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  1. #1
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Default Offensive Casting and how Favored Souls get the short end of the stick

    So, I just got back to the game after a bit of an absence, and there are a LOT more offensive SLAs available to casting classes, really helping them get the most out of a pool of spell points. This is great. For arcanes, it allows them to nuke at full potential without having to dump almost 100 SP on a single spell, also indirectly allowing them more SP for crowd control and instakill. For divines, the same thing applies in a sense, only add heals to the mix.

    I mean, here's what you have in the realm of possible SLAs per class.

    Wizard
    • Too many to list with Archmage, but the Magic Missile/Chain Missile SLAs are obscenely good
    • Necrotic Touch (Pale Master, Tier 1, no metas, touch, cost 2 HP)
    • Necrotic Bolt (Pale Master, Tier 3, no metas, cost 5 HP)
    • Necrotic Blast (Pale Master, Tier 5, no metas, AOE blast radius, cost 10 HP)


    Sorcerer
    • (Note: It is impossible for a Sorcerer to get more than five of any of these SLAs at one time, these are just all of the options)
    • Shocking Touch (Air Savant, Tier 1, touch, metas as the spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Electric Loop (Air Savant, Tier 4, metas as the spell, cost 8/6/4 SP)
    • Lightning Bolt (Air Savant, Tier 5, metas as the spell, cost 12/8/6 SP)
    • Acid Spray (Earth Savant, Tier 1, metas as the spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Acid Arrow (Earth Savant, Tier 4, metas as the spell, ray spell, cost 8/6/4 SP)
    • Acid Blast (Earth Savant, Tier 5, metas as the spell, AOE blast, cost 12/8/6 SP)
    • Burning Hands (Fire Savant, Tier 1, metas as the spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Scorch (Fire Savant, Tier 4, metas as the spell, cost 8/6/4 SP)
    • Fireball (Fire Savant, Tier 5, metas as the spell, AOE blast, cost 12/8/6 SP)
    • Niac's Cold Ray (Water Savant, Tier 1, metas as the spell, ray spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Snowball Swarm (Water Savant, Tier 4, metas as the spell, AOE 'blast', cost 8/6/4 SP)
    • Frost Lance (Water Savant, Tier 5, metas as the spell, ray spell, cost 12/8/6 SP)


    Druid
    • (A single Druid can take all of these with enough investment in Season's Herald)
    • Storm of Vengeance (Season's Herald, Core (Min level 18, 30 AP spent), metas as the spell, cost 20 SP)
    • Produce Flame (Season's Herald, Tier 2, metas as the spell, cost 6/5/3 SP)
    • Creeping Cold (Season's Herald, Tier 3, metas as the spell, DoT, cost 6/5/3 SP)
    • Call Lightning (Season's Herald, Tier 4, metas as the spell, cost 10/8/6 SP)
    • Word of Balance (Season's Herald, Tier 5, metas as the spell, cost 10/8/6 SP)


    Cleric
    • (Clerics are limited by their choice of Divine Disciple core enhancement to either Light or Dark SLAs listed here)
    • Chill Touch (Divine Disciple (Dark), Tier 1, presumably metas as the spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Nimbus of Light (Divine Disciple (Light), Tier 1, see above, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Necrotic Bolt (Divine Disciple (Dark), Tier 3, meta capability not known by me, cost 12/9/6 SP)
    • Searing Light (Divine Disciple (Light), Tier 3, presumably metas as the spell, cost 12/9/6 SP)
    • Negative Energy Burst (Divine Disciple (Dark), Tier 4, presumably metas as the spell, cost 13/10/7 SP)
    • Holy Smite (Divine Disciple (Light), Tier 4, presumably metas as the spell, cost 13/10/7 SP)
    • Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass (Divine Disciple (Dark), Tier 5, presumably metas as the spell, cost 15/12/10 SP)
    • Flame Strike (Divine Disciple (Light), Tier 5, presumably metas as the spell, cost 30/25/20 SP)


    Let's throw Artificers in the mix, too, since they also get the following:
    • Static Shock (Arcanotechnician, Tier 1, presumably metas as the spell, cost 4/3/2 SP)
    • Lightning Sphere (Arcanotechnician, Tier 3, presumably metas as the spell, cost 8/6/4 SP)
    • Blast Rod (Arcanotechnician, Tier 4, presumably metas as the spell, cost 12/8/6 SP)
    • Lightning Motes (Arcanotechnician, Tier 5, presumably metas as the spell, cost 12/8/6 SP)


    Now, we get to my favorite class, the quintessential Divine nuker before the bugs were even thought of being hammered out of a still in-development Druid and before most of these other SLAs even existed... Favored Soul.
    • ...
    • ...
    • No spell-like abilities possible other than the old Capstones (now in Angel of Vengeance), requires Level 20, only get one based on faith


    ...Are you kidding me?

