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  1. #1
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    Angry somthings make "Celestia" useless

    1.Exalted Angel:Innate ability,Blessed blades.Add alignment damage type if you are not ture neutral.
    2.Warpriest:Righteous Weapons chain.Add "magic" damage type.
    THese unnecessary damage types makes "Celestia" can't bypass monster's DR.
    Is it a bug?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowranger View Post
    1.Exalted Angel:Innate ability,Blessed blades.Add alignment damage type if you are not ture neutral.
    2.Warpriest:Righteous Weapons chain.Add "magic" damage type.
    THese unnecessary damage types makes "Celestia" can't bypass monster's DR.
    Is it a bug?
    This has been a known issue for a long time...anything that adds damage properties to celestia breaks the sword from only doing light damage. Hence they put a blue slot instead of a red slot on last tier upgrade.

  3. #3
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    serious magic damage type is so lame.. i mean who would need that.... change it to good or silver or adam.. or bypass type of metal type favor by deity(use the dr type grant by fvs cap..)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    This has been a known issue for a long time...anything that adds damage properties to celestia breaks the sword from only doing light damage. Hence they put a blue slot instead of a red slot on last tier upgrade.
    You can actually add deadly or elemental damage to it just fine. It's only magic, metal, and alignment damage types that break it. (Or I suppose if something added slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage but I can't think of anything that does that right now)

  5. #5
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    You can actually add deadly or elemental damage to it just fine. It's only magic, metal, and alignment damage types that break it. (Or I suppose if something added slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage but I can't think of anything that does that right now)
    druid animal form might but, have not tested

  6. #6
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    Was planning on a Ninja Spy build with them but missing out on some Shintao core abilities is a bit painful, well that and no red slot so have to put devotion somewhere else has me thinking of just scrapping the whole idea. With so many different ways now to get metal or alignment bypass I really hope the devs will look into this, but I guess the green slot was the fix and we just have to work around it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayseifn View Post
    With so many different ways now to get metal or alignment bypass I really hope the devs will look into this, but I guess the green slot was the fix and we just have to work around it.
    When we finally got an answer to it we were told that it would basically require a massive rewrite of the way DDO handles weapon damage checking so unless they had some other reason to make changes to that part of the game it wasn't going to happen.

    EDIT: found the post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Salutations!

    This is an internally known-issue, and has been since Menace of the Underdark was in development. There isn't a real fix, only workarounds. For example, Celestia has its own special versions of the Enhancement Bonus and Supreme Good effects, which don't apply the Magic and Good damage flags to it, respectively.

    If it gets any other damage flags, then the game's combat damage system will consider it to be dealing physical damage, and it will begin to be affected by Damage Reduction.

    The way to avoid this is to not use enhancements or other effects with it that will apply additional damage flags to your attacks.

    Unfortunately, there is currently no ETA for a change to this, as it would involve an entire overhaul to the guts of how weapon damage and Damage Reduction function, which would be a large task for our engineering team. If at some future point there are enough available resources to address this issue with the Damage Reduction system, we may be able to address it in the future.

  8. #8
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    This has been a known issue for a long time...anything that adds damage properties to celestia breaks the sword from only doing light damage. Hence they put a blue slot instead of a red slot on last tier upgrade.
    So its idiotproofed instead of good.

    Who cares about idiots who would attemt to add DR breaking there.
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  9. #9
    Community Member shibe's Avatar
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    Hi,

    This is a subject I am not really very knowledgeable on and would like to understand it better. Can someone please explain in more layman terms how all this works and what exactly isn't working right with the Celestia? There are a lot of variables I don't quite get. I have one my self that is one tier away from being fully upgraded so I would like to know what would be the best thing to do. Maybe I shouldn't be using it at all? Anyway any clear explanation would be most welcome to a new comer to this stuff.

    THanks!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibe View Post
    Hi,

    This is a subject I am not really very knowledgeable on and would like to understand it better. Can someone please explain in more layman terms how all this works and what exactly isn't working right with the Celestia? There are a lot of variables I don't quite get. I have one my self that is one tier away from being fully upgraded so I would like to know what would be the best thing to do. Maybe I shouldn't be using it at all? Anyway any clear explanation would be most welcome to a new comer to this stuff.

    THanks!
    One of the nice properties of Celestia is that it does "light" damage instead of physical damage. This mean that it ignores physical DR on mobs (silver,cold iron, slashing, etc..) and does full damage instead.

    If you have an enhancement or other ability that adds a metal type, alignment, or magic damage type to your weapons then Celestia is considered to do physical damage again and is now reduced by DR.

    If you only use it to bypass DR and have one of those abilities then it's not really worth it. If you don't have one of those abilities or just use it because it's not too bad of a weapon then there is no problem.

