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  1. #41
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?







    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    They are likely using no save, direct damage abilities (light SLA's Boulder Toss, Comets, etc). Command/Greater Command is unreliable, but can land occasionaly for invested multi tr's. High AC/PRR potential allows decent damage mitigation. Kiting, when necessary is done well by the divine. I personally love having aggro, and my dps hounds taking a relaxed approach and coordinating taking down that aggro without much danger of going *poof*.

    Your bread and butter Destruction/Implosion/Slay Living remain unreliable due to whale saves. So yeah, dc casting is in a lot of trouble. And just like their counterpart on the arcane side, have to resort to creative setups for no save effects and direct damage.

    Light Attack builds pretty much thrive on this. But as it's been for this divine player - getting the necessary dc/spell pen to make casting dc based spells a viable choice is very difficult. Impossible imo without building divines like wizzies. 3/3/3 relevant casting lives and completionist.

    Having said that, my argument in the dc casting world is that the bar is moved too far the wrong direction. Current implementation limits the dc divine or arcane to a point where it isn't worthwhile to use and remain supportive to the party on either side.
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  2. #42
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    I know this is about EE's but in any content I sometimes run with divines, and when I take damage I will hit myself for a heal, scroll, spell or cocoon then at the same time they heal me, or just after, its a bit of a waste should I say hey man im good no need to worry about me?......but on EE it would be funny if I said that they stopped and I got knocked down or lagged a bit and died. I do often say I can take care of my own healing but appreciate a spot if you see me in trouble. I will immediately self heal when I feel the need even if I suspect one might be incoming from someone else, which is pretty wasteful but you never know *this* time it might not be inbound in time. i really don't want to have a toon thats going to be at low health sitting there feeling helpless wondering when the jheals going to arrive.

    But even after stating I can take care of most of my own healing I still often get heals coming in, even when im running around at full health. I think some just cycle through and pass out healing especially now as I got a fighter icon on one toon I noticed that a lot.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 09-26-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  3. #43
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Why do people on these forums ask about EE. Nobody plays EE in game. It just shows you how out of step the forums are from in game. Merge the servers please.
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  4. #44
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Our guild still runs EE daily. Others that run with us do as well. But really, I don't think the majority of players have ever run EE...
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  5. #45
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurean430 View Post
    Our guild still runs EE daily. Others that run with us do as well. But really, I don't think the majority of players have ever run EE...
    Large numbers of people run it once for favor or for a sense of accomplishment, then go back to grinding EH because it offers more than three times the character advancement per minute for most groups.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  6. #46
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    Hello.

    Im the OP

    Thank you all for the replies.

    Some interesting points raised including DC casting - my own Cleric would have no chance in landing DC spells in EE even if be could break SR. I wonder how many multi PL Divines there are that can effectively DC cast in EE.

    EEs not being run - there are often some EE lfms up on G-Land.
    I tend to run EE every other time I log on.

    A Divine in the group allows the rest of the group to go full throttle on there primary roles - I like to think that the people I run with put that amount of trust in me. As I dont PuG EE on my Cleric I tend to run with the same people so I know the way they play and they know me which is a huge plus.

    The general consensus is that a healing type is welcome as long as they dont just heal.

    From my own EE experience, trying to do that "extra" is often quite difficult because Im busy healing and DoTing.

    I guess that as long as you successfully carry out the primary role that is expected of you then all is well.
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  7. #47
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why do people on these forums ask about EE. Nobody plays EE in game. It just shows you how out of step the forums are from in game. Merge the servers please.
    I returned to game after they released warpriest, and I'm playing with my guild every night.
    We never done any quest below EE.

    But we prefer to 4 or even 3 man it, than to pug, so you won't see us playing.
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  8. #48
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why do people on these forums ask about EE. Nobody plays EE in game. It just shows you how out of step the forums are from in game. Merge the servers please.
    It's hard to get a PuG for EE. But with friends or guildies we generally run EE unless too many are trying to level off-destinies and want the quick xp/minute.

