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  1. #81
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Grinding gear gets in the way of playing for some and the pocket cleric is likely the one who needs the rez in the first place.
    .
    1st it is not a fighter/barbarian's job to heal nor res people, if you felt the urge to do these you should. 1) get umd 2) player cleric/fvs/bard 3)splash other class for hybird all around build

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    That lack of imagination shows as you can't think of anything to use it for outside of healing or raising. Your play style and the amount of munchkining the game allows is what makes bothering with wands/scrolls a waste of time for you.
    imagination? yea that is the issue here. most of the buff in game can be found as clicky. haste, blur, great heroism, heroism, divine power. these all can be find as clickie, you do not need to sacrifice over 1/5 of your total ap to acquire.

    umd is a very powerful skill, because and only because it allow you to use all scroll/wand, not just spell/wand from one typical spell branch.

    p.s. i do have scroll/wand toon.. but thats all achieve through umd, i rather spend the time to 100% umd heal scroll. while also be able to pop displacement on myself. i will never bother with helf dil, because they are inferior. they are really no difference from splashing bard/rogue/arty for umd. infact if you splash several level you will actually become stronger then helf pure build with dil.

  2. #82
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    1st it is not a fighter/barbarian's job to heal nor res people, if you felt the urge to do these you should. 1) get umd 2) player cleric/fvs/bard 3)splash other class for hybird all around build
    .
    Everyone should work on a way to raise for when the fecal matter hits the fan. This can be umd, clicky, innate casting ability, it doesn't really matter but having it means you can recover the group if things go badly.

  3. #83
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    No, that does not make it a good choice. A good choice would be one that allows people to do what they want, simply and without 'jumping through hoops', at a reasonable cost balanced against other choices. What Half Elf allows is a simple method to gain something, be it using Divine Scrolls, u sing Arcane Scrolls, Sneak Attack dice, a bit of STR to bows, or WIS to AC, or CHA to Saves, or other things, but it does so at a ridiculously steep cost. As you have pointed out even the people who Half Elf is still attractive for are not making this choice based on the value of it, but based on the simplicity. If they are going to make a simple choice, why shouldn't that choice also be one that is well balanced against others?

    No one is calling for an end to Half Elves, or to ostracize those who choose to play them. Just a review of the Racial tree, now that other trees have been polished up some, and to have the costs brought down to be reasonable compared to other choices or else have the benefits increased. Because of the way that the Dilettante feats are tiered, Half Elf does not really get any advantages based solely on the racial pick, but instead needs AP spent in the Racial Tree in order to not be outclassed by either Human or one of the other races. The only base Dilettante feat that could really be argued to have as much value as a feat of choice would be Rogue, and even then it is extremely hard to find an actual build where the 1d6 SA (if you want to spend AP for more then Halfling would end up being a better choice) that does not stack with Rogue class is better than a feat of choice.
    this use to be true, but no longer true.

    sneak die can be gain through other racial enhancement. helf is not the only race for that. for example, shadar ki(or whatever they are called), and hafling

    save is always nice to have, but halfling offer same save, without any requirement on charisma. and their cost is way cheaper and easy to acquire.

    lesser bow strength? first to use bow and deal decent damage you will need various of feat, say rapid shot, manyshot..etc if you don't have any your bow damage can be ignored toward end game. while on the other side you do have way superior choice, brutal strength for throwing weapon.. or elven dex to bow damage from elven enhancement. (not to mentioned that only 8 of damage are caped, for currently level 28 level this can be totally ignored, you could get 8 damage purely from one piece of equipment and it doesn't cost you 1/5 of your ap)

    wisdom to ac is always nice.. but hey to use this you must be defensive centered.. and that means no shield, no armor. you might a really high wisdom score but am sorry the helf dil cap your max wis to ac. so in the end you will be losing ac, even you only wear light armor without a meaningful dex score.


    as for wand/scroll ability, it extremely limited your choice of wand/scroll, and you will never 100% umd most of the important stuff..

    p.s. sure it is simple, if you don't mind to be gimp. it really confuse me when people claim they need healing,res ability without umd, but at the same time unwilling to play druid/fvs/cleric..




