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  1. #41
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    An experienced player who wants to build a character with self healing ability should have no trouble at all IMO.
    New guys... are a different story.

    Race is a big issue.
    some classes are more difficult than others.

    to UMD or not to UMD; that is the question.

    To dump Cha or not...

    To take Skill focus UMD or not...


    Let me mention that healing amp makes a huge HUGE! really BIG! difference.

    And those who can cast spells need to decide how many feats to devote to healing. (max, Emp, Emp Heal)
    and how many skill points to Heal skill.
    (btw, self healing with spells takes a bunch of SP)

    Enhancements. (deepwoods stalker for Rgrs for example)
    Heal amp for humans. etc.

    eventually epic destinies/twists

    It really just has to be a priority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  2. #42
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    100% on heal scrolls at lvl 13 (when i take 2nd rogue lvl), no fail on traps, non outstanding reflexes (at least can push a bit with uncanny) as being horc
    Okay, but what sacrifices did you make in order to achieve that? What gear is involved? This thread is about new players. How many new players are going to have no fail Heal scrolls by level 13 without severely gimping their Barbarians?
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Still some unanswered questions though...for example, how can an Int dump 2 rogue splash get full UMD?
    Seems pretty obvious to me: Don't dump int.

    I'm not overly fond of self-healing through umd; it feels weak and clunky to me. I've all but abandoned it on all my builds, though I still can do it as a backup due to getting 40+ UMD for other things.

  4. #44
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    One option I don't think has been mentioned is a cheat life...a 6/6/8 splash where the 6/6 does all the work and the /8 can be whatever you want the PL credit for. Something like a WF 6 Arti/6 Rgr repeater build will have a nice offensive toolbox, plus Cure Serious as a bluebar spell. Might help with lives like Barb where its just too onerous. Or a 6 Rgr/6 Monk monkcher, for anything but Barb/Barb.

    The melee version might be 2 Rogue/8 Cleric/10 XXX, where you get Evasion, some offensive attacks, and Cure Critical among other good Cleric spells - especially if your XXX class granted you some Martial proficiencies, or you wanted to go with an Exotic weapon anyway.

  5. #45
    Community Member Pank's Avatar
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    Don't know if the ones I use on my monk are already mentionned, but here are some (apart from the obvious UMD heal scrolls, healing spring ED and silver flame pots):

    - Healing curse (light monk) and Ivy wraps: with both on I heal 4 to 12 HP every hit (need a really high healing amp). Note that Ivy wraps lower the DPS but increase the survivabilty, so it is kind of situational.
    - Wholeness of spirit: Heal + restoration all-in-one. Long cooldown so it is an emergency button
    - Wholeness of body: Slow recovery, but it fills you up, 3 min cooldown

  6. #46
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Seems pretty obvious to me: Don't dump int.

    I'm not overly fond of self-healing through umd; it feels weak and clunky to me. I've all but abandoned it on all my builds, though I still can do it as a backup due to getting 40+ UMD for other things.
    So how do you self hjealz?

    Without resorting to suicide pots and/or cocoon, because new players don't have access to them. (Or hires. Don't make the new people suffer through those things.)

    *edit* Also, maxing UMD requires 2 skill points per level. A 10 int fighter (8 int human) can do that.
    Last edited by Soulfurnace; 09-30-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  7. #47
    Community Member johnnyputrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    There's alot of good stuff in here, and I'll format and edit it and make a new post.

    Still some unanswered questions though...for example, how can an Int dump 2 rogue splash get full UMD?

    Aes.
    Taking a level in rogue (or bard, or artificer) allows you to put full ranks in UMD. Normally a character without those levels can only put 11 ranks into UMD. With a single rogue/bard/artificer level, you can put a full 23 ranks into UMD, though you will be spending two skill points per level in whatever non-rogue/bard/artificer class you take (rogues/bards/artificers can spend a single skill point per level in UMD).

