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  1. #1

    Default Turbine - a simple proposal to revive the raid scene and to help with old epic loot

    The proposal is simple and won't require a lot of dev time. Add heroic comms to all epic raids and make the greater token a guaranteed drop.

    Background:
    There are currently 3 things that require comms - unlocking pdk things like set bonuses and raid loot, FoT raid loot and dragon armor along with augments.

    Problem: There are only two raids that drop comms, they are not run regularly and only one raid that drops them automatically. Citw is a chance with only guaranteed on Epic Elite.

    Solution:
    Citw becomes an automatic drop for comms. It's a long raid and there's very little reason to run in after you pull your item. Unlike previous epic raids that had not only items going for them but greater tokens and shards.
    FoT stays the same - it's the perfect short raid
    All other Epic raids become automatic drops for greater tokens. It's currently needed for one augment recipe and turn in for other augments, but it's close to impossible to find a raid going and since it's not an automatic drop it's always a hit or miss. They also get a chance for comms - drop chance similar to how citw is now.

    Expanding options:
    By adding more possible comm drops it adds more sources of comms. This is especially good since there are some classes that benefit from more then one citw items and it's true when it comes to FoT. By increasing the sources and make greater tokens an automatic drop, it also provides an incentive for people to pursue things like the heroic augment and provide a reliable option to create the greater token specific augments over buying them from the store.
    More importantly, this will be useful if Turbine release more ways of using comms and I also suggest an additional use for it; comms in lieu of shards, seals and scrolls. The problem I see is that there are still some useful Epic items. Not only because of the ETR coming (starting from level 20) but also because there are some unique items and features you do not find in any of the higher end ML items.
    I suggest 2 comms for replacing seals and scrolls and 3 for shards. It can either be done as inclusion in the recipe - that by adding 3 comms together with the seal and the scroll you unlock the epic power, or simply put it in and pick the type of scroll, seal or shard you want.
    There's also possible that you might want to use existing shards and seals to convert to desired shard or seal, like it can be done with Sand scrolls right now. But by expanding the use of comm, both by dropping in older epic raids and to be used like this - you provide an incentive for these raids to run more frequent other then for sake of curiously. Plus it helps people who fruitlessly runs hundreds of raids just for the one thing.

    Risk: That it makes 'getting old epic items' easy. Personally I don't think that should be of any concern - as I see it you can find far more potent items (for most part) today in a EN, EH and EE version on the market. This system still involves a proper amount of grind - first to get the item then to get the comm. That will most likely take longer then trying to grind out the current EN, EH, EE things in quests, simply for the fact that you can buy them with shards.
    Plus this won't lead to a specific glut on the market. Comms are BTC, as well as all epic items. No one can trade for these items and you still have to run the specific raid or quest for the item and raid for the comms. This provides enough time sink without the frustration of an entirely random system.

    In short - conclusion:
    A simple change like this provides a incentive for people to run more raids, if only for the comms. It provides enough time sink and is less arbitrary in regards to how often specific things drop. It also helps with current high end raids including possible future sharing the same mechanic. And with the coming ETR it helps people gear up with what they already own but can't unlock or might possibly want to grind at the same time as they level in ETR.
    Last edited by patang01; 09-27-2013 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    There is a lot they could do to revive the raid scene by making things drop. Make all kinds of gargantuan bags drop at tome drop rates for example would have a lot of people running them. A raid that had cakes drop in the end chest at a 25% rate woudl be run every three days by a lot of people... maybe not the elite of the elite that never ever die and kill EE raid bosses by sneezing, but others would run it religiously. Your suggestions would also definitely increase raid traffic.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    There are 3 things that require heroic comms, and 2 sources of it. Turbine would best help the raid scene by reverting their "Epic (raid) Tokens are an Eberron only thing, which we'll ignore for Gianthold anyway" decision and turn all the Heroic Comms into Raid tokens.

    Economically speaking, if you're concerned that a currency is inflated/devalued, the solution isn't to abandon it and start a new currency.

    (Or vice versa, if "Epic Raid Token" is too generic of a name.)


