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  1. #21
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    I may be misremembering something, it's been a while, but didn't you lose all your powers when you decided to change Gods like they were underwear or something?

    Anyway, who are we, mere mortals, to tell Gods what weapons they should or should not favor?

  2. #22
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clatterfist View Post
    Faith doesn't really work like that in Eberron... It's one of the few D&D settings where some of the gods that are worshipped may or may not actually exist, or only exist as an extension of the faith of their followers. You could probably devise a cleric that worshipped a pile of rocks and had a favoured weapon of sling and have legitimate spell access in an Eberron campaign, as long as he really believed in the pile of rocks...
    Waaaaiiiiiittttt aaaahhhh mmmmiiinnnnnuuuuttteee... WHAT!

    I can actually have a lore appropriate cleric that is empowered by her belief in the divinity of her own holy arse?! Woot! Drafting my new bio right now!
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  3. #23
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    I agree that favoured souls probably wouldn't have "transferable" power, as the nature of what they do is extremely ingrained.

    As for insulting one's patron, it depends a lot on the patron. I imagine that a follower of Vulkoor who abandoned Vulkoor would at the very least believe himself to be in the doghouse, and have trouble accessing his abilities: but for a follower of the Sovereign Host, for example, worship of Amaunator is quite possible within the bounds of the cleric's religion. "As the gods, so is the world - as is the world, so are the gods." New world? New gods. This Amaunator chap seems like a legitimate extension of divine truth, why not add him to the roster and pick up a heavy mace and start swinging?

    Then there's the backflow of knowledge through the rift: people are going to hear about Amaunator and other Forgotten Realms deities, and Eberron being Eberron...they'd be perfectly free to adopt them. It'd only be a matter of time before someone hearing stories about Amaunator back in Xen'drik decided that he was "The Prophet of Amaunator" and then he's well on his way to being an Eberron-style, faith-is-truth divine spellcaster, even though Amaunator doesn't technically exist in his world. If he believes him to, it could be enough. So, it's not entirely unreasonable to think that before tooo long, Forgotten Realms religions might develop native Eberron counterparts.

    On the other hand, Forgotten Realms natives are probably stuck with their own gods, because thinking doesn't make it so in the Realms. You can pray to the Lord of Blades all you like, but he ain't there, and he ain't a god by the standard D&D definition of the term. Eberron born characters presumably carry their own metaphysical natures with them, letting them do what they always do when in Toril, but it'd be harder to explain a native Realmer doing the same thing.

  4. #24
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Just want to chime in that I agree entirely with the OP.

    My favored weapon is the greataxe.

    Problem is, my half-elf cleric's 'favored' weapon was longswords. That's what she would have gotten bonuses in.

    I split the difference and re-specced her into a TWF scimitar build (Undying Court to the rescue), but really? At least give us a choice of picking an individual deity out of the Sovereign Host, give us the Dark Six too since we've already got PCs 'beholden' to an evil deity (the Lord of Blades), and touch on the deities of other races that aren't Elves of some sort or Warforged.
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  5. #25
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorianna View Post
    So mote it be! Rejoice, followers, for now you have more deities to choose from! In addition to the Sovereign Host and Silver Flame, adventurers may choose to follow one of the other gods instead:

    Azmagor the Rumbler, patron lord of the Half-Orcs. Favored weapon: Quarterstaff
    Shneikae the Silent, patron goddess of the elusive Halflings. Favored weapon: Dagger
    Myradane, Forgemaster of the Dwarves. Favored weapon: Battleaxe (or dwarven axe)

    That good?
    You made that up!

    But I can totally see some multiclass builds that would arise from those particular choices~ +1

  6. #26
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worldcrafter View Post
    Aha. I had not known about that nature of Eberron; I concede to that point, Clatterfist, and +1 rep for enlightening me of that. Still, given the nature of the class, wouldn't favored souls still function exclusively on a deific source reaching out and touching them? Most paladins too, I imagine. And wouldn't it stand to reason that angering or insulting one's patron does usually mean going without their blessings?
    Eberron is all about grey areas. This is why you can have a Lawful Evil follower of the Silver Flame. He is not explicity granted powers by a diety. He is a divine spellcaster by virtue of his conviction and his faith. He absolutely believes in the message of the Flame. He will just do completely awful, evil things to enforce that message. In his mind, he's Lawful Good. His actions are Lawful Evil. He doesn't lose connection with his diety over it, because, just like in real life, morality is full of grey areas and the existence of dieties is uncertain.

    However, I think that expanding the favored weapon selection all willy nilly would be pointless tearing at the lore, especially when we don't even have access to the full pantheon of Sovereign Host weapons. those are the weapons favored by those that follow that diety; Jim Bob the Paladin may be swinging a greataxe, but most of the rest of the followers of Dol Dorn are using longswords.