    After the 23 ranks, it becomes a matter of stacking on bonuses that add to Charisma or all skills in general. A triple-air greensteel item for example, gives you a +6 exceptional bonus to all Charisma-based skills, including UMD. Skill Focus UMD adds another 3 points. A Persuasion item adds a +3 competence bonus to Charisma-based skills. Good Luck +2 will add +2 to all skills. Certain items such as the Epic Big Top will add an enhancement bonus to UMD. And then you have the Elite Spider Mask for a +1 profane bonus to all skills, Greater Heroism for a +4 morale bonus to all skills. Wearing a +6 Charisma item (or swapping one in for scroll use) gives you another +3. Once you start adding stackable skill-boosting effects, you can get enough UMD to throw Heal scrolls with no failure. The magic number is 39 for a no-fail Heal scroll. 39 because even if you roll a one, it is not a failure on that type of skill check, so 1 +39 = 40 = success.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyputrid View Post
    Taking a level in rogue (or bard, or artificer) allows you to put full ranks in UMD. Normally a character without those levels can only put 11 ranks into UMD. With a single rogue/bard/artificer level, you can put a full 23 ranks into UMD, though you will be spending two skill points per level in whatever non-rogue/bard/artificer class you take (rogues/bards/artificers can spend a single skill point per level in UMD).

    After the 23 ranks, it becomes a matter of stacking on bonuses that add to Charisma or all skills in general. A triple-air greensteel item for example, gives you a +6 exceptional bonus to all Charisma-based skills, including UMD. Skill Focus UMD adds another 3 points. A Persuasion item adds a +3 competence bonus to Charisma-based skills. Good Luck +2 will add +2 to all skills. Certain items such as the Epic Big Top will add an enhancement bonus to UMD. And then you have the Elite Spider Mask for a +1 profane bonus to all skills, Greater Heroism for a +4 morale bonus to all skills. Wearing a +6 Charisma item (or swapping one in for scroll use) gives you another +3. Once you start adding stackable skill-boosting effects, you can get enough UMD to throw Heal scrolls with no failure. The magic number is 39 for a no-fail Heal scroll. 39 because even if you roll a one, it is not a failure on that type of skill check, so 1 +39 = 40 = success.
    Nicely summarised. I'd give you a +1 for it if the system would let me and it actually meant anything, but either way, it was nicely done.

  9. #49
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post

    Other:

    Fighter - None. EDIT: Rogue 2 level splash will give both Evasion for survival and UMD for heal scrolls. Details to follow.
    Monk - Fists of Light finisher - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.
    Rogue - UMD for wands. No innate. EDIT: Also scrolls.
    Barbarian - None. EDIT: Again, rogue splash for scroll/wand healing, but have to drop Rage to use.
    It was mentioned before. Halflings are the key. Add 1 wizard level and take maximize+empower. You can skip THF line to free up some feats. At level 3 or 4, you can have heal, and a tonn of cures. Quicken isnt needed, since there is no concentration check if you get hit.
    As barbarian you might want to rage, but imo while leveling, its not important. Have PA, and cleaves and go nuts. Self healing and 2-3 cleaves = immortal walking bomb.

    Your dps will suffer a bit as halfling, but your saves will be quite good. Not a horrible tradeoff.
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  10. #50
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    Okay, but what sacrifices did you make in order to achieve that? What gear is involved? This thread is about new players. How many new players are going to have no fail Heal scrolls by level 13 without severely gimping their Barbarians?
    int base 14, cha base 14

    severely gimping barb? oh well, imho the gimped one is that who needs a babysitter to kill more than 2 kobols

    think rest of stats were 16 str (2 damage and 2 to hit loss omg!!) and 14 con (noooo in a d12 class!! why!?!?!?), that doesnt avoid having 40 str and 600 hp at lvl 18 w/o raging nor completionist, etc etc

    gear for no fail at 13? the +6 exceptional from conc opp, taking 1 rogue lvl at 1 and at 13 and having a +2 int tome (yes, im talking about a gimped barb that also has traps w/o chance of fail)

