/epic toughness
    TWF line if elemental

    or something along thoes lines.

    If your not planning on being able to land earthquake in EE and just want to be a melee healer then you should not focus on spell DC at all.

    If you are only interested in running hard then disregard all of the above and just twist in energy burst.
    I had considered the 17/3 split but ultimately went with the 18/2 instead. Here is what you gain from 3 monk:

    faster run speed
    finishing moves which are based on monk level for DC, a few handy ones -25% mana and earthdragon
    BAB ?

    Here is what you gain for 18 druid

    Level 9 spell slot - snowslide which is runspeed basically
    2 core enhancements, sla storm of vengeance, 1 dmg 1d6 sneak and prr for bear

    (Could easily build tankish bear if you go for the prr. 20 bear, 15 earth stance, 15 shinatao, 15 flowers ed, 14 blue slot very high dodge and AC, threat from earthstance, spell threat from roar)

    Storm of vengeance SLA is important because I wouldn't have it prepped otherwise and it is an important spell for debuffing for CC with annual susurrus.

    My original build had thought of taking the entire evocation DC line. I took just one to open up ED twists which the -10 to save proc is the most vital. I haven't found that missing that 2 dc for 2 feats have made a difference yet in EE. Done Wheeldon but not stormhorns. Druids are feat starved, I opted for dodge and empower healing on the pure 20 druid. I do switch to water elemental if CC isn't landing and take one for the team. Monk splash for CC with stances I'd gain an additional 4 wisdom from water stance. Still have 5 wisdom from enhancements, 2 nature's warrior, 2 herald, 1 human with the option to add another 2 from boosts if I wanted. This splash I would gain 2 dc if I desired to be in water stance. I run with a bard 90% of the time so I do get inspire and song which might be why I can get away with saving two feats.

    Note on dodge and four good legs. I just ran EH tor last night for farming some helmets and not having this was noticeable. Random giant knockdown, jarilith trip, dragon tail swipes all put me down when NONE of that did before. I quickly got it back after that run. Getting knocked down is the number 2 cause of death. #1 is failing reflex saves. Monk splash addresses this.

    I would consider heighten a needed feat for lightning bolt SLA, sunbeam for blinds, a lot of DC for jaws of winter and gain the same 1 dc for earthquake.

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    So I stepped into POP EE for some testing. First fighter mob pulled solo. No ship buffs, same +6 scimitar, only ram's might and magic fang as a spells. I did not get what I was expecting.

    With 42 attack bonus on character sheet using sword and shield, miss on 1, grazing on 2-7 and hits on the rest.

    With 58 attack bonus on character sheeting using sword and shield vs same mob in wolf form with magic fang, miss on 1, grazing on 2-7 and hits on rest.

    I'm perplexed. Why is there so much grazing hit and why isn't there at least a spread for a difference with the different attack bonuses?

    Turned off precision:

    Sword shield - 9 grazing
    Wolf - 8 grazing

    Mob blinded with precision off

    Sword Shield - 7 grazing
    Wolf - 7 grazing

    Mob blinded with precision on

    Sword and shield - 6 grazing
    Wolf - 6 grazing

    Something seems off. Is there no flanking bonus to blinded mobs or is that totally positional?

  3. #23
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldraven View Post
    You're looking at it from the wrong perspective on speed vs. a Monk.

    A level 20 monk moves at a base of 90 feet per round, which calculates out to 15 feet per second, at a walk. At a full run, with the Run Feat, it's 75 feet per second. That's 450 feet a round. That's 4,500 feet a minute. 270,000 feet an hour. That's 51.1363636363636... etc Miles per Hour. It's supernaturally fast. It can be even faster with gear, like the Boots of Striding and Springing, which add 10 feet to the base calculation, Feats like Dash, which add another 5, Psionic feats like Speed of Thought for another 10, etc. etc. Not to mention spells like Expeditious retreat...

    Basically, you're complaining that a Druid transformed into a wolf isn't faster than someone who has a landspeed capable of hustling on Interstates. The Monk ain't fully mortal after a certain point, and a lot of their powers are blatantly supernatural, one of the most visible being the fact that their jogging speed makes Usain Bolt look like a slowpoke.
    I see what you're saying, but I think your logic is a bit clouded by your monk love.

    First off, in my point I'm clearly talking about base speed. Secondly, you mention gear. Everyone can get the same or very similar gear for moving quickly, including spells like expeditious retreat. So that's not really an issue in a side by side comparison. Lastly, your claim that a monk is supernatural so there's no comparison does not take into consideration that a man turning into a wolf is also supernatural. Now clearly once we get into supernatural issues, everything goes out the window because... well, it's "magic".

    But the point is that the base speed of a natural human is typically about half the base speed of a wolf. Or even a bear, although the bear's speed and the human's speed are short sprints while the wolf can sustain fairly significant speeds for quite a while. Sure you can put magic boots on them and cast haste and other quickening spells on them, but they will both get the same degree of advantage from those boosts. The base speed is where the issue lies.

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