    Personally, I think that in the hands of the chosen of Dol Dorn, a longsword should be as good as a khopesh. or a follow of the Silver Flame should be almost damaging as a ranger with a bow. I mean, it's their favored weapon. That should actually mean something.
    Last edited by Fefnir_2011; 09-26-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Personally, I think that in the hands of the chosen of Dol Dorn, a longsword should be as good as a khopesh. or a follow of the Silver Flame should be almost damaging as a ranger with a bow. I mean, it's their favored weapon. That should actually mean something.
    Yes to this, or something like it. How about +1 to the critical multiplier of your faiths' favored weapon as a fifth-tier ability in the warpriest tree? +1 to crit threat range would be nice, too. Anything that could convince my FvS or Cleric not to take a feat or fighter level in order to get proficiency with a martial twohander. Under the current setup, the martial two-hander is the way to go unless you are an elf or drow.

  8. #28
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    I would be satisfied if they just expanded the Host and the Dark Six as options. The wiki have a list of their favored weapons, if you want to know what they are. No, no god favors khopeshes.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Waaaaiiiiiittttt aaaahhhh mmmmiiinnnnnuuuuttteee... WHAT!

    I can actually have a lore appropriate cleric that is empowered by her belief in the divinity of her own holy arse?! Woot! Drafting my new bio right now!
    It is not an Eberron thing. It is a 3e thing (Philosophical clerics). And since Eberron was the only new WotC setting released during the 3e era...
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  9. #29
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Eberron is all about grey areas. This is why you can have a Lawful Evil follower of the Silver Flame. He is not explicity granted powers by a diety. He is a divine spellcaster by virtue of his conviction and his faith. He absolutely believes in the message of the Flame. He will just do completely awful, evil things to enforce that message. In his mind, he's Lawful Good. His actions are Lawful Evil. He doesn't lose connection with his diety over it, because, just like in real life, morality is full of grey areas and the existence of dieties is uncertain.
    No, he knows he is Lawful Evil, if for any reason they wanted to check his alignment. The difference is that "evil" on Eberron means a lot more stuff than you maniqueist D&D Evil with capital E.

    In the words of Keith Baker:

    One evil priest of the Silver Flame may be a hypocrite and liar who is secretly allied with the Lords of Dust or abusing the faith of his followers for personal gain. However, another may be deeply devoted to the faith and willing to lay down his life to protect the innocent from supernatural evil – but he is also willing to regularly engage in ruthless and cruel acts to achieve this. The classic inquisitor falls into this mold. He truly is trying to do what’s best, and in a world where demonic possession is real his harsh methods may be your only hope. But he will torture you for your own good, and feel no sympathy for your pain. This makes him “evil” – yet compared to the first priest, he is truly devout and serving the interests of the church.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

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  11. #31
    Community Member Deamus's Avatar
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    /Signed OP . Enough with the lore excuses . Turbine changed this game so much lore excuses are a sad joke.

    Fix the weapon choices asap. Make divine melees useful . Do not kill anymore the clerics with really bad design aka war priest.

    I would like to see Dwarves have favored weapon Dwarves Axes and Great Axes, and warhammers and mauls.

    Horcs two handed swords.

    Halfings throwing weapons .

    And also versatility to choose your own god without racial restrictions .

    As i said enough is enough .
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  12. #32
    Community Member Deamus's Avatar
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    Also I'm referring to those who argue against OP with sad lore excuses.

    Do you realy want a worthless Cleric/FVS with really bad weapons in your party for the sake of silly lore excuses ?

    Is the Warpriest so OP that more weapon choices will make it overpowering and break the balance ?

    Warpriest atm is a sad joke also , it only provide flavor and its dps is abysmal compared to other melee classes .
    Warpriest should have 15%-20% less dps than other melee classes not 80%+ less dps....
    Where is wisdom to hit and damage btw ?????
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  13. #33
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Clerics didn't had to worship a god in D&D.
    They shouldn't be forced to do so in DDO.
    You could just say you worship a filosophy or idea, and pick favored weapons and domains as you please.

  14. #34
    Community Member Lauf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Okay seriously "favored weapon" mechanics are fine, as long as there's at least some CHOICE involved. The problem is there is ZERO choice involved.

    It's either you're Race X and you get X, or you're not one of those races and you get Longsword or Longbow. Or your character is ostensibly from the forgotten realms and you get Heavy mace. That's is... pathetic and underwleming and kinda amateurish feeling.

    And beyond even that lameness, is Morninglords who are proficient in Morningstars AND Maces, YET ONLY GET HEAVY MACE as a favored weapon.

    Meanwhile WF at least get a good weapon. While Dwarves are left completely out in the cold (No Axes picks or Hammers offered as favored weapons)...