    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Everyone should work on a way to raise for when the fecal matter hits the fan. This can be umd, clicky, innate casting ability, it doesn't really matter but having it means you can recover the group if things go badly.
    partly true, but even it is required. you could always get a pocket cleric/fvs to do it. and if you always play with full team you should grind the res ring, or green steel.

    when you take the dil you are sacrifice your healing/dps/tanking ability, if you don't choose helf your party may not wipe at the first place. if you don't want to be a pure in your role then play a hybird build, if not stay pure and do your job well.

    p.s. taking helf dil hurt you more then splash two level of other classes. those scroll fail make it totally not viable for most of the time. so all you can really do is run away then run back to res after losing the agro..
    Last edited by burningwind; 10-03-2013 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #84
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post

    partly true, but even it is required. you could always get a pocket cleric/fvs to do it. and if you always play with full team you should grind the res ring, or green steel.

    when you take the dil you are sacrifice your healing/dps/tanking ability, if you don't choose helf your party may not wipe at the first place. if you don't want to be a pure in your role then play a hybird build, if not stay pure and do your job well.

    p.s. taking helf dil hurt you more then splash two level of other classes. those scroll fail make it totally not viable for most of the time. so all you can really do is run away then run back to res after losing the agro..
    First I'm against helves after the ep, before the ep it was debatable. I'm for umd and clickies. I'm also against the -5% xp that is a hireling. Their ai is worse than a six int barbarian tweaking on meth, it's extra scaling for something that will only hurt you. Second with the hires you can't use one in a raid.

    I agree helf is the absolute worst option but saying you don't need to be able to raise or heal is wrong in this stage of ddo. Everything is byoh with good reason, if you can't take care of yourself at this stage in the game you are a gimp.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    "No reason" is a bit too far. T2 caster dilly still let you use scrolls as a level 6 caster (75% on Heal/GH scrolls). It is one of the three races that have sneak damage on their racial tree (other two are halfling and shadar-kai). Still gives access to Arcane Archer without a constitution penalty. And some dilettantes are useful by themselves over the human feat (Fighter, rogue and artificer).

    They got a hard hit by the enhancement pass, but they are not at the useless tier yet, unlike WF.
    So they scroll worse than anyone using UMD, they get a couple points of sneak attack damage added on to those 1000+ crits, and speaking of which their crits are noticeably worse than elves. No, helf tree sucks, not as bad as halfling, but it's bad.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    1st it is not a fighter/barbarian's job to heal nor res people, if you felt the urge to do these you should. 1) get umd 2) player cleric/fvs/bard 3)splash other class for hybird all around build
    A helf would be in the same catagory as those, just at a lesser level.



    imagination? yea that is the issue here. most of the buff in game can be found as clicky. haste, blur, great heroism, heroism, divine power. these all can be find as clickie, you do not need to sacrifice over 1/5 of your total ap to acquire.
    As opposed to spending them where? I have yet to find a character that couldn't get away with spending 1/4th in a racial tree and not end up worse off. Beyond the half or so that go into one's main PRE tree, it's generally just splitting hairs as to the value of where the rest are best spent on most general purpose builds. Now on a build that's predicated to squeezing out every AP to maintain it's viability, that may not be the case. But I've a feeling that the vast majority of players don't play them.

    umd is a very powerful skill, because and only because it allow you to use all scroll/wand, not just spell/wand from one typical spell branch.

    p.s. i do have scroll/wand toon.. but thats all achieve through umd, i rather spend the time to 100% umd heal scroll. while also be able to pop displacement on myself. i will never bother with helf dil, because they are inferior. they are really no difference from splashing bard/rogue/arty for umd. infact if you splash several level you will actually become stronger then helf pure build with dil.
    I have no doubt that's true. The problem is that one needs the inclination to spread sheet builds and often grind gear to make it work. Not something your typical player, as opposed to hobbyist gamer, is likely to find worth much of the time and trouble to use.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Everyone should work on a way to raise for when the fecal matter hits the fan. This can be umd, clicky, innate casting ability, it doesn't really matter but having it means you can recover the group if things go badly.
    It's nice to have, but many just see re-entry or just calling it a wipe to be less than catastrophic.

  8. #88
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I have no doubt that's true. The problem is that one needs the inclination to spread sheet builds and often grind gear to make it work. Not something your typical player, as opposed to hobbyist gamer, is likely to find worth much of the time and trouble to use.
    I call bs

    UMD is not a spreadsheet min max thing. plan to be able to put 1 skill point into umd some combos that may mean 2 more int. Put your cha up to 10-12 if you can and get the best tomes you can. Equip a cha item. Equip a gs cha skills item if you aren't a class that has native umd. If you have a little lower cha, not as good of tomes, etc you'll just have a 90-95% success rate which is ..... the same as a helf except with no gimping yourself with the helf tree.

