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  1. #1
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    Default Self healing and your class....please help me fill this in.

    Hi expert forumites!

    I've been kinda trying to plan out my TR roadmap, and what I keep running into is self-healing. I just cannot BEAR to play a toon without at least something. So with that in mind, I've been trying to compile a list of healing options for all classes, and possible suggestions to mitigate the lack thereof in certain mixes. I'm not an uber-experienced player, so any and all advice and (constructive) input is welcome. Please do not include Epic Destiny feats or twists as this is intended for players who may not be TRing and who may be on their first life.

    Arcanes:

    Wizard - Repair spells if Warforged. Negative energy self-healing if a fleshy Pale Master
    Sorcerer - Repair spells if Warforged
    Artificer - Repair if Warforged, Contruct Essence gives repair spells to fleshies with significant penalty
    Bard - Has healing spells

    Divines:

    Cleric - Self-healing spells
    Favored Soul - Self-healing spells
    Druid - Heal over time spells
    Ranger - Self-healing spells, but at a greatly reduced level to other divines
    Paladin - Lay on Hands - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.

    Other:

    Fighter - None. EDIT: Rogue 2 level splash will give both Evasion for survival and UMD for heal scrolls. Details to follow.
    Monk - Fists of Light finisher - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.
    Rogue - UMD for wands. No innate. EDIT: Also scrolls.
    Barbarian - None. EDIT: Again, rogue splash for scroll/wand healing, but have to drop Rage to use.

    The UMD for wands is not a solution in my book. So sensible suggested splashes are welcome for these classes. It might someday help a newbie (like me) construct a character which doesn't need to have a pocket healer.

    Anyone want to fill in any blanks or advice? I'll edit as replies are added.

    Aes.
    Last edited by Istaria1; 09-27-2013 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post

    Wizard - Repair spells if Warforged. Negative energy self-healing if a fleshy Pale Master

    Bard - Has healing spells

    Cleric - Self-healing spells
    Favored Soul - Self-healing spells
    Druid - Heal over time spells

    Artificer - Repair if Warforged, Contruct Essence gives repair spells to fleshies with significant penalty

    Paladin - Lay on Hands - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.


    The UMD for wands is not a solution in my book. So sensible suggested splashes are welcome for these classes. It might someday help a newbie (like me) construct a character which doesn't need to have a pocket healer.
    Wizard pale masters can heal by negative energy whether or not they are fleshy pale masters or robot pale masters.

    Bards also have a heal over time song

    Clerics get many enhancements that are healing abilities like aura and burst, so more than just spells.

    Both cleric and Favored soul get warpriest with a smite that can be made to do an aoe healing effect.

    Favored souls can get a capstone with a free cure sla with no sp cost

    Druids also have the cure spells and the heal spell. In addition they get springs resurgence a very very nice reactive heal in the seasons herald enhancements.

    Artificers have the Curative admixture spells that can heal non cyborgs

    Paladins also have cure spells.

    Umd for wands is only for lowbies. UMD is really for Heal scrolls, Raise scrolls, and buff scrolls.

    ANY class can get epic destiny abilities that give them healing potential.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 09-27-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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  3. #3
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    OK, some good input so far, and I agree with Unbongwah that Silver Flame pots are not for new players.

    Wrt to monk healing, from my other posts some forum posters can probably see that I am having difficulties with this as a new monk player. The CD on Light Ki-strike is quite long, and the finisher requires Ki to activate. The payback seems quite small. Maybe I am too low level to appreciate how effective it can be?

    A discussion about Healing Amplification could be in order.

    So far there has been no better solution for Barbs and Fighters than Rogue splash for UMD. But in my experience (as a newb, sorry to keep belaboring that), UMD is only useful ALOT later in the game, i.e. post 12 or so. A tip I always appreciated from an old experienced hand was that a splash of any divine class would let you use certain heal wands at low levels without the UMD reqs. Not always practical but...might be worth suggesting on some classes.

    Again, e.g.:

    Fighter class, splash 6 ranger, get TWF and ITWF for free as well as the ability to use Divine wands (i.e. heal) as a Divine caster.

    Thanks for all the input so far, this could be a really useful thread.

    Aes.

  4. #4
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    OK, some good input so far, and I agree with Unbongwah that Silver Flame pots are not for new players.

    Wrt to monk healing, from my other posts some forum posters can probably see that I am having difficulties with this as a new monk player. The CD on Light Ki-strike is quite long, and the finisher requires Ki to activate. The payback seems quite small. Maybe I am too low level to appreciate how effective it can be?

    A discussion about Healing Amplification could be in order.