    Please make all favored weapons a small selection 2 or 3 per Deity, and then make all of them choosable by all races. As has been noted many times Eberron has plenty of "grey area" with non race based Deities and even some races choosing to follow Deities that might primarily be Drow or Elven in nature..

    For one thing lets get rid of this idea that grown up can't choose whatever deity they wish, or change their mind at some point, if I go to the Forgotten realms and get converted to Amuanator how is that any different than real life? Or if my PDK Bard goes to Eberron and decides to follow the Sovereign Host (and get some Long sword Synergy)...

    Next make at least a couple new Faiths, a Dwarven one, for starters, and a Halfing Barbarian one (think Dino riding ones can't recall what their deities were). Eberron and FR themed but get rid of the division between the settings faiths... Let players determine the fiction of their characters... It's not your Job to force my characters to follow a deity of a world setting that character is native to.

    If I want my Bladeforged FvS "Ironicarus" a light based Melee soul to follow Amuanator because she's "seen the light" when she spent extensive time battling evil Drow in the underdark... that's MY CALL, not yours Turbine.

    Next, add a LITTLE variety and flexibility to existing faiths, Short Sword AND Kurkri, Longsword AND Bastard Sword, Greatsword AND Falchion. Heavy Mace becomes ANY Mace and Morningstars.

    Make a Duergar Iconic Warpriest and give Picks and Hammers (a Duergar or Dwarven Deity from FR).

    Make a Foresty Deity that gives any light weapon as favored.

    Make a God of War deity that favors heavy blades (as in the same ones as Kensei heavy blades)

    How about a Monkish Deity that favors unarmed/Staff.

    How about a more traditional Cleric deity that gives: Staff, Hammers, Maces, and throwing hammers.

    I can't believe it would take one guy more than a couple hours to take the existing faiths and add four or five to them and expand the weapon selection a minimal amount.
    QFT!!

    I would also add it's ridiculous that the iconic Morninglord cleric gets racial bonus to mauls, YET ONLY GET HEAVY MACE as a favored weapon.
    are mauls a part of their morninglordness, or not?

    either way, confining races to a predetermined faith sucks. please change it.

  15. #35
    Community Member Kalevor's Avatar
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    I want to smash my enemies with the Hammer of Moradin!!! I dislike human sword... real drwarft don't use it.
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  16. #36
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    lack of deity weapon- this is one of main reason why war priest suck..

  17. #37
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    lack of deity weapon- this is one of main reason why war priest suck..
    What? It has enhancements to your chosen Diety's weapon. The Morninglord Iconic gets the Heavy Mace, my FvS gets short swords. There's a whole line that gives bonuses to the weapon you chose. So in a thread that says we don't have enough choices, you want even less choices?

  18. #38
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    No, he knows he is Lawful Evil, if for any reason they wanted to check his alignment. The difference is that "evil" on Eberron means a lot more stuff than you maniqueist D&D Evil with capital E.
    I meant more that he doesn't think of himself as evil, just like your quote says. It's very rare that anyone actually thinks of themselves as a truly despicable person with no redeemable qualities who makes the world worse by just existing. In Eberron, dragons are not color coded for your convenience, and neither are the people.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    ^This.^

    Deitys, both from fantasy and RL religions are kinda notorious for being picky about both who their followers are and under what circumstances they receive blessings.
    You seem to not be familiar with Eberron "lore"* despite citing it as a reason to not have more Deity choices.

    I'm not sure why you want only Long Sword or Long Bow or "Race" but if you're going to use "lore" please actually be familiar with it before using it as a justification for a strange desire...

    * in Eberron lore it's not unusual for multiple races to follow a faith DDO currently has it wrong when it comes to lore.

    Now if you want one one weapon choice per Diety for some self denial reason or another, then fine, just add all the missing FR deities and Eberron faiths. And give them 1 weapon per. My proposal is meant to make it a little simpler to add choices. Not just to "cater to what I want" (though I do want choices and D&D has that in Domains so another area where DDO's lore is incomplete/unfinished) but to not be amateurishly unpolished and unfinished. And restrictive by virtue of not being anywhere close to finished. ONE FR deity is ridiculous. I would have the same problem if the game only had Cross bows, and Khopeshes and no other D&D weapons implemented... Or only 1 spell per level with no 8th or 9th level spells... Unfinished and unpolished sucks.
    Last edited by IronClan; 09-27-2013 at 05:19 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  20. #40
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    The choices don't bother me much. If you want great dps then go warforged. You get your bonuses and take a healing penalty. Elves/drow end up with nice 2wf options and humans can make for pretty damn good tanks that still do decent damage.

    Dwarves are godless creatures. I don't even like to party with them.

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