    Nothing in that is hard.

    Nothing in that requires a spreadsheet.

    Nothing in that is extremely min maxed, gear swapping, or gear intensive.

  9. #89
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    It's nice to have, but many just see re-entry or just calling it a wipe to be less than catastrophic.
    Why wipe and fail when an absolutely tiny amount of effort will turn it into a win?

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    and if you always play with full team you should grind the res ring, or green steel.
    Because? Wouldn't playing a race less optimal in other ways also be a fair price to pay for that ability? That seems to be where the disconnect is happening here. I see nothing wrong with helfs as they allow players to trade optimization elsewhere for some added utility without having to jump trough a bunch of hoops or waste time grinding specific content. It seems a fair trade off to me, but I guess some just can't wrap their minds around the concept of trading away any optimization that need not be. Maybe if I explain it as optimizing the entertainment value of play time, it might make sense.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Why wipe and fail when an absolutely tiny amount of effort will turn it into a win?
    Anything beyond putting skill points into UMD to make it functional takes it out of the tiny amount category. 11ish UMD at 20 does very little. Personalty I might try to pull it off, but wouldn't be overly concerned if I couldn't. The game just doesn't punish "losing" enough to lose sleep over it and likely wouldn't be able to maintain a viable player base if it did..

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I call bs

    UMD is not a spreadsheet min max thing. plan to be able to put 1 skill point into umd some combos that may mean 2 more int. Put your cha up to 10-12 if you can and get the best tomes you can. Equip a cha item. Equip a gs cha skills item if you aren't a class that has native umd. If you have a little lower cha, not as good of tomes, etc you'll just have a 90-95% success rate which is ..... the same as a helf except with no gimping yourself with the helf tree.

    Nothing in that is hard.

    Nothing in that requires a spreadsheet.

    Nothing in that is extremely min maxed, gear swapping, or gear intensive.
    Or choose helf and not worry about cha if it isn't otherwise a real useful stat on one's first (and likely only) life build and not worry about having to grind out a raid for a t3 gs item and not worry about having to use that rare tome on a character that doesn't otherwise gain advantage from it. One actually has to have the desire to run the math to even get to that point.

    You are so far away, you don't even see what I'm talking about. Just because helf isn't a great min/max choice, doesn't mean it is not a great choice otherwise.

    Let's put it this way. I'm in a guild of about 100 players. I have the only greensteel in the guild. Only about 5 of us have TRs, only a couple others have played to epic levels. It looks like of that subset of the game only 1% would be able to do what you say less than 10% would even be in a position to do so. Most in my guild would ask why they should waste points on UMD if they likely wouldn't even be able to use it until if and when they are able to not only run Shroud, but run many. What's the worth of a skill that can't even be used most of the effective game life of any particular character.

  13. #93
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Because? Wouldn't playing a race less optimal in other ways also be a fair price to pay for that ability?
    no
    That seems to be where the disconnect is happening here. I see nothing wrong with helfs as they allow players to trade optimization elsewhere for some added utility without having to jump trough a bunch of hoops or waste time grinding specific content. It seems a fair trade off to me,
    It's not a fair trade, it's an extremely poor trade that makes you very worse off
    but I guess some just can't wrap their minds around the concept of trading away any optimization that need not be. Maybe if I explain it as optimizing the entertainment value of play time, it might make sense.
    Whats not fun about running content to get basic gear? Do you not enjoy playing this game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Anything beyond putting skill points into UMD to make it functional takes it out of the tiny amount category. 11ish UMD at 20 does very little. Personalty I might try to pull it off, but wouldn't be overly concerned if I couldn't. The game just doesn't punish "losing" enough to lose sleep over it and likely wouldn't be able to maintain a viable player base if it did..
    BS