    So far there has been no better solution for Barbs and Fighters than Rogue splash for UMD. But in my experience (as a newb, sorry to keep belaboring that), UMD is only useful ALOT later in the game, i.e. post 12 or so. A tip I always appreciated from an old experienced hand was that a splash of any divine class would let you use certain heal wands at low levels without the UMD reqs. Not always practical but...might be worth suggesting on some classes.

    Again, e.g.:

    Fighter class, splash 6 ranger, get TWF and ITWF for free as well as the ability to use Divine wands (i.e. heal) as a Divine caster.

    Thanks for all the input so far, this could be a really useful thread.

    Aes.
    pre-12 you really don't need much more than cure serious potions on any build, even when playing a divine it's all I tend to use at those levels.

  5. #5

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    Paladins get better self-healing out of their cure spells (same as rangers) than LoH because LoH is limited to 4 uses per rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    So far there has been no better solution for Barbs and Fighters than Rogue splash for UMD.
    Well, my fighter (rolled up months ago) solved the problem by going with a 12/8 fighter/cleric build. Works pretty well, and recently got a buff with the introduction of the warpriest tree.

  6. #6
    Community Member johnnyputrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Wrt to monk healing, from my other posts some forum posters can probably see that I am having difficulties with this as a new monk player. The CD on Light Ki-strike is quite long, and the finisher requires Ki to activate. The payback seems quite small. Maybe I am too low level to appreciate how effective it can be?

    A discussion about Healing Amplification could be in order.
    The breakdown on light monk self-healing:

    Fists of Light - once activated, it applies a 'healing shield' to the enemy which lasts for approximately 10 seconds and heals you and any allies within a small radius for 1-2 hit points per strike. This is NOT affected by anything except your personal healing amplification. Monk 3 or Monk 20, it heals 1-2 hit points, sans healing amp. The cooldown for Fists of Light is only 3 seconds, meaning you can spam it to your heart's content, as long as you are generating ki. Fists of Light doesn't scale with your level, but does greatly benefit from your healing amplification.

    Once you hit 150% healing amp, FoL will now heal you for 1-3 hit points per strike. At 200% amplification, this increases again to 2-4 hit points per strike. 250% is 2-5 hps, 300% is 3-6, etc, etc. The more healing amp you have, the better your FoL performs.

    Healing Ki finisher - after 3 successful strikes of Fists of Light, the finishing move activates, allowing you to 'cast' the ability. It heals for 1d4 hps, plus 1d4 per 2 monk levels. Though it is NOT a healing spell, it does mimic the effects of a Mass Cure Light Wounds in many ways.
    It is affected by Positive Spellpower.
    It is affected by Healing Lore, and can produce a spell crit.
    It is affected by your healing amplification.
    It is NOT affected by any metamagic feats, such as Empower Healing Spell. You can't have an Empowered, Maximized, Quickened Healing Ki finisher since it only mimics the spell.
    The burst from Healing Ki does NOT damage undead monsters.

    Prior to the enhancement pass, the Healing Ki finisher was triggered by any light monk strike (Tomb of Jade, etc), but now it only seems to work with the actual FoL strike.

    While it might not seem like much, it is a rather powerful ability. At low levels, providing you can generate enough ki, you have an on-demand Vampirism effect and a small mass cure which can be used in combat simply for doing what you would be doing anyway, punching something. At higher levels with significant healing amplification, you can keep yourself topped off on a near-continuous basis, and fix larger amounts of spike damage with your finisher.

    Hope that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyputrid View Post
    The breakdown on light monk self-healing:

    Fists of Light - once activated, it applies a 'healing shield' to the enemy which lasts for approximately 10 seconds and heals you and any allies within a small radius for 1-2 hit points per strike. This is NOT affected by anything except your personal healing amplification. Monk 3 or Monk 20, it heals 1-2 hit points, sans healing amp. The cooldown for Fists of Light is only 3 seconds, meaning you can spam it to your heart's content, as long as you are generating ki. Fists of Light doesn't scale with your level, but does greatly benefit from your healing amplification.

    Once you hit 150% healing amp, FoL will now heal you for 1-3 hit points per strike. At 200% amplification, this increases again to 2-4 hit points per strike. 250% is 2-5 hps, 300% is 3-6, etc, etc. The more healing amp you have, the better your FoL performs.

    Healing Ki finisher - after 3 successful strikes of Fists of Light, the finishing move activates, allowing you to 'cast' the ability. It heals for 1d4 hps, plus 1d4 per 2 monk levels. Though it is NOT a healing spell, it does mimic the effects of a Mass Cure Light Wounds in many ways.
    It is affected by Positive Spellpower.
    It is affected by Healing Lore, and can produce a spell crit.
    It is affected by your healing amplification.
    It is NOT affected by any metamagic feats, such as Empower Healing Spell. You can't have an Empowered, Maximized, Quickened Healing Ki finisher since it only mimics the spell.
    The burst from Healing Ki does NOT damage undead monsters.