  11. #11
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    For Celestia the following abilities and spells are fine to use if I remember correctly:

    1. Deadly Weapons
    2. Elemental Weapons
    3. Alchemical Force Ritual
    4. Alchemical Force Critical Ritual
    5. Lighting the Candle

    Pretty much everything else will break the weapon and subject it to the DR mechanic. (Note, this list is not exhaustive, simply what I remember off the top of my head).

    ---

    Extended details regarding the situation follows:

    ---

    The whole "Weapon Damage" numbers mechanic revolves around the following aspects:

    1. Damage Type "Physical" (Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeon, Magic, Epic, Silver, Cold Iron, Adamantine, Mithril, Byeshk, Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)
    2. Damage Type "Energy" (Force, Magic, Electric, Acid, Fire, Cold, Sonic, Light, Positive, Negative, Repair, Rust?, Untyped, Poison*?)

    * Currently I am unsure where Poison sits, but it's likely within the "Energy" type.

    1. On ANY damage from a weapon source (so not spells, but actual attacks made from swings, spells run the Spell Penetration/Spell Resistance Check), a check is then made for each successful attack to see if there is any Damage Type "Physical" involved.

    2. If there is ANY Damage Type "Physical" then this is subject to Damage Reduction, and so Damage Reduction is automatically applied as this falls under interpretation of Damage Reduction. (This is most likely where the problem is found within, as it is likely when DDO was in it's infancy, the Dev's waaay back then were thinking that any weapon attack will always be have physical aspects and so made a core mechanic of combat to always check for each of these "Physical" aspects and if it is found, it must be a physical attack and so DR is called. And the mechanic is not a seperated module or table to check up against, resulting in needing to overhauling the whole mechcnic rather than just updating a file to fix.)

    2. If the damage type is listed as "Energy" then apply any "Energy" Resistance. And then apply any "Energy" Immunity Reduction, etc...

    Anyway, that's probably not 100% on what actually happens, but the general flow of what happens I think is close enough to what is occuring in the damage (core) mechanic in question.

    So in the case of Celestia (and Druid Flame Blade) here...

    With a Normal Celestia and nothing else:
    1. Celestia Damage Type = Light. So it only deals Damage Type "Energy", as "Light" Damage is an Energy type.
    2. Hence, there is no DR check and it bypasses any and all DR when Celestia is used to successfully hit something.
    3. Only Energy Resist is checked to reduce damage.
    4. Only Energy Immunity is checked to reduce damage.

    And what happens with most of the situations here that break Celestia is...

    Normal Celestia, but has someone/something granting soemthing else onto Celestia:
    1. Celestia Damage Type = Light. So it only deals Damage Type "Energy", as "Light" Damage is an Energy type.
    2. Artificer casts "Adamantine Weapons" on your Celestia. (Or any other ability giving one of thoes listed as under Damage Type "Physical")
    3. Your Celestia now has Celestia Damage Type = Light and Adamantine.
    4. DR check see's Damage Type "Adamantine" from the damage type.
    5. Calls the DR mechanic to deal with the damage from this source.
    6. Energy Resist is checked to reduce damage left over from Damage Reduction check.
    7. Energy Immunity is checked to reduce damage.

    So... Yeah. I'm happy with how they've handled Celestia considering the alternative. (An overhaul of something that nearly everything in the game calls in terms of code is not something to be done lightly. One wrong move and we can have a 100% broken game on our hands.)

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  12. #12
    Community Member shibe's Avatar
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    Thumbs up The Celestia Prophesy

    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    For Celestia the following abilities and spells are fine to use if I remember correctly:

    1. Deadly Weapons
    2. Elemental Weapons
    3. Alchemical Force Ritual
    4. Alchemical Force Critical Ritual
    5. Lighting the Candle

    Pretty much everything else will break the weapon and subject it to the DR mechanic. (Note, this list is not exhaustive, simply what I remember off the top of my head).

    ---

    Extended details regarding the situation follows:

    ---

    The whole "Weapon Damage" numbers mechanic revolves around the following aspects:

    1. Damage Type "Physical" (Slashing, Piercing, Bludgeon, Magic, Epic, Silver, Cold Iron, Adamantine, Mithril, Byeshk, Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)
    2. Damage Type "Energy" (Force, Magic, Electric, Acid, Fire, Cold, Sonic, Light, Positive, Negative, Repair, Rust?, Untyped, Poison*?)

    * Currently I am unsure where Poison sits, but it's likely within the "Energy" type.

    1. On ANY damage from a weapon source (so not spells, but actual attacks made from swings, spells run the Spell Penetration/Spell Resistance Check), a check is then made for each successful attack to see if there is any Damage Type "Physical" involved.

