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  1. #121
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Wow what an elaborate narrative. So let me get this straight: More people leave because of nerfs that DON'T get done than ones that do, and being creative with builds is "exploiting". So apparently using Turbine pre-made paths is "doing it right"? Look if you're not creative, or are uninterested in "seeing what you can build" and just want to roll with a pure class and have fun playing, then go for it (though I can recommend a few MMO's that have rock paper scissors (these days called Trinty) class balance you might be happier playing), but please:

    Just because you always make the thing pictured on the LEGO box, does not mean the kid who always used the same parts to make something more interesting to him, is somehow WRONG or EXPLOITING the LEGO's.

    If you insist on this notion that non-nerfs lose more players than nerfs do you'll need to provide data that supports your claim. Unless you have data to share I'm afraid all your assertion is; is a hopelessly counter intuitive hypothetical statement with an improbably backward cause and effect relationship.
    I can imagine that people leave because they think there is a balance problem in this game. It's an important reason for new players to leave. They join a group but get blown away by casters and TRs. That demotivates them and they decide to leave right away. While there are no numbers available, it's credible that the amount of new players that left for this reason is higher than the amount of long time players leaving because of nerfs. After all, the largest share of leaving people consists of the ones that try out the game for a few days and then decide it's not the game for them.

  2. #122
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    So rapier's the new khopesh?



    What is rogue-3 getting you, as far as dex to damage? With quarterstaves? That's the only thing I know of. And I don't think "melee weapons that can be used with weapon finesse" is quite as flexible as "all slashing/piercing". Not by a long shot. Not to mention it's 5 levels and two classes, vs 3 levels of a single class.

    Perhaps we just define "flexibility" differently though.



    Well, constantly changing things is kind of the halmark of most mmo's. It does get annoying, to be sure, but eh, it's the nature of the beast.
    everytime u post, fuel price rises

    rapier were, and are, the best 1 handed weapon that doesn't recquire feat( the example is that is threated as light weapon)

    assassin 2nd core, not hard when someone says "3 rogue lvls" to check 2 cores of each pre, not hard i think

    and what monks had "all slashing and piercing weapons" was plain dumb, affecting a weapon by damage type (what is objective, like the stat used to hit/damage that some named have, it's not pnp so i simply won't accept a staff that deals piercing weapon because it's so awful designed that needs IC to work) so they must work by weapon group/type

    nerf to monks? really? it's sad to see that wow's pally crying dumbness started again
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  3. #123
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I've literally kicked myself in the balls getting out of bed.
    How the hell'd ya manage that one?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I don't know man, I'm probably the least dextrous person you'll ever hear from (clumsy). I've literally kicked myself in the balls getting out of bed. I really doubt that any amount of training would improve someone like me.
    Do you generally hit yourself in the head swinging a baseball bat? If so you would probably be one of those people with 5 or less to a stat that the game doesn't even consider as worthy to be an adventurer. Else I doubt a few 10's of thousands of practice swings wouldn't make you better.

  5. #125
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    Personally I am very frustrated by Turbines fli flopping as well, Ive seen it negatively effect several players desire to continue with the game of late. And the fact they felt the need to alter ninja spy before fixxing the drow tree really has me ****ed.

    Now on to the debate.

    While I have personally seen an elderly woman, in her 60s, who was the grandaughter of the judo/jujitsu dojo founder take on and defeat the 5 much younger adults who taught the students regularly with ease, I wont at all deny strength and youthful agility are powerful assets in a fight.

    Historically the best warriors are mixtures of stats that hearken back to 2nd ed and the days when classes had stat reqs to meet. For example a man like El Cid, clearly was possessed of great physical as well as mental ability. A strong, and quick sword arm, a keen mind that learned the art and learned it well, and the wisdom to put it to proper use, along with strong tactical understanding, and a charsimatic disposition that would have former rivals seek him out to become an ally.

    Or Musashi Miyomoto, the most legendary of japan's swordsmen, the one and only true real world kensai as he is pretty much the source of that classes entire design concept.

