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  1. #81
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Well Crono than you should go play a different game where versatile is a bad word, here we like things to be flexible.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-27-2013 at 02:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Thats not being discussed either. If you took arnold and did the same thing, subjected him to atrophy, hed have an equally hard time.

    What I am talking about is more akin to MMA before the weight classes got introduced, and gracie, weighing 180 lbs or so, dominating guys that weighed 100 more pounds than he did with all of it being muscle mass. Power lifters and body builders were getting into the octagon with this dude and getting twisted up by someone with far less sheer physicality than they had, strictly due to technique.

    The way we build str based DPS toons in this game usually dumps dex, and the equivilent str based dump dex person in real life would cut themselves down before harming anyone else.
    The guys Gracies was beating weren't real fighters. Never accuse a "martial artist" of knowing how to fight.

    You will not see this happening in modern MMA with weight-classes and all actually knowing how to fight.

  3. #83
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Well Crono than you should go play a different game where versatile is a bad word, here we like things to be flexible.
    Dnd was originally written as a way of adding magic into a medival wargame. Using different stats as to hit and damage has reduced the realism factor in the various versions as time has gone on, and has been a mistake the makers of dnd have made.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Thats not being discussed either. If you took arnold and did the same thing, subjected him to atrophy, hed have an equally hard time.

    What I am talking about is more akin to MMA before the weight classes got introduced, and gracie, weighing 180 lbs or so, dominating guys that weighed 100 more pounds than he did with all of it being muscle mass. Power lifters and body builders were getting into the octagon with this dude and getting twisted up by someone with far less sheer physicality than they had, strictly due to technique.

    The way we build str based DPS toons in this game usually dumps dex, and the equivilent str based dump dex person in real life would cut themselves down before harming anyone else.
    Neither strength nor dex holds a candle to training and practice. I would hope a trained fighter could beat an untrained body builder at fighting.

    So, no. With proper training and practice, a low dex person could likely be quite lethal.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    The guys Gracies was beating weren't real fighters. Never accuse a "martial artist" of knowing how to fight.

    You will not see this happening in modern MMA with weight-classes and all actually knowing how to fight.
    the guys gracie were fighting were "real" fighters they didnt know how to deal with a ground game.....because of gracies dominence modern mma fighters are trained in the ground game

  6. #86
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Neither strength nor dex holds a candle to training and practice. I would hope a trained fighter could beat an untrained body builder at fighting.

    So, no. With proper training and practice, a low dex person could likely be quite lethal.
    With proper training a person builds dex and str.

  7. #87
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Dnd was originally written as a way of adding magic into a medival wargame. Using different stats as to hit and damage has reduced the realism factor in the various versions as time has gone on, and has been a mistake the makers of dnd have made.
    Except your wrong limiting atk/damage to strength makes it less realistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #88
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Except your wrong limiting atk/damage to strength makes it less realistic.
    not asking for str to be to hit, dex to hit and str to damage, that forms a realistic picture as str is not just a measure of upper arm str or they would give female toons a -2 like a halfling because in general males have more upper body strength and women need to work much harder to hit the same upper body strength.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Its only that way because the devs coded it the easiest way not because its the way it should be...it didn't matter much when it was first done but now it actually matters so now its a bug that needs to be addressed
    It's only bug in that it bugs you. Regardless of why it's coded like it is or how much it matters. If it's working the way it was designed and intended to work, it's not a bug.

  10. #90
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    It's only bug in that it bugs you. Regardless of why it's coded like it is or how much it matters. If it's working the way it was designed and intended to work, it's not a bug.
    but its not WAI it was just the easiest way to code it at the time and didnt really negative affect anything at the time so no one cared...NOW it matters thus needs to be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #91
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    but its not WAI it was just the easiest way to code it at the time and didnt really negative affect anything at the time so no one cared...NOW it matters thus needs to be fixed.
    If it was planned designed and built around the easiest option it's still wai. Wai means working as intended. You can argue that it's not a good design but not that it's a bug.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Except your wrong limiting atk/damage to strength makes it less realistic.
    So does having fireball spells work. What does realism have to do with it? It's a game, not a simulation.

  13. #93
    The Hatchery Hoglum's Avatar
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    Now that we can use any stat we want for damage we only have justify why.

    The dashing young Purple Knight leveled his deadly gaze upon the young damsel. With his broad shoulders, elongated torso, and stubby legs, the charismatic young warrior’s looks were damaging to his foes.

  14. #94
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So does having fireball spells work. What does realism have to do with it? It's a game, not a simulation.
    Good modern video games have rules set up to make them almost a simulation of combat.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    but its not WAI it was just the easiest way to code it at the time and didnt really negative affect anything at the time so no one cared...NOW it matters thus needs to be fixed.
    It's working exactly as it was designed to work, which is the definition of WAI. If one jumps off a tall building and splats exactly where they intended to land, that's working as intended, no matter how foolish or poor the intention.

  16. #96
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Did you bother to read this link?

    Weapon Type: Handwrap / Bludgeoning Weapons
    4th line down in the description...

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Good modern video games have rules set up to make them almost a simulation of combat.
    Um, yeah, sure. It's more likely that your perception of realistic combat is based on how video games are.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericrd View Post
    the guys gracie were fighting were "real" fighters they didnt know how to deal with a ground game.....

    In other words they didn't know how to fight.

  19. #99
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    So does having fireball spells work. What does realism have to do with it? It's a game, not a simulation.
    Oh to clarify I don't think DnD should be to concerned with realism but Crono is insisting on doing so, so I was countering his realism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    With proper training a person builds dex and str.
    That's like saying studying hard builds paper cuts, so all paper cuts improve one's grades.

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