  9. #49
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    This is an interesting thread:

    First, it touches on something I've definitely seen in the game while playing divines. Quest difficulty (relative to the group) falls along a spectrum that ranges from "A healer isn't needed" to "Even a good healer won't save them". In between, there is a band where a good healer can make the difference between success and failure.

    But in EE, it's a very very small band compared to the overall range.

    I see this when playing with guildmates. I play divines a lot, and it has gotten pretty easy to know where my contribution is going to be all in the form of additional casting power or melee power (depending on the build), with at most few heals here and there that are honestly more courtesy more than anything else. Likewise, it has also gotten easier to tell when they are in way over their heads, and even nonstop pot-quaffing whack-a-mole healing won't be enough. The thing is, the number of situations that are "in between" -- where I make a meaningful offensive contribution, but where they still need some healing from me, is very small. It's rare, in fact.

    Part of it is how Turbine has chosen to make the toughest quests tough -- by piling on the HP and damage. Damage-doing spells like DP, BB, SLA's, etc. are all but meaningless (except for perhaps a long, long string of DPs, but there's only the spell points to do that on a few mobs), and DC-based spells are... well, we all know the situation there for 99.5% of the playing population.

    On a similar note, melees can either handle EE or they can't. The few (but impressive) players that have invested in enough PRR/dodge/concealment/saves enough to have good damage mitigation, plus enough healing amp and self-healing, in all likelihood can handle even EE without you. Those who haven't, those who are built for EH and play like it's EH, are gonna die in EE, unless you are willing to go through a huge chunk of potions, (not to mention a huge chunk of your day!), each and every EE run.

    It's not a sliding scale, it's a cliff. You very quickly go from overpowering quests on your own, to being irrelevant (or being a potion-consuming healbot).

    So it's come to this -- there are a few people on my server that I know, that I have run with, that I would consider very elite players. I'll run EE with them when asked. But otherwise, I am generally reluctant to do so, there has to be a very good reason. And I have stopped doing EE with pugs entirely.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    u17-u18 dead

    u19 hard but possible
    Seems to me that it's as dead now in EE Storm Horns as it was before in EE Gianthold. I.e., not unworkable, but needing near-max investment and still usually sub-optimal.

    All the power inflation in U19 made it good in all previous EE content, and it's fine in EE Wheloon, too. EE Storm Horns mob saves & CRs are so bloated though...
    Last edited by SirValentine; 09-27-2013 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Why do people on these forums ask about EE. Nobody plays EE in game. It just shows you how out of step the forums are from in game.
    Huh?

    LOTS of people play EEs.

    I just TRed, but for months, almost every 6-man quest I ran was EE. Sometimes with guildies, sometimes with channel folks, and often with PUGs.

    Why do you think nobody plays EE?

  12. #52
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Other than healing, buffing, and crowd control they have little else to offer a party.
    Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

    Seriously, if you're bring heals, buffs, AND CC it seems pretty weird to mention they they aren't bringing "anything" else considering there's only one other relevant contribution: DPS. And spellsingers can rock a beastly energy burst, they get +1/pt universal from their tree, have great CHA, and spellpower as a class skill, so it's not like their DPS is completely trivial.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Seems to me that it's as dead now in EE Storm Horns as it was before in EE Gianthold. I.e., not unworkable, but needing near-max investment and still usually sub-optimal.

    All the power inflation in U19 made it good in all previous EE content, and it's fine in EE Wheloon, too. EE Storm Horns mob saves & CRs are so bloated though...
    I'm going off of my druid, which is a first life dc caster. I can sit down mobs with an 80% success rate except for orc archers and shadar-kai assassins in WGU. Everything else is on the ground while my melee slaves kill it. =P I do think I am only 1 or two dc shy of max for what a first lifer could do though on him. So I'd still say possible but hard for dc casting.

    edit*
    actually the prison was harder on me as everything there has higher reflex saves.

  14. #54
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Huh?

    LOTS of people play EEs.

    I just TRed, but for months, almost every 6-man quest I ran was EE. Sometimes with guildies, sometimes with channel folks, and often with PUGs.