    Prior to the enhancement pass, the Healing Ki finisher was triggered by any light monk strike (Tomb of Jade, etc), but now it only seems to work with the actual FoL strike.

    While it might not seem like much, it is a rather powerful ability. At low levels, providing you can generate enough ki, you have an on-demand Vampirism effect and a small mass cure which can be used in combat simply for doing what you would be doing anyway, punching something. At higher levels with significant healing amplification, you can keep yourself topped off on a near-continuous basis, and fix larger amounts of spike damage with your finisher.

    Hope that helps.
    More than helped. Exactly what the doctor ordered. Will put this into the edited OP.

    Thanks

    Aes.

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Cleric - Self-healing spells
    Favored Soul - Self-healing spells
    Clerics can also pick up auras & bursts from Radiant Servant, which uses your Turn Undeads rather than SPs to provide AoE heals. And Warpriest PrE has an ability called Ameliorating Strike: "When your Smite Foe strikes a Critical Hit, you and your nearby allies are healed by 1d4 per character level, and benefit from the effects of a Lesser Restoration spell." I'm not sure if it works with any weapon, or only your deity weapon.
    Druid - Heal over time spells
    Druids also get all of the single-target Cure spells (but not the Mass ones); as well as Heal as a lvl 8 spell. They can also pick up Spring's Resurgence from Season's Herald PrE: "Fill an ally with the vitality of spring. When that ally falls below 50% hit points, that ally and any other allies near him are healed by 20d6 positive energy, and receive a +2 primal bonus to attack rolls."
    Paladin - Lay on Hands - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.
    LoH is pretty simple: it provides "(10 + Paladin level) x Charisma modifier" HPs of healing per use. Paladins start out with 1 use of LoH per rest; they can gain 3 more from Sacred Defender PrE; and you can pick up Endless LoH from Unyielding Sentinel, which causes them to regen over time. Basically, LoH is your "oh $#!t" emergency button.

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    While I know you are not looking for Epic Feats and Twists, there are the following that can also be helpful.

    1. Halfling - Healing Dragon Mark Feat - Racial Enhancements - Will work for any class as long as the Race is Halfling and you take the Dragonmark Feat
    2. Half-Elf - Dilettante Feat of Cleric/FvS requires either a 13 Wisdom (cleric) or 13 Charisma (fvs) works will with builds that don't have UMD as an option but does need spending in the Racial Tree for APs
    3. Past Life Cleric Active Feat - 5 Healing Word casts per rest. These do become more powerful as you level but may also need investment with Maximize/Empower/Empower Healing to get big healing ( 1d4 hit points plus an additional 1d4 per two caster levels) - This is not available until Level 3, so levels 1-2 will still need other options.

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    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Halfling - Healing Dragon Mark Feat - Racial Enhancements - Will work for any class as long as the Race is Halfling and you take the Dragonmark Feat
    FYI - With the new enhancement system, you can get Heal around 6th level (or even earlier?) using halfling dragonmarks. Pretty sweet.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 10-14-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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    Dragonmarked halfling!!!
    NESALOMLJIVI, Thelanis

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    One option I don't think has been mentioned is a cheat life...a 6/6/8 splash where the 6/6 does all the work and the /8 can be whatever you want the PL credit for. Something like a WF 6 Arti/6 Rgr repeater build will have a nice offensive toolbox, plus Cure Serious as a bluebar spell. Might help with lives like Barb where its just too onerous. Or a 6 Rgr/6 Monk monkcher, for anything but Barb/Barb.

    The melee version might be 2 Rogue/8 Cleric/10 XXX, where you get Evasion, some offensive attacks, and Cure Critical among other good Cleric spells - especially if your XXX class granted you some Martial proficiencies, or you wanted to go with an Exotic weapon anyway.

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    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post

    Other:

    Fighter - None. EDIT: Rogue 2 level splash will give both Evasion for survival and UMD for heal scrolls. Details to follow.
    Monk - Fists of Light finisher - an explanation of the limits of this would be appreciated.
    Rogue - UMD for wands. No innate. EDIT: Also scrolls.
    Barbarian - None. EDIT: Again, rogue splash for scroll/wand healing, but have to drop Rage to use.
    It was mentioned before. Halflings are the key. Add 1 wizard level and take maximize+empower. You can skip THF line to free up some feats. At level 3 or 4, you can have heal, and a tonn of cures. Quicken isnt needed, since there is no concentration check if you get hit.
    As barbarian you might want to rage, but imo while leveling, its not important. Have PA, and cleaves and go nuts. Self healing and 2-3 cleaves = immortal walking bomb.

