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  1. #1
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Default New content, end reward changes question

    Why the change to the named end reward turn in items? I see nothing in this regard in the release notes.

    For example, you used to be able to get a piece of the Skirmisher's set, that was ML 26 or 27, I believe. Now it's ML 19, and it's not quite as good as the epic stuff.

    And if this is WAI, how do you go about getting the epic versions?

    This change did affect the items I already have stored in my bank.

    Thanks.
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  2. #2
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    Why the change to the named end reward turn in items? I see nothing in this regard in the release notes.

    For example, you used to be able to get a piece of the Skirmisher's set, that was ML 26 or 27, I believe. Now it's ML 19, and it's not quite as good as the epic stuff.

    And if this is WAI, how do you go about getting the epic versions?

    This change didn't affect the items I already have stored in my bank.

    Thanks.
    I couldn't edit my post and fixed a typo in this quote.
    The Fockers of Argo
    Fuglymofo; LOOON; Hobaggin; Fuglyrobo; Buttscracher; Whoaa

  3. #3

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    With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!

  4. #4
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!
    Cool. Thanks for the quick response, Feather.
    The Fockers of Argo
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  5. #5
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Hopefully this is fixed sooner rather than later, as it really detracts from what little reason there was to run those quests in the first place.

  6. #6
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    Hopefully this is fixed sooner rather than later, as it really detracts from what little reason there was to run those quests in the first place.
    The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.
    Please oh pretty please just make sure nothing else breaks. Lets work on fixing all the compounding problems before you guys create new ways of breaking stuff. Like this raid counter - bad idea. Not tested enough and even after trying to fix it twice it's still broken. Secret doors; as far as I can tell in shadow army is still borked.

    Now my bow is kaput and every time you guys end up creating something new, you get ripple effects through the entire system. I dig some of the new ideas but I wish you guys listened more to us about the consequences. I mean - here I am willing to pay you guys for entertaining me, but every time I log in after an update and patch now a days I find another shard for profit idea, devaluing of the shardAH and more broken stuff.

    This worries me, because yesterday I felt so burnt out by the problems, empty lfm and the pointless destiny grind that I started playing something else. And it feels like I keep testing the value of the many years I've played this game against the value of doing something else.

    Maj used to write that he was really mad about all the issues and reoccurring problems after MOTU. That was a while back and little has changed since. The new reporting system is borked - which was a large reason why you changed to this forum format. Age old problems are still there and new ones are adding up.

    So I don't mind more patches, but it feels like we're walking sideways here and sometime backwards. I don't doubt Turbines desire to fix things and make us all enthusiastic and all, but sometimes I think you guys need to stop and listen. Like you did with EGH. It's in your best interest to keep the wheels spinning and us here and in our interest to foresee a future for DDO. But I gotta tell you. We're not in happy days are here territory.

  8. #8
    Community Member debo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!
    Wow truly makes the following statement of 1 step forward 2 steps back completely true.
    Why is stuff like this not tested? I have heard in the past it said that it was fixed on your local pc's/games and the break happens again on live, but since that hasn't worked for years, why is another system not worked out?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.
    Oh, sweet!

    The fix to challenge kobolds not smelling teleporters/ddoor was said to have already been fixed internally. Does that mean it's already included in whatever the next patch will be?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!
    thank you very much for your explantion, the release of details helps us (the player base) put it in context

    some of us realize that nothing is as easy as it seems with limited resources and multiple projects

    hopefully details(when possible) will continue be diseminated when things like this occur

    while nothing can sooth some people.....a majority are more realalistic....when you give us a chance

  11. #11
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    Since FoS moved over from treasure to PRE design our top end choices seem to have suffered a bit. Any chance the new treasure dev is taking requests from the forum crowd on updates?

    L28 mabar item upgrades?

    Now that Eveningstar challenge ingreds are recosted and BTA ingredients, a few more upgradable named items from those traders (up to L28) plus some better constraints on the "randomish Cormyrian items" those vendors reward. Or maybe make it so the vendor produces 3-5 "random L28 Cormyrian items" and you select one for your trade in.

    L28 upgrades on ToD rings/equipment while you redo that item setup to match the redone enhancement setup? Might as well make an epic adventure pack in the Demons side of Amrath to do the upgrading... while you're at it. The demongod <INSERT EVIL NAME> has seen the portal connection between FR and EB and is doing diabolical things with it. Stop him and upgrade PRE-specific rings/equipment sets. That kind of thing.