    First of all the cap isn't 20 anymore as much as some of us wish u14 didn't happen. Second basic gear is a tiny amount of effort or are you the guy that gets kicked out of groups because he's only wearing korthos sets at cap?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Or choose helf and not worry about cha if it isn't otherwise a real useful stat on one's first (and likely only) life build and not worry about having to grind out a raid for a t3 gs item and not worry about having to use that rare tome on a character that doesn't otherwise gain advantage from it. One actually has to have the desire to run the math to even get to that point.
    Worry about building t3 gs? I guess you don't like this game. Shroud and raiding is fun, having fun gets you the gear, not really seeing that you have any form of a point.
    You are so far away, you don't even see what I'm talking about. Just because helf isn't a great min/max choice, doesn't mean it is not a great choice otherwise.
    no it's still a poor choice you're just too lazy to care that it is. Laziness isn't a good thing in absolutely anything a human being can do.
    Let's put it this way. I'm in a guild of about 100 players. I have the only greensteel in the guild. Only about 5 of us have TRs, only a couple others have played to epic levels. It looks like of that subset of the game only 1% would be able to do what you say less than 10% would even be in a position to do so. Most in my guild would ask why they should waste points on UMD if they likely wouldn't even be able to use it until if and when they are able to not only run Shroud, but run many. What's the worth of a skill that can't even be used most of the effective game life of any particular character.
    Sounds like they are all poor players or extremely new players. If new they'll get there soon, if poor, I really don't care about them.

  14. #94
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    First I'm against helves after the ep, before the ep it was debatable. I'm for umd and clickies. I'm also against the -5% xp that is a hireling. Their ai is worse than a six int barbarian tweaking on meth, it's extra scaling for something that will only hurt you. Second with the hires you can't use one in a raid.

    I agree helf is the absolute worst option but saying you don't need to be able to raise or heal is wrong in this stage of ddo. Everything is byoh with good reason, if you can't take care of yourself at this stage in the game you are a gimp.

    no, am saying it is good to have these. you just don't have to be helf. i mean say you are a fighter, go for 2 rogue 18 fighter, and you could reach max 24 umd at 20. with some simple gear you could umd heal scroll/res scroll at same/better rate. and at the same time you can use displacement, gh, blur, shield.. etc many other things. i mean after all helf dil never give you 100% chance, so why not go for umd instead. 2 rogue give you 1d6 sneak attack and evasion. if you have any reflex that is..

    p.s. as to 5% exp lost.. you won't lose any exp if you you don't require the hire to follow you.. just pause him at doorway, then go into quest. when you are hurt or need help summon him.. after the battle lead him somewhere safe and park him there. thats what i do when i have to do some nasty quest...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    A helf would be in the same catagory as those, just at a lesser level.

    As opposed to spending them where? I have yet to find a character that couldn't get away with spending 1/4th in a racial tree and not end up worse off.
    not sure how you do it.. but unless it is really gonna change my build, i usually do not spend over 10 point in racial tree. i mean stuff like dex to damage these are core of a build.. which are important. but forfeit all racial bonus of other race, and waste tons of ap just for umd heal scroll.. am not so sure about it..


    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Because? Wouldn't playing a race less optimal in other ways also be a fair price to pay for that ability? That seems to be where the disconnect is happening here. I see nothing wrong with helfs as they allow players to trade optimization elsewhere for some added utility without having to jump trough a bunch of hoops or waste time grinding specific content. It seems a fair trade off to me, but I guess some just can't wrap their minds around the concept of trading away any optimization that need not be. Maybe if I explain it as optimizing the entertainment value of play time, it might make sense.
    not really. if you want healing ability splash several cleric level.. or fvs level. they will actually let you casting heal spell with spell power. and open up more enhancement tree.. i totally understand the concept of trading optimization for utility. but helf is just not the way to do it correctly. i would rather splash umd class or healing class for these instead of take helf. because helf dil is so limited, it only give you so little for so much cost. imo not worth it.

    p.s. any class, especially wiz splash two level of rogue for evasion and traping ability is totally worth it. but making a helf wizard just to umd scroll is not worth it imo. with those ap you could get a simple shroud and heal yourself with death aura and negative energy burst.



    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Anything beyond putting skill points into UMD to make it functional takes it out of the tiny amount category. 11ish UMD at 20 does very little. Personalty I might try to pull it off, but wouldn't be overly concerned if I couldn't. The game just doesn't punish "losing" enough to lose sleep over it and likely wouldn't be able to maintain a viable player base if it did..
    11ish umd is little. but it allow you to umd blur and shield scroll. along with some other neat small stuff. and with some simple effort you could get it up to 20..
    delera chain reward a +3 umd necklace, which is easy to acquire and bound to account.
    update 5 last of the chain reward big top(common) which give stackable +1 umd.
    stuff with command (random generate loot) give you +2 umd (if you don't have any pack, this is your best bet.. )
    great heroism give you +4 moral bonus to skill check (even you can't cast it.. you can still travel to other plane where grant constant gh..)
    base stats of 14 charisma give you +2 umd
    guild buff give +1 charisma skill
    good luck item give +1~3 luck bonus to skill check
    action boost can give you up to +5 skill bonus
    monk finisher can give up to +7 to skill bonus..

    p.s. what i list here are the most simple acquire source of umd.. you barely need to farm anything.. these should give your umd above 30.. or at least 20 if you have hard time with some of them... hope this help


    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Or choose helf and not worry about cha if it isn't otherwise a real useful stat on one's first (and likely only) life build and not worry about having to grind out a raid for a t3 gs item and not worry about having to use that rare tome on a character that doesn't otherwise gain advantage from it. One actually has to have the desire to run the math to even get to that point.