    Why do you think nobody plays EE?
    Because people do not. I rarely see lfms that are EE. I rarely hear about EEs. There are very few groups that run EEs even in guild/friends/channel type of things. I am guessing there maybe 4 or so groups that run ees on my server at the moment and I would guess that they generally do not run EEs but rather other difficulty levels or spend a lot of time trring.
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  15. #55
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan220 View Post
    Lots of posts in recent times saying Divines are a waste of a party slot.

    I will agree that my own Cleric, built for EEs and raiding is pretty lacklustre in EH questing as hes just not needed as a healer and as hes pure healbot his dps is very inefficient.

    However in EEs he excels at keeping people alive allowing the group to fully concentrate on their primary roles, whilst Divine Punishing.


    I will agree that there are times when a dedicated healer isnt needed - a couple of months ago I ran an EE Tor channel run (I was on my WF Caster at the time) that had a Shiradi pigeon along as Divine and that group just didnt need healing such was the skill and gearing of the group.

    But that isnt the norm imo.

    So, what are you thoughts?

    EE Divine dedicated healers - needed or pointless?
    If the others in the party can totally rely on that dedicated healer everything is fine. Or from the healer's perspective, if eveybody can compensate one totally defensive and passive toon, then all is fine. In worst case, the healer acts like a hireling, but with hopefully better intelligence.

    In best case that player can assist with offensive spell potential as well and knows when not-to-heal.


    The message of healer divines = useless is highly depending on party setup and player skill. So, the *lot of posts* you are referring to are *lot of subjective gibberish put into a general valid positon*.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Because people do not. I rarely see lfms that are EE. I rarely hear about EEs. There are very few groups that run EEs even in guild/friends/channel type of things. I am guessing there maybe 4 or so groups that run ees on my server at the moment and I would guess that they generally do not run EEs but rather other difficulty levels or spend a lot of time trring.
    That's your server. it's not true of all.

  17. #57
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridge_Dweller View Post
    That's your server. it's not true of all.
    Well I logged onto Ghallanda at 10:30 pm EST last night and no I did not see any ee lfms or really any difference then my server. If there was some magical server where there were tons of ee lfms and tons of ee being run I would consider transferring a couple of characters just to have some fun and play some ee.
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  18. #58
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Well I logged onto Ghallanda at 10:30 pm EST last night and no I did not see any ee lfms or really any difference then my server. If there was some magical server where there were tons of ee lfms and tons of ee being run I would consider transferring a couple of characters just to have some fun and play some ee.
    On thelanis I see ee lfms for easier ee's at least once per night. Harder ee's like shadowfail are generally just guild / channel since you need to have everyone pull their weight.

  19. #59
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

    Seriously, if you're bring heals, buffs, AND CC it seems pretty weird to mention they they aren't bringing "anything" else considering there's only one other relevant contribution: DPS. And spellsingers can rock a beastly energy burst, they get +1/pt universal from their tree, have great CHA, and spellpower as a class skill, so it's not like their DPS is completely trivial.
    I am by no means hating on Spellsingers or support, merely pointing out that people here seem angry about healbots being a 'waste' but then completely ignore the fact that there are other support builds (like spellsingers, dedicated shintao monks, and enchantment wizards) that don't bring as much raw dps as some other builds. But even then, when it comes to damage output, spellsinger is still rock bottom; their only halfway decent offensive spell is greater shout which is trivial, at best, on an air sorcerer. And, now that spellsingers get heal and wail as 6th level spells, they have no wiggle room for spell choice, which means that, most likely, greater shout is going to become contested for the 4th spell slot (heal, mass cure, and irresistible dance being the other 3).

  20. #60
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Well I logged onto Ghallanda at 10:30 pm EST last night and no I did not see any ee lfms or really any difference then my server. If there was some magical server where there were tons of ee lfms and tons of ee being run I would consider transferring a couple of characters just to have some fun and play some ee.
    On the other hand, the 8-12 range is full of elite-streak TR LFMs.
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