    Wizards, Sorcs, Druids, Clerics and even Artificers get all these cool, cheap and very effective tools, some of which are worth diluting caster levels to splash and get (namely the Archmage Evocation SLAs), but Favored Souls don't get squat?

    Worst yet, supposedly the final FvS class tree is supposed to be the healing tree. We already have a melee tree in Warpriest, and we have our "caster" tree in Angel of Vengeance.

    But it doesn't have ANY spell-like abilities for us to spam?

    Seriously, what is this? Devs, could you possibly please look at adding some offensive SLAs to Favored Souls for the next update? You took away the only non-Capstone SLAs with the removal of the Protection tree. As it stands, they're now probably the worst class to keep pure from a divine nuking standpoint. Clerics have their toys, and Druids can be godmode in the right hands. Favored Souls are better off now splashing Wizard for offensive casting, or staying out of that game entirely.
    Last edited by TDarkchylde; 09-26-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Exclamation Protection’s **** Poor Passing

    I did everything I could to save Protection. Thank the ignorant masses for its loss.

  3. #3
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Angry I mourn Protection's loss too.

    Quote Originally Posted by BFD20001 View Post
    I did everything I could to save Protection. Thank the ignorant masses for its loss.
    Well, Protection wasn't necessarily The Answer to the problem, but you were right that Warpriest shouldn't be a Favored Soul tree in the first place.

    They could have easily given Clerics Warpriest and kept Protection for FvS while they work on the "proper" melee FvS tree.

    The problem is the Favored Soul "caster" tree having NO SLAs, where all of the other divine "casting" trees (and even the Arti casting tree, for crying out loud) have them.
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  4. #4
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    FvS get the single best SLA in the game: you cast it ONCE, and it keeps doing damage (and procs, and charges, etc.) over and over for FIVE MINUTES!

  5. #5
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Favored souls get the shoulder cannon SLA. No targeting needed, continues to hurt your enemies even while you are afk.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDarkchylde View Post
    For arcanes, it allows them to nuke at full potential without having to dump almost 100 SP on a single spell, also indirectly allowing them more SP for crowd control and instakill. For divines, the same thing applies in a sense, only add heals to the mix.
    You can hardly call using SLAs for damage 'full potential'. Chain Missile spamming Shiradi asside, this just is not even close. The Wizard SLAs granted from the trees, not the ones granted by Evocation Archmage, are pretty terrible. They have low DCs, and very poor scaling. Similarly, almost all of the SLAs provided are amazing at low levels, and generally not worth using by the time you get to high levels. The lack of cheap SLAs is not what hinders FvS casters.

    The lack of expanded spell choices is. Without access to Light Bolt and Light Beam, which Clerics get from the Divine Disciple Tree, they simply can not keep pace any longer. The versatility offered by my Evoker FvS always made her one of my favorite characters. Now I have a fresh 20 Cleric with barely any Epic Destiny work done who absolutely blows her away. I just can't find any reason to play my favorite character any longer, when other classes got such amazing buffs that they have left Favored Soul at the starting line while they clear the marathon!

    Sadly, the only way to make an offensive caster Favored Soul that is not gimping themselves now is to take 2 levels, for Scourge and Just Reward, and then go 14-16 levels in Wizard.....

  7. #7
    Community Member TDarkchylde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Favored souls get the shoulder cannon SLA. No targeting needed, continues to hurt your enemies even while you are afk.
    It's also entirely undismissable (there are times especially as a Divine where you need to stop your DPS) and the damage and rate of fire is pitifully low compared to other SLA-possessing casters. Plus it doesn't fire at foes that are undamaged, a limitation a Shiradi wiz spamming Chain Missiles does not possess. You either have to blow more SP on some form of initial nuke (yes, un-meta'd Nimbus of Light is cheap and perfect for this, that is not the point) or go in on melee and give the mob a love tap, praying you hit. (Even with the changes to epic mobs, a caster with 18 strength and no melee feats at all swinging their Potency sticks still has a hard time accomplishing this unscathed.)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    You can hardly call using SLAs for damage 'full potential'. Chain Missile spamming Shiradi asside, this just is not even close. The Wizard SLAs granted from the trees, not the ones granted by Evocation Archmage, are pretty terrible. They have low DCs, and very poor scaling. Similarly, almost all of the SLAs provided are amazing at low levels, and generally not worth using by the time you get to high levels. The lack of cheap SLAs is not what hinders FvS casters.