    This man was well known to be large and powerful by typical japanese male standards. Ive read he was likely well over 6 feet tall, virtually a giant among them in an era where the typical height was closer to 5 and a half feet tall. He was also considered ugly, and some things I have read suggest in his youth many thought him slow witted.

    However by the time he was 14, he had already won his first duel. And would go on to have many that where documented after being witnessed. Most fought and won using only a simple wooden practice sword against men carrying katana, the sword even one of britains masters of arms has gone on record stating it may be perhaps the most perfect tool for killing a man in melee ever designed. Yet a man using speed, strength, and an understanding of the tactics and flaws of traditional sword play would go on to defeat many other well trained men.

    In the end the real issue with DDo is the inability to stack these stat mods. In PnP several PRC and feats exist not to give stats to over write another but add with. Likewise several skills are commonly house ruled in my experience to give smart fighters more advantages, like the anatomy skill working much like our seeker bonus works in DDO for example is one I have seen used around many a table top to various degrees.

    If anything I feel the sudden rise in dex users is not even many who where formerly strength users. many of us have been playing dex fighters on DDO since launch suffering the inequality that we had to with strength specs. Now we have a chance to rise and shine, and those who always hated us still do. They want their triple digit ****** barbs to remain king melee dps at any costs.

  6. #126
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    How the hell'd ya manage that one?
    Startled awake by the baby crying in the next room, foot was twirled into the sheets, the rest is a blur of tripping falling and pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Do you generally hit yourself in the head swinging a baseball bat? If so you would probably be one of those people with 5 or less to a stat that the game doesn't even consider as worthy to be an adventurer. Else I doubt a few 10's of thousands of practice swings wouldn't make you better.
    Have but not every time.

    In general though I'm clumsy enough to be a menace to myself and anyone in the same room as me.

  7. #127
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Startled awake by the baby crying in the next room, foot was twirled into the sheets, the rest is a blur of tripping falling and pain.
    ...I saw it happening differently..

    Anyway, got any other interesting stories I can file away for later use?

  8. #128
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    ...I saw it happening differently..

    Anyway, got any other interesting stories I can file away for later use?
    heh not that I can think of at the moment but it's early, I may think of something later once I'm awake. =P

  9. #129
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    heh not that I can think of at the moment but it's early, I may think of something later once I'm awake. =P
    Go drink a gallon of coffee, then reply back in two hours.

    I'll be here. (Or busy yelling at a pug, abusing legend lives for dying in druid's curse - again.)

  10. #130
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01000010 View Post
    Ive played this game a long time, there have been a lot of unreasonable nerfs in this game. Oftentimes the nerfs appear to have been side effects of turbine not wanting to fix game mechanics to work as intended, this is getting worse recently.

    It is lazy and irresponsible and it hurts the game, many of my friends have left after ridiculous nerfs and I could go on for hours detailing them.

    Take the effort to do things right or you will lose more customers, its that simple.


    Edited due to some bad info.
    I have played this game a long time, there have been a lot of unreasonable complaints by players in this game. Often times players uninformative remarks tend to point blame at Turbine when they really do not know to what they are really speaking of, and they launch insults at Turbine like lazy, poor designers, irresponsible, etc...

    Then they cap it off by saying that many players have left the game because of there view points of Turbine's failures and unless they get take the effort to get it right many more will leave the game, it's that simple.

    While I will agree Turbine could have made a few different decisions that may please some players or even make the game perform better they have certainly put great effort and money into DDO this can not be disputed. So to call them lazy and irresponsible is lazy and irresponsible from the players that make these claims without being better able to get their points across without being so incendiary or insulting. In other words these types of players just lack the ability to be civilized with their conversation, maybe they don't have the ability to be civilized who knows.

