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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Not true, this is during Mabar preview, those 8 deaths are from lag instagib from instaspawn all trash and all barbies with 20 reflex ate Otilukes in final fight. I doubt they would be able to get it done that fast, recover in final fight.
    No time to do anything else, go try it if you will, take 2 secs to stretch your legs in arena fight and they will die
    Otherwise, it's 20 mins EE with 1 hjealzor and 4 crazed furies ( and piking monkcher ), no CC at all.
    We've done this, grab 4 full DPS toons, a divine in healbot mode, and we usually bring a bard for haste/blur and extra damage from songs. It's awesome and you see some of the fastest and easiest completions with this setup.

  2. #22
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Umm barbs are horrible, no defenses and can't self heal outside of sf pots, so horrible toons with a healbot works.

  3. #23
    Intergalactic Space Crusader Livmo's Avatar
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    Default It dependes...

    It really depends.

    Ive' been in EE groups with more than one dedicated healer and had to fall back and keep them alive and rez them. On the other hand I've been in EE with one healer and never had to pop a Heal or Rez scroll. Same can be said for no healers in the party. I've had totally off the hook awesome EE TORs with no healers and lots of wipes in there with no healer present. I can't pop the scrolls as fast as one of those divine casters.

    I know we are not supposed to name names, but there are a few healers on my server that I always look forward to playing with regardless if they are needed or not. There is one lady and a gent that are just so awesome! They know who they are so no need to name anyway even if we could.

    I want to admit I've had healer rage before and I apologize (heal and rez/raise scrolls are expensive when you have to replace them often due to a bunk healer). Being a healer can be a tough role to play in certain parties. I like to say "to understand arty is to play one". I took my own medicine a rolled up and L1 (now3) cleric and L15 Sun Elf. OMG the tanks, being mostly barbs and fighters just suck the mana out of you!!! I can see it being very expensive for healers to have to chug lots of mana pots. BTW I've found I suck a playing a healer. I'm gonna keep pluggin away at it till it clicks tho.

    So it really depends on the group if a healer is needed in EE. Yes and no. There is no right or wrong answer. If I was goin' to be your healer in EE right now (if I was high enough level) I would say no!!! And ruuuuun! Or tell me to switch back to arty.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Livmo View Post
    I like to say "to understand arty is to play one". I took my own medicine a rolled up and L1 (now3) cleric and L15 Sun Elf. OMG the tanks, being mostly barbs and fighters just suck the mana out of you!!! I can see it being very expensive for healers to have to chug lots of mana pots.
    Here's my (probably unasked) advice for your new cleric. Get Maximize and Empower early and use the Divine Disciple SLAs with radiance gear. Six spell points of nimbus + searing light can usually knock out mobs faster than a fighter can hurt themselves trying to do it. Then with Divine Wrath and a good DC blinding half the mobs with an SLA reduces the amount of damage reckless tanks take. Carrying wands pretty much covers you for a while doing that.
    Kobold never forgive....kobold remember waterworks.

    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    i'll be putting a bug into our system.

  5. #25
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Old Question with expected results....

    Might as well ask: "are any melees a waste of a party slot"? or "how much blue bar healing do you have? Monk/fighter, etc".

    Of course if depends. And somehow this always ends up being "barbarian's suck" as part of the discussion. I thought one poster had it right on the mark that a melee of any level of self-sufficiency will be able to focus more on tactical and dps with a nice healer in the party. Cocoons and other SLAs may not be enough when in cleave range for more than a couple of seconds on some EE mobs. The same melee simply plays it more careful without a healer...and packs more potions.

    And it depends on the EE: "What goes up": Pack a real healer, no hireling. "Don't Drink the Water": I'd rather have a sorcerer or wizzy come with my Barb than an FVS,if I could only pick 1 partner. Gianthold is harder than Eveningstar; Wheloon/StormHorns are harder still. YMMV

    Oh and what if, yea I know it is a long shot, what if....you have a healer who is an in-game friend (shocking I know to imagine some of us actually having friends...or making them)? I'd let em in my group but only if I am feeling nice. ;P (wink, sarcasm)

    Now back to your generic, easily quantifiable discussion.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smckelv View Post
    Old Question with expected results....

    Might as well ask: "are any melees a waste of a party slot"? or "how much blue bar healing do you have? Monk/fighter, etc".