    You are so far away, you don't even see what I'm talking about. Just because helf isn't a great min/max choice, doesn't mean it is not a great choice otherwise.

    Let's put it this way. I'm in a guild of about 100 players. I have the only greensteel in the guild. Only about 5 of us have TRs, only a couple others have played to epic levels. It looks like of that subset of the game only 1% would be able to do what you say less than 10% would even be in a position to do so. Most in my guild would ask why they should waste points on UMD if they likely wouldn't even be able to use it until if and when they are able to not only run Shroud, but run many. What's the worth of a skill that can't even be used most of the effective game life of any particular character.
    you don't need high charisma to umd, nor do you need green steel to umd... also even with 1 point in umd you may attempt to use shield, blur these basic stuff..

    p.s. gj on guild over 100 population but only one green steel... nice...

  15. #95
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    It's not about what they are best at, it's about what they make less complex. UMD with it's long checklist to be really useful is mostly ignored by a huge chunk of the player base.
    DDO is the Dwarf Fortress of MMOs. Half Elf has never been about making things less complex but rather adding yet another ability to your arsenal. Personally I only rarely considered the possibility of using the caster dilettantes previous to the enhancement pass but now I would never consider them. Simply too expensive for any of my builds to squeeze in.
    Last edited by Ryiah; 10-03-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I call bs

    UMD is not a spreadsheet min max thing.
    Let's put our goals on the table to see if your bs call is right. The main goal for UMD is being able to use Heal scrolls with 100% chance of success. Everything else that requires more UMD is usually not required to use during combat, thus do not have the same 100% requirement as Heal. This put us on the fight for 39 UMD.

    Since we are discussing off-class ranks, we will assume a starting Charisma of 10.

    Half elves can scroll Heal with 95% success chance at level 10 if they wish to. Not cheap, will forfeit a lot of stuff, but possible.

    At level 10 you can get your UMD to 18: 6.5 ranks + 1 stat tome (Cha+2) + 3 stat item (Cha+6) + 3 Persuasion item + 4 Greater Heroism (Planar Gird or potion) + 1 Luck (VotM). All on that list is easily obtained without any farming (VotM is a static reward on the list), but the GH potions might be expensive to drink every quest.

    At level 11, when you take GS from the bank, this number raises to 25: +0.5 ranks +6 Cha Skill GS. This will give you 30% chance to scroll Heal. It only goes to 19 if you do not have a GS item.

    At level 20, your total goes to 31: 11 ranks + 2 stat tome (Cha+4) + 4 stat item (Sage's Ring) + 3 Persuasion item + 4 Greater Heroism (Planar Gird or potion or scroll) + 1 Luck (VotM) + 6 Greensteel. Still at 60% chance. The +4 tome is rare as hell, but you can buy it at the store, so I'll keep it there on the list.

    At level 28, it goes to 38. 95% chance. 100% if you find a Charisma +10 item.

    That is the "non-min-max UMD" thing we've been talking about. You reasonably get enough UMD to scroll Heal while in combat when you are level capped. And by that time, 110 HP Heal scrolls just do not cut in anymore. To make UMD Heal useful, you must be able to make it during mid-high heroic levels. And that requires a ton of gear farming, and/or using 3-6 pieces of gear with small bonus that stacks.
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  17. #97
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Let's put our goals on the table to see if your bs call is right. The main goal for UMD is being able to use Heal scrolls with 100% chance of success. Everything else that requires more UMD is usually not required to use during combat, thus do not have the same 100% requirement as Heal. This put us on the fight for 39 UMD.

    Since we are discussing off-class ranks, we will assume a starting Charisma of 10.

    Half elves can scroll Heal with 95% success chance at level 10 if they wish to. Not cheap, will forfeit a lot of stuff, but possible.