    2. If there is ANY Damage Type "Physical" then this is subject to Damage Reduction, and so Damage Reduction is automatically applied as this falls under interpretation of Damage Reduction. (This is most likely where the problem is found within, as it is likely when DDO was in it's infancy, the Dev's waaay back then were thinking that any weapon attack will always be have physical aspects and so made a core mechanic of combat to always check for each of these "Physical" aspects and if it is found, it must be a physical attack and so DR is called. And the mechanic is not a seperated module or table to check up against, resulting in needing to overhauling the whole mechcnic rather than just updating a file to fix.)

    2. If the damage type is listed as "Energy" then apply any "Energy" Resistance. And then apply any "Energy" Immunity Reduction, etc...

    Anyway, that's probably not 100% on what actually happens, but the general flow of what happens I think is close enough to what is occuring in the damage (core) mechanic in question.

    So in the case of Celestia (and Druid Flame Blade) here...

    With a Normal Celestia and nothing else:
    1. Celestia Damage Type = Light. So it only deals Damage Type "Energy", as "Light" Damage is an Energy type.
    2. Hence, there is no DR check and it bypasses any and all DR when Celestia is used to successfully hit something.
    3. Only Energy Resist is checked to reduce damage.
    4. Only Energy Immunity is checked to reduce damage.

    And what happens with most of the situations here that break Celestia is...

    Normal Celestia, but has someone/something granting soemthing else onto Celestia:
    1. Celestia Damage Type = Light. So it only deals Damage Type "Energy", as "Light" Damage is an Energy type.
    2. Artificer casts "Adamantine Weapons" on your Celestia. (Or any other ability giving one of thoes listed as under Damage Type "Physical")
    3. Your Celestia now has Celestia Damage Type = Light and Adamantine.
    4. DR check see's Damage Type "Adamantine" from the damage type.
    5. Calls the DR mechanic to deal with the damage from this source.
    6. Energy Resist is checked to reduce damage left over from Damage Reduction check.
    7. Energy Immunity is checked to reduce damage.

    So... Yeah. I'm happy with how they've handled Celestia considering the alternative. (An overhaul of something that nearly everything in the game calls in terms of code is not something to be done lightly. One wrong move and we can have a 100% broken game on our hands.)

    J1NG
    Thank you very much for that explanation. I think I have a better grasp of how it works now.

    Another user mentioned this:
    "This has been a known issue for a long time...anything that adds damage properties to Celestia breaks the sword from only doing light damage. Hence they put a blue slot instead of a red slot on last tier upgrade."

    How does this help? What would be the best Sapphire to place in the blue slot for over all epic gaming in DDO with the Celestia? I suppose it really depends on your play style but I am interested in what people have done and why.

    Thanks again J1NG for that thorough explanation. It helps over all.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Hence they put a blue slot instead of a red slot on last tier upgrade.
    Green slot. Not blue.
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    Community Member shibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Green slot. Not blue.
    What is good to put in the green slot?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    serious magic damage type is so lame.. i mean who would need that.... change it to good or silver or adam.. or bypass type of metal type favor by deity(use the dr type grant by fvs cap..)
    I brought it up on lamm before patch but it was not addressed, it should be left as nothing or added damage types should have toggles
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibe View Post
    What is good to put in the green slot?
    SP, elemental resist, fortification (if you use celestia 24/7), false life, PRR, imperial blood, vitality, XP bonus, stat, skill...

    Basically, anything but red slots. Because if someone slotted alignment bypass or metal bypass, they would break the weapon.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    SP, elemental resist, fortification (if you use celestia 24/7), false life, PRR, imperial blood, vitality, XP bonus, stat, skill...

    Basically, anything but red slots. Because if someone slotted alignment bypass or metal bypass, they would break the weapon.
    That would be their own fault, and their own problem.

    Bunch of people trying to add metal type to weapon bypassing all DRs is not good reason to deny all players with IQ above 60 possibility to put inside spellpower or elemental DPS.
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    People who exploit bugs in code are cheaters cheaters cheaters. And they are big fat ****yheads too.

  18. #18
    Community Member shibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    That would be their own fault, and their own problem.

    Bunch of people trying to add metal type to weapon bypassing all DRs is not good reason to deny all players with IQ above 60 possibility to put inside spellpower or elemental DPS.
    I suppose you are right, it would be their own problem. But that is why we are all here. To help each other. I didn't realize that the Celestia, the brightest star of day, was something that bypassed all DRs. Not until now. Thanks though. Maybe I should have read the wiki.

  19. #19
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowranger View Post
    1.Exalted Angel:Innate ability,Blessed blades.Add alignment damage type if you are not ture neutral.
    2.Warpriest:Righteous Weapons chain.Add "magic" damage type.
    THese unnecessary damage types makes "Celestia" can't bypass monster's DR.
    Is it a bug?
    3. Gird Against Demons (from Furry of the Wild ED) adds Cold Iron and thus breaks Celestia too (tested myself).
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  20. #20
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    What about Holy and Good from unyielding sentinel?
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