    yesterday was talking with a guy who said that ddo was sol unfriendly, and it is, for gimped pure non self sufficient toons, as it should be, if not would be hilarious lol

    so am i gonna "dump str and con" all the melee lives to self heal? ofc i will, as exchange i can solo most stuff (because i can trap and self heal, w/o depending in a hire nor other players)

    also, if u want only self heal(i.e. umd) prolly with 10 int would be enough, dunno, i took 14 because with my tomes that meant at lvl 13 i had to take another lvl so i can put all my skill points in search,dd and rest t oumd (w/o wasting a single point, that means i ended with 0 left after this 3 skills)

    btw, my melees are always half orc or human, maybe sometime ill get 1 dwarf or 1 helf, not sure, maybe, but since i get self healing from 1 side, can get dps from another side(and don't be gimp XD or at less less gimp that 1 toon that needs a baby sitter)
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  11. #51
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    int base 14, cha base 14

    severely gimping barb? oh well, imho the gimped one is that who needs a babysitter to kill more than 2 kobols

    think rest of stats were 16 str (2 damage and 2 to hit loss omg!!) and 14 con (noooo in a d12 class!! why!?!?!?), that doesnt avoid having 40 str and 600 hp at lvl 18 w/o raging nor completionist, etc etc

    gear for no fail at 13? the +6 exceptional from conc opp, taking 1 rogue lvl at 1 and at 13 and having a +2 int tome (yes, im talking about a gimped barb that also has traps w/o chance of fail)

    yesterday was talking with a guy who said that ddo was sol unfriendly, and it is, for gimped pure non self sufficient toons, as it should be, if not would be hilarious lol

    so am i gonna "dump str and con" all the melee lives to self heal? ofc i will, as exchange i can solo most stuff (because i can trap and self heal, w/o depending in a hire nor other players)

    also, if u want only self heal(i.e. umd) prolly with 10 int would be enough, dunno, i took 14 because with my tomes that meant at lvl 13 i had to take another lvl so i can put all my skill points in search,dd and rest t oumd (w/o wasting a single point, that means i ended with 0 left after this 3 skills)

    btw, my melees are always half orc or human, maybe sometime ill get 1 dwarf or 1 helf, not sure, maybe, but since i get self healing from 1 side, can get dps from another side(and don't be gimp XD or at less less gimp that 1 toon that needs a baby sitter)
    for a 28 point build, you couldn't possibly have had those stats. more like 14 str and 12 con. your post holds no bearing for the purpose of this thread.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Barbarian - None. EDIT: Again, rogue splash for scroll/wand healing, but have to drop Rage to use.
    Half elf dil. Potions. Vampiric/bodyfeeder weapons.

  13. #53
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    for a 28 point build, you couldn't possibly have had those stats. more like 14 str and 12 con. your post holds no bearing for the purpose of this thread.
    1st life doesn't mean 28 points, also doesn't mean no gear, 6 exceptional bonus is ONE of the sources, there are far more and bta to hit the 6 to cha skills

    if 14 str and 12 con is what u get with 28 points and getting int and cha, won't be much higher w/o getting em, what for the purpose of the post(or common knowledge in the game) means being gimp because needs a baby sitter
    Last edited by psykopeta; 09-30-2013 at 11:48 AM.
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  14. #54
    2016 DDO Players Council Qhualor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    1st life doesn't mean 28 points, also doesn't mean no gear, 6 exceptional bonus is ONE of the sources, there are far more and bta to hit the 6 to cha skills

    if 14 str and 12 con is what u get with 28 points and getting int and cha, won't be much higher w/o getting em, what for the purpose of the post(or common knowledge in the game) means being gimp because needs a baby sitter
    nobody needs a babysitter if you play with your head. your post included GS which a first lifer is not going to have at level 13. i say again, your posts hold no bearing in this thread.