    The lack of expanded spell choices is. Without access to Light Bolt and Light Beam, which Clerics get from the Divine Disciple Tree, they simply can not keep pace any longer. The versatility offered by my Evoker FvS always made her one of my favorite characters. Now I have a fresh 20 Cleric with barely any Epic Destiny work done who absolutely blows her away. I just can't find any reason to play my favorite character any longer, when other classes got such amazing buffs that they have left Favored Soul at the starting line while they clear the marathon!

    Sadly, the only way to make an offensive caster Favored Soul that is not gimping themselves now is to take 2 levels, for Scourge and Just Reward, and then go 14-16 levels in Wizard.....
    ...Tell that to my Shiradi Druid who can get hits of 1k+ without extra procs with the Call Lightning SLA with very poor gear (she was LR 20'd from a different class/build that got completely gimped by the enhancement pass) for single-digit SP, and has three other spammable SLAs to keep the pressure on while Call Lightning cools down. Not to mention longer-cooldown AOE SLAs in the form of Sunburst and Storm of Vengeance that have multiple chances for procs. Full potential should be things like instakilling the toughest, unnukable mobs and locking down the ones that can't be instakilled (and nuking when all else fails), not "spam things for ungodly massive damage at a pace even a Barb can't keep up with until it falls, before it can get a hit in." But this is the game in which we now play.

    As for the Wiz SLAs, Arcane Blast and Necrotic Blast are not as useless in practice as one may think. Cheap AOE, even with low DCs, is still useful.

    Expanded spell choice would be awesome (the Blur and Haste that come with Warpriest are way more useful for melee-specced Souls), but even then, these "expanded spells" would be under the same rules that a Favored Soul's Blade Barrier, Cometfall and Searing Light are already bound by - that being that for max DPS, you'd better be ready to take a nice chunk out of your bluebar. It still doesn't make up for a Maximized, Empowered, Quickened and Enlarged Chain Missile for as much as an old Level 1 spell cost on its own, unmeta'd, before the spell point pass.

    And yeah, while I should be thrilled that for casters, a 2 FvS splash is almost as powerful as a 2 Monk, Paladin or Rogue splash, it's still not right that they are now only effective as casters as a 2-level splash for a completely different casting class.
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  8. #8
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    Exclamation fix of Angel of Vengance tree

    No answer from devs ? 0_o Seriously Turbine f*cked up AoV tree. FVS are supposed to be a nuker but we ended being a outdated sub-caster without any new offensive abilities.

    Devs should replace terrible Vengeful Magic core with a SLA like Sunbeam or Sunbolt etc.

    Tier2 - Inquisition enhancement could be replaced with AoE SLA (Sunburst,Flamestrike,Holysmite?)

    Those little changes could bring Fvs Aov back to the caster family , because now we are redheaded orphants.
    Waiting for devs response.
    Last edited by Udalric; 09-29-2013 at 08:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default I just lvl'd my TR Evoker to 20 and he sucks

    Just got my TR'd (past life cleric) Evoker build to 20 and started playing epics. I did ok healing the group but nothing I threw at drow, giants or other EE/EH mobs made them blink. Against undead of course I was cleaning up. However there is barely any epic quest with a ton of undead. So now I have this non melee non healing spec evoker build just stewing. I have all this lovely epic gear from past life which is also kinda useless now. I'm thinking this life is a wash and TR again into a Sorc or Wiz but I already have 2 other toons that are sorc/wiz's and I just TR'd the both of them. Maybe give druid a try?

    What to do.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinobiShaw View Post

    What to do.
    You could combine all your characters into a single 4/4/12 fvs/mage/sorc triple fire crit spec, twisting a 50% crit rate fire energy burst, EmpH cocoon, and huge crit rate boulder toss into shiradi. If you use a twilight and get the fvs tier 4 enhancements you can buff your sorc/wiz caster levels to a decent level to get a good chain missile and MM SLA. You will basically get your choice of MM, CM, FM, fireball, MM SLA, and Fire SLA's to use, all of which are efficient and basically free in this build, which you were concerned about. You can get fire/fire crit from a sages spectacles, force crit from sages gauntlets, and just rock on endlessly.

    You will consistently get silly high energy burst #'s, since you get caster levels from cleric, twilight, and sorc, and fire crit from all three classes, increased by nerve venom.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 10-03-2013 at 03:30 AM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDarkchylde View Post
    I
    As for the Wiz SLAs, Arcane Blast and Necrotic Blast are not as useless in practice as one may think. Cheap AOE, even with low DCs, is still useful.
    Necrotic blast is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. I had it, and it was a waste of APs. His cooldown is looooooong, the damage is loooow. If the cooldown was short, the spelllike could have a utility. But not! It’s useless! The necro spell-likes cost 9 APs and don’t heal the skeleton.

    No, don’t worth. I have spent these APs in other things…
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

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