    And since the Mabar Mega-raid has never worked ideally, instead of Signets of Nights, have the first completion of the day drop 2 Epic Raid Tokens, and inflate the prices accordingly. It'll give the weekend warriors an opportunity to participate and get their goodies, and still provide incentive for hardcore min/maxxing grinders to play in the event.
    Last edited by Systern; 09-27-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    As someone who has been berated on the forums because of my viewpoint on raids, I will say this. We do NOT need to make old raids relevant again. They are what they are. Let's spend development time on NEW things, NEW raids, NEW loot, things that are currently relevant, and have more options. I'm sure even grinders would like to have something new to do instead of the same raids they've been grinding for the past five years...
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    As someone who has been berated on the forums because of my viewpoint on raids, I will say this. We do NOT need to make old raids relevant again. They are what they are. Let's spend development time on NEW things, NEW raids, NEW loot, things that are currently relevant, and have more options. I'm sure even grinders would like to have something new to do instead of the same raids they've been grinding for the past five years...
    My suggestion is simply to aid what we have now. I'm all for making new raids and they're already working on a new raid. But this won't require a lot of dev time - they could add a comm drop chance and that be a tremendous boon, or even add the other two suggestions about greater tokens and replacement for shards, seals and drops with comms. All in all a very simple change with a greater incentive to occupy our time while the develop more content.

    And I would not want more loot unless it's unique and perhaps even similar to greensteel where you 'make' what you want. One of the greatest problems we have now is that there's just way to many things with far to few interesting features that crashes the market value, provides very little effort to get and is almost not worth grinding for (just buy it). The only exception is citw loot, dragon armor and helmet (that you can buy other then the comms to unlock said armor) and FoT loot (which is except for a few items pretty bad).

    My suggestion is to improve now so we can occupy our time between now, ETR and later on new content and features.

  6. #6
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    Give any raid on EE a chance to drop the +6 tomes that didn't make it to Mabar.

  7. #7
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    I would prefer if coms could allow to improve old epic loots. This way, you would still need to play the old epics for base item, and the new raids to make it better, in a similar way to Citw or FoT drops.
    The improvement would increase the base level of the items: Level 20 - basic epic item ; level 24 - tier 1 (1 com) ; level 28 - tier 2 (3 coms), or something like this.
    To reduce the grind of old epics, you just need to implement an exchange of seals and/or shards similar to scrolls in desert sand: 3 for 1.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    I would prefer if coms could allow to improve old epic loots. This way, you would still need to play the old epics for base item, and the new raids to make it better, in a similar way to Citw or FoT drops.
    The improvement would increase the base level of the items: Level 20 - basic epic item ; level 24 - tier 1 (1 com) ; level 28 - tier 2 (3 coms), or something like this.
    To reduce the grind of old epics, you just need to implement an exchange of seals and/or shards similar to scrolls in desert sand: 3 for 1.
    That would be nice too, but that would require more dev time. I'm not against the idea - it's similar to things I've and others have mentioned in other threads. But I do believe it would require an entire update dev time which of course means less time for future content.

    I'm all for a epic item overpass - there's certainly lots of loot that could benefit from a change like that. Such as adding augment slots to red fen items and such.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    As someone who has been berated on the forums because of my viewpoint on raids, I will say this. We do NOT need to make old raids relevant again. They are what they are. Let's spend development time on NEW things, NEW raids, NEW loot, things that are currently relevant, and have more options. I'm sure even grinders would like to have something new to do instead of the same raids they've been grinding for the past five years...
    I'm not going to berate you, but your viewpoint doesn't take into account the relative amounts of effort required. Revitalizing an old raid takes a tiny fraction of the development effort of creating a whole new one. I personally would much rather see 6 raids freshened up so people want to run them, rather than just 1 new one -- and really, all 6 fix-ups would be easier than a single addition.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    As someone who has been berated on the forums because of my viewpoint on raids, I will say this. We do NOT need to make old raids relevant again. They are what they are. Let's spend development time on NEW things, NEW raids, NEW loot, things that are currently relevant, and have more options. I'm sure even grinders would like to have something new to do instead of the same raids they've been grinding for the past five years...
    Takes too long, costs too much, will never get done.

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