    The best decisions Turbine has made besides adding new and great content is when they see a need to adjust game play (nerf as some call it) to better balance it and make classes more viable. I for one would hate to see everyone in the game play only one class because they are so unbalanced that to play any other class would be useless. Anyone remember the way wounded & puncturing weapons were back in the day, there was no reason to have any other weapon so Turbine made a much needed adjustment to the game. Instead of insults, Turbine gets my thanks for their adjustments to the game.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I have played this game a long time, there have been a lot of unreasonable complaints by players in this game. Often times players uninformative remarks tend to point blame at Turbine when they really do not know to what they are really speaking of, and they launch insults at Turbine like lazy, poor designers, irresponsible, etc...
    Unreasonable complaint, lol. Don't know what im speaking of? Here are some facts.

    1. previous to these changes, the tier 2 monkspy core cause a bug that overwrote damage on bow characters with higher strength than dex
    2. previous to these changes, the Monk poison was had a bug where it wasn't working on several weapons(especially handwraps that could do slash/pierce damage) that it was supposed to work on(as per dev comment and common sense).
    3. by changing both of these enhancements(textwise) to exclude bows and weapons that aren't normally slash/pierce(as in handwraps) turbine was able to "fix" 2 bugs without addressing the root of the problems.
    4. The result of these actions was a severe nerf to some builds.

    It doesn't take a genius or someone wearing a tin foil hat to add these up. Forum readers are supposed to be the educated segment of the player base right? Many seem so naïve and unaware.

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Then they cap it off by saying that many players have left the game because of there view points of Turbine's failures and unless they get take the effort to get it right many more will leave the game, it's that simple.
    It is lazy and irresponsible and it has and will cost them customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    While I will agree Turbine could have made a few different decisions that may please some players or even make the game perform better they have certainly put great effort and money into DDO this can not be disputed. So to call them lazy and irresponsible is lazy and irresponsible from the players that make these claims without being better able to get their points across without being so incendiary or insulting. In other words these types of players just lack the ability to be civilized with their conversation, maybe they don't have the ability to be civilized who knows.
    If I could think of a happy friendly way to say "hey, ive lost 100s of hours of game time leveling builds that you then nerfed just because you didn't want to make the effort to fix bugs" I surely would.

    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    The best decisions Turbine has made besides adding new and great content is when they see a need to adjust game play (nerf as some call it) to better balance it and make classes more viable. I for one would hate to see everyone in the game play only one class because they are so unbalanced that to play any other class would be useless. Anyone remember the way wounded & puncturing weapons were back in the day, there was no reason to have any other weapon so Turbine made a much needed adjustment to the game. Instead of insults, Turbine gets my thanks for their adjustments to the game.
    This was no balance issue, anyone who has played a bow character will tell you str to damage is far more powerful than dex, because str can be buffed far higher, additionally it is needed for overwhelming crit, which is a must on many dps builds nowadays. Poison was supposed to work on handwraps with slash or pierce damage capabilities from day one, since it never really worked I cant see how any imbalance came from it.

    For those claiming that it was only supposed to work on melee weaps that fall within the confines of imp crit slash or pierce, well, that's quite an assumption there. First of all devs specifically stated that it should work with any weapon that could do slash/pierce damage, including handwraps and other weaps that normally wouldn't. Additionally, it has always worked with and STILL works with shuriken, which is slash but certainly doesn't fall under imp crit slash.

    To the people saying only str should add to damage, well, that's your opinion. It certainly doesn't justify this bs either way. I could go into some detail about my experience in combat sports and try to prove strength isn't the endall for damage, but that's something people just wont get who haven't experienced it firsthand I imagine, for the record tho, id put in maybe 6th out of 10 attributes that govern damage dealing in a fight.

    The funny thing is this is surely not over, because the same tier 2 core mokspy still interferes with PDK charisma to shortsword, so which enhancement will get nerfed to fix that? If they stay the course the word "shortswords" will either be taken off the monk dex mod core or the pdk charisma mod enhancement, because they sure haven't shown they know how to fix it otherwise.
    Last edited by 01000010; 09-29-2013 at 07:44 AM.

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