    At level 10 you can get your UMD to 18: 6.5 ranks + 1 stat tome (Cha+2) + 3 stat item (Cha+6) + 3 Persuasion item + 4 Greater Heroism (Planar Gird or potion) + 1 Luck (VotM). All on that list is easily obtained without any farming (VotM is a static reward on the list), but the GH potions might be expensive to drink every quest.

    At level 11, when you take GS from the bank, this number raises to 25: +0.5 ranks +6 Cha Skill GS. This will give you 30% chance to scroll Heal. It only goes to 19 if you do not have a GS item.

    At level 20, your total goes to 31: 11 ranks + 2 stat tome (Cha+4) + 4 stat item (Sage's Ring) + 3 Persuasion item + 4 Greater Heroism (Planar Gird or potion or scroll) + 1 Luck (VotM) + 6 Greensteel. Still at 60% chance. The +4 tome is rare as hell, but you can buy it at the store, so I'll keep it there on the list.

    At level 28, it goes to 38. 95% chance. 100% if you find a Charisma +10 item.

    That is the "non-min-max UMD" thing we've been talking about. You reasonably get enough UMD to scroll Heal while in combat when you are level capped. And by that time, 110 HP Heal scrolls just do not cut in anymore. To make UMD Heal useful, you must be able to make it during mid-high heroic levels. And that requires a ton of gear farming, and/or using 3-6 pieces of gear with small bonus that stacks.
    You really want to figure it out for min level
    +2 umd skill tome
    +1 spider cult mask
    +1 the big top

    so if you want to go for max possible to see how early you can get it.

    4 what I mentioned earlier
    3 persuasion or golden cartouche
    5 cha modifier
    1 cha ship buff
    6 greensteel
    1 yugo cha
    4 gh
    3 arti pl
    2 luck from recitation
    7 ranks (level 11)
    =
    36 so 80% at level 11.

    Now personally I think melee should be splashing at least 1 cleric on every build now so assuming you did that you'd want to start with 14 cha which takes nothing to do, which would bring it to 90%.

    Yes that part is a lot of stuff to get it to level 11, but even you proved that a build can do it by 28 with 100% and that 110 you talked about is actually about 228 when you factor in getting a little healing amp from gear and enhancements. A 200+ hp heal is more than enough to keep you alive unless you are fighting stupid and taking on more than you can chew even in ee.

    As far as you claiming you need heal scrolls at 10 or 11 I find that a little ridiculous to start with since csw potions will heal you fine till about level 12.
    Last edited by Charononus; 10-03-2013 at 10:34 PM.

  18. #98
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Is this thread about someone being ****ed they bought a helf a year or so ago?
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  19. #99
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Is this thread about someone being ****ed they bought a helf a year or so ago?
    it's about how helf got Turbined and should be fixed.

    That said can you really blame someone for being mad they got hit with a bait and switch?

  20. #100
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    +2 umd skill tome
    Fair. Used the stat tome and forgot the skill tome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    +1 spider cult mask
    Can't get it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    +1 the big top
    Requires farming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    5 cha modifier
    Starting 10 +6 item +2 tome = 18. Total 4 modifier. A +3 tome would result in the same modifier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    1 cha ship buff
    Not acessible to everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    6 greensteel
    Requires farming in a previous life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    1 yugo cha
    Requires farming in a previous life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    3 arti pl
    By definition, requires to be a TR 4+

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    2 luck from recitation
    Recitation is a short-term buff (specially when scrolled). Voice is a perma buff of the same kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    36 so 80% at level 11.
    If we remove the grind items and the arti past lifes, it is 21. 27 with GS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    that 110 you talked about is actually about 228 when you factor in getting a little healing amp from gear and enhancements. A 200+ hp heal is more than enough to keep you alive unless you are fighting stupid and taking on more than you can chew even in ee.
    Acessible heal amp: 30% from PDK gloves. That is it.

    You can get more depending on class and race (30% from Shintao, 20% from KotC, 30% from human, 40% from helf). But the only acessible heal amp item right now in the game is the PDK gloves. Convalescent is out of the loot tables, and any other heal amp item requires a ton of grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    As far as you claiming you need heal scrolls at 10 or 11 I find that a little ridiculous to start with since csw potions will heal you fine till about level 12.
    I'm not claiming that you requires it at level 10. I was saying that a half elf, if they wish, can use them since level 10. At 95% success chance. UMD take much longer to kick in, unless you have a lot of gear.
    Last edited by nibel; 10-03-2013 at 11:51 PM.
    Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist (12/14) [<o>]
    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma


    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Kensai, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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