  15. #55
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    gear for no fail at 13? the +6 exceptional from conc opp, taking 1 rogue lvl at 1 and at 13 and having a +2 int tome (yes, im talking about a gimped barb that also has traps w/o chance of fail)
    Concordant Opposition requires green steel. Which in turn requires access to the Shroud and the necessary materials. How many first life level 13 characters do you know who run the Shroud? No fail heal scrolls at level 13 is not all that impressive for a veteran. Even less impressive for a character that has already made it to cap and obtained the twink gear necessary to do so. Your example is simply not valid to this thread.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Hi expert forumites!


    The UMD for wands is not a solution in my book. So sensible suggested splashes are welcome for these classes. It might someday help a newbie (like me) construct a character which doesn't need to have a pocket healer.

    Aes.
    UMD wands sure is not a solution. if your splashing for UMD you want to be using Heal Scrolls.

    this is a viable solution on a TR.

    I can get 100% heal scroll chance by lvl 11 on my TR lives now but, it takes collecting a good bit of gear which you'll have plenty of time for doing when your TRing.

  17. #57
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    for a 28 point build, you couldn't possibly have had those stats. more like 14 str and 12 con. your post holds no bearing for the purpose of this thread.
    the OP did ask about self healing in context of TR

  18. #58
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    For levels up to 12 or even 20 for that matter I think often self healing should be somewhat of a secondary concern to damage mitigation on a first life and to be honest most lives. You can make an invulnerability of life shield at lvl 7 on a first life (you can buy or just ask nicely for the shards if you don't have the crafting levels) and lvl 5 on subsequent lives. The amount of extra survivability that adds is incredible and on a first life if you run hards instead of elites you hardly have to heal at all.

    The other type of damage mitigation comes from smart play. Pick your battles and pick your battlefields. Running into a group of mobs might mean quick death where staying in a doorway might mean you hardly get scratched. Pulling one at a time instead of full groups is often the difference between life and death. Sure there are places where this is not an option (oob for example) but then it might be that, oh the horror, you want to group up for that given quest.

    I still remember being fascinated by how a friend was able to play a first life barb very effectively without much gear by being very smart about it. We tend to lose a lot of the tactics due to power creep and lots of trs (myself included) running quest completely overgeared and going all for completions. This often gives newer players somewhat of a skewed perception of how the game should be/is played. There used to be a great thread around about why veterans and newbies sometimes don't get along. It explained the difference between having 300+ csw pots, 100 stacks of lesser resto,poison,curse,blindness and disease pots, resist pots and perfect gear and quest knowledge compared to the newbie that has 5-10 csw pots and that's it. A lot of this has changed as better is available earlier and more gold is in circulation making it easier for newbies to have stacks of pots aswell but the gear and quest knowledge is still usually the deciding factor especially at the lower levels.

    Anyhow self healing is all well and good but if we are talking pre 20 or pre 12 survival IMO damage mitigation through smart play and appropriate gear is the key.
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  19. #59
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    I just did a quick test for barbarians, and the results were interesting. Rage seems to affect powers that channel divinity on some not-immediately-obvious basis: you can apply Divine Healing while raged, but you can't use a Positive Energy Burst.

    Is it worth going 2 Cleric on a Barbarian for some Divine Healing and UMD-free wand waving? I'd say not, but you be the judge.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    I just did a quick test for barbarians, and the results were interesting. Rage seems to affect powers that channel divinity on some not-immediately-obvious basis: you can apply Divine Healing while raged, but you can't use a Positive Energy Burst.

    Is it worth going 2 Cleric on a Barbarian for some Divine Healing and UMD-free wand waving? I'd say not, but you be the judge.
    DH and other Channel skills work more like Action Boosts than spells...no spellpower, cant crit, limited uses per rest, no spell point cost, etc. Burst is more like an SLA for similar reasons, so it makes sense that Rage doesn't block DH but does block Burst.

    That being said, DH is based on your Heal skill, which is cross-class for Barbs, so it'd be tough to keep your Heal skill up high enough for DH to be a meaningful HOT. About as tough as keeping your UMD up for wand heals, so sideways move at best.

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