    Also 3 words: Epic Shroud Crafting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.
    Could you just tell us what loot level +4 unbound non upgrade tomes drop at now so we know if they are worth running for heroic end rewards? Is it level 31?

  13. #13
    Hero Silken-Akira's Avatar
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    Personally, I like to thanks for the transparent replies we got.
    And also want to state that at this stage there is no proper balance anymore for them to do really good.
    this user community all wants something different( the new vs the longterm, the hardcore vs the casual, etc). The whole game is also a lot more expanded than it was in the beginning and so more complex.
    But we users want innovation and we want it fast. So can they do thorough testing... off course. are we willing to wait that long...Hell no.

    So getting transparent insight and giving back useful suggestions in a positive way is the best we can expect from the and ourself.

    Let us first proof we can do better then just moan about every single thing.

  14. #14
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.
    Thank you very much for the swift and concise response :-)

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience! And when complete, will be applied to other quest chains that have both Heroic and Epic settings.
    FTFY. Because, you’re good at your job. Right? Right?
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  16. #16
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    With Update 19, we released some new technology in the quest system that allowed us to set the questgiver up in a way where they knew if you had completed the quest on Heroic or Epic, and provide rewards accordingly. Unfortunately, as an unforeseen side-effect, it caused issues with raid completion tracking.
    All of that code has since been reverted to fix the raid issues, so Wheloon and Storm Horns questgivers can no longer provide their Epic reward list.

    This is being worked on by a quest system engineer, and will be corrected in a future patch. Sorry for the inconvenience!
    How about in each end chest give a widget of some sort. Add an NPC that allows you to trade this widget for one of the static items? You could have one NPC with a barter box big enough for all the static items and various widgets for trade in. I can't help but feel that tinkering with end reward lists and tracking epic/non epic just isn't the simplest way to do what you need to do here. This solution also allows people that don't care for the static items a chance at a full reward list instead of just 3 or 4 items and what ends up being 3 pieces of static trash after the first run or two.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  17. #17
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    Could you just tell us what loot level +4 unbound non upgrade tomes drop at now so we know if they are worth running for heroic end rewards? Is it level 31?
    +1 for asking it straight up. Players want to know what's going on here.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  18. #18
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The current goal is to correct this in the next patch (the same one I mentioned yesterday in regards to some potential Mabar changes.) We hope to have more information about the "when" of the next patch soon.
    Make each quest drop btc barter item, separate for each quest, which can't be passed in chest to anyone (like guild XP), or is automatically given to inventory (like phylactery after wiz king), but can instead be bartered with an NPC for an epic item that was previously found in quest reward, or a random item, or guild XP (to emulate quest completion).

    Here, a quick way to mitigate bug, until a proper solution is implemented.

  19. #19
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo View Post
    and the break happens again on live, but since that hasn't worked for years, why is another system not worked out?
    Because they have stubbornly failed to embrace a closed loop, measurable, continually improving, documentation system. Or, if they HAVE implemented such, they are not following it. Or, if they ARE following it, their dev turnover is so high that the system can't keep up. Or, some decision maker up the chain has deprioritized quality control.

    Whatever the specific cause, it boils down to a lack of dedication to quality. There DO exist software developers that DO NOT suffer these kinds of continually recurring issues. And that's because they know they need to funnel an appropriate level of their incoming $$ into closing those holes. If Turbine thinks that they can get by by doing only what they have been doing, then this situation won't change. Only by accepting the fact that they MUST put $/people/systems/resources into this will they ever have any hope of improving.

  20. #20
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Because they have stubbornly failed to embrace a closed loop, measurable, continually improving, documentation system. Or, if they HAVE implemented such, they are not following it. Or, if they ARE following it, their dev turnover is so high that the system can't keep up. Or, some decision maker up the chain has deprioritized quality control.

    Whatever the specific cause, it boils down to a lack of dedication to quality. There DO exist software developers that DO NOT suffer these kinds of continually recurring issues. And that's because they know they need to funnel an appropriate level of their incoming $$ into closing those holes. If Turbine thinks that they can get by by doing only what they have been doing, then this situation won't change. Only by accepting the fact that they MUST put $/people/systems/resources into this will they ever have any hope of improving.
    It's probably not Turbine's decision to make. It's WB.

    WB realizes this is a niche game with a declining population, and as such, they aren't going to funnel more resources than are necessary for the bare necessities; that is, update development. It is not in WB's interest if content has bugs or not, they probably couldn't care less. What they want is for Turbine to rush out as many Adventure Packs/Expansions as they can to make as much money as possible before the game's inevitable death.

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