    Your dps will suffer a bit as halfling, but your saves will be quite good. Not a horrible tradeoff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Barbarian - None. EDIT: Again, rogue splash for scroll/wand healing, but have to drop Rage to use.
    Half elf dil. Potions. Vampiric/bodyfeeder weapons.

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    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Istaria1 View Post
    Hi expert forumites!


    The UMD for wands is not a solution in my book. So sensible suggested splashes are welcome for these classes. It might someday help a newbie (like me) construct a character which doesn't need to have a pocket healer.

    Aes.
    UMD wands sure is not a solution. if your splashing for UMD you want to be using Heal Scrolls.

    this is a viable solution on a TR.

    I can get 100% heal scroll chance by lvl 11 on my TR lives now but, it takes collecting a good bit of gear which you'll have plenty of time for doing when your TRing.

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    For levels up to 12 or even 20 for that matter I think often self healing should be somewhat of a secondary concern to damage mitigation on a first life and to be honest most lives. You can make an invulnerability of life shield at lvl 7 on a first life (you can buy or just ask nicely for the shards if you don't have the crafting levels) and lvl 5 on subsequent lives. The amount of extra survivability that adds is incredible and on a first life if you run hards instead of elites you hardly have to heal at all.

    The other type of damage mitigation comes from smart play. Pick your battles and pick your battlefields. Running into a group of mobs might mean quick death where staying in a doorway might mean you hardly get scratched. Pulling one at a time instead of full groups is often the difference between life and death. Sure there are places where this is not an option (oob for example) but then it might be that, oh the horror, you want to group up for that given quest.

    I still remember being fascinated by how a friend was able to play a first life barb very effectively without much gear by being very smart about it. We tend to lose a lot of the tactics due to power creep and lots of trs (myself included) running quest completely overgeared and going all for completions. This often gives newer players somewhat of a skewed perception of how the game should be/is played. There used to be a great thread around about why veterans and newbies sometimes don't get along. It explained the difference between having 300+ csw pots, 100 stacks of lesser resto,poison,curse,blindness and disease pots, resist pots and perfect gear and quest knowledge compared to the newbie that has 5-10 csw pots and that's it. A lot of this has changed as better is available earlier and more gold is in circulation making it easier for newbies to have stacks of pots aswell but the gear and quest knowledge is still usually the deciding factor especially at the lower levels.

    Anyhow self healing is all well and good but if we are talking pre 20 or pre 12 survival IMO damage mitigation through smart play and appropriate gear is the key.
    Just my 2 copper,
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    I just did a quick test for barbarians, and the results were interesting. Rage seems to affect powers that channel divinity on some not-immediately-obvious basis: you can apply Divine Healing while raged, but you can't use a Positive Energy Burst.

    Is it worth going 2 Cleric on a Barbarian for some Divine Healing and UMD-free wand waving? I'd say not, but you be the judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    I just did a quick test for barbarians, and the results were interesting. Rage seems to affect powers that channel divinity on some not-immediately-obvious basis: you can apply Divine Healing while raged, but you can't use a Positive Energy Burst.

    Is it worth going 2 Cleric on a Barbarian for some Divine Healing and UMD-free wand waving? I'd say not, but you be the judge.
    DH and other Channel skills work more like Action Boosts than spells...no spellpower, cant crit, limited uses per rest, no spell point cost, etc. Burst is more like an SLA for similar reasons, so it makes sense that Rage doesn't block DH but does block Burst.

    That being said, DH is based on your Heal skill, which is cross-class for Barbs, so it'd be tough to keep your Heal skill up high enough for DH to be a meaningful HOT. About as tough as keeping your UMD up for wand heals, so sideways move at best.

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    Keeping your Heal skill up for a Barbarian with a Cleric splash is simplicity itself, as Barbarians get four base skill points per level and taking Cleric lets you train Heal as high as any class skill, even if you have to pay double for it. So, while I still don't care for the notion, that's not really much of a downside (and certainly not compared to UMDing wands, as the cleric levels let you use all cure wands without failure anyways. It's the inability to UMD scrolls that's the loss.)

  20. #20
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    Is it worth going 2 Cleric on a Barbarian for some Divine Healing and UMD-free wand waving? I'd say not, but you be the judge.
    If looking for UMD-free wand waving, I would (and did on my first barb) splash 1 level of ranger.

    Favored enemy, some enhancements, Bow Strength, and the ability to use ranger wands.

    The trick with barbs is to avoid damage.... not just charge in like... well, a barbarian...
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