    Of course if depends. And somehow this always ends up being "barbarian's suck" as part of the discussion. I thought one poster had it right on the mark that a melee of any level of self-sufficiency will be able to focus more on tactical and dps with a nice healer in the party. Cocoons and other SLAs may not be enough when in cleave range for more than a couple of seconds on some EE mobs. The same melee simply plays it more careful without a healer...and packs more potions.

    And it depends on the EE: "What goes up": Pack a real healer, no hireling. "Don't Drink the Water": I'd rather have a sorcerer or wizzy come with my Barb than an FVS,if I could only pick 1 partner. Gianthold is harder than Eveningstar; Wheloon/StormHorns are harder still. YMMV

    Oh and what if, yea I know it is a long shot, what if....you have a healer who is an in-game friend (shocking I know to imagine some of us actually having friends...or making them)? I'd let em in my group but only if I am feeling nice. ;P (wink, sarcasm)

    Now back to your generic, easily quantifiable discussion.
    I think the bigger part of the problem is when people say healer they mean healbot, a healbot is only half a toon and half toons don't belong in ee's imo. divine healing can do everything you just said but they also can have their own melee dps or dc casting. They can neg level etc etc etc. Healbots aren't worth it, divines are.

  7. #27
    Intergalactic Space Crusader Livmo's Avatar
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    Default But welcomed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleus View Post
    Here's my (probably unasked) advice for your new cleric. Get Maximize and Empower early and use the Divine Disciple SLAs with radiance gear. Six spell points of nimbus + searing light can usually knock out mobs faster than a fighter can hurt themselves trying to do it. Then with Divine Wrath and a good DC blinding half the mobs with an SLA reduces the amount of damage reckless tanks take. Carrying wands pretty much covers you for a while doing that.
    TY! I will try this. I figured I will learn cleric better if I started at level 1 instead of L15. Good point on the wands!

  8. #28
    Community Member smckelv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    I think the bigger part of the problem is when people say healer they mean healbot, a healbot is only half a toon and half toons don't belong in ee's imo. divine healing can do everything you just said but they also can have their own melee dps or dc casting. They can neg level etc etc etc. Healbots aren't worth it, divines are.
    Semantics but I get your point. Is a bard divine? Mine can solo heal quite a bit, never tried him on EE though. My arty guildmate tosses a nice heal scroll to me from time to time, so does a Sorc I know.

    Healers are anyone who is able and willing to heal more than themselves. LOL I once heard a divine say that their Mass Heal was only for self-healing...cracks me up. Do they move out of the room before casting mass heal?

    Better said, I expect an class mix to be a full service toon within their theme to be effective on EE.
    Melees: Please bring CC. Work on your trips/stuns DC, etc. I already know you can DPS.
    Casters: Bring DPS and CC. AOE and burst DPS is nice. Work those DCs...
    Healers: Either way, please bring your full game and don't just toss heals.

    Also, survive please. Yes, pot speaking to kettle....but there is a big difference (both skill and build) between self-healing and survivability.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoull View Post

    One question for those who mention "Divines - Yes ; Healers - No".... what else are Divines doing in there?

    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?


    divine healing can do everything you just said but they also can have their own melee dps or dc casting.
    then with Divine Wrath and a good DC blinding half the mobs with an SLA reduces the amount of damage reckless tanks take. Carrying wands pretty much covers you for a while doing that.

    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    Last edited by Postumus; 09-26-2013 at 05:03 PM.

  10. #30
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?







    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    u17-u18 dead

    u19 hard but possible

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?

    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    it was dead, but it got better. The massive DC inflation between the enhancement pass and level cap increase has made it viable again.

  12. #32
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    I only play characters that are hybrid healer builds (unless I'm getting a quick past life, and in that case I just level up fast and TR at 20). I like the control I have as a healer- ok, that wasn't supposed to make me sound so evil, but I like that I can fill that role if it's needed and don't like relying on the party to do it. I have to say, a lot of times, you're going to need at least a bard to heal a lot of EE pugs. And a lot of times, if you bring a pure healbot you are going to be straight up bored. I'm confident that I'm worth my spot though, on a hybrid build, especially when I'm focused and play them well.

    Honestly most one trick pony characters are going to find they will suck in certain quests and certain groups, though. There are quests that really give a butt whooping if you're a melee, quests where the enemies are immune to various types of CC or instakills, quests where enemies have DR or elemental resistance that hurts certain characters that rely on those damages, quests where there really isn't any use for a tank to try and soak up hits (or where they can't get aggro efficiently), quests with unavoidable damage where you'll need to heal, quests with CC against you where you'll need someone else to heal or to have passive defenses, I'm sure you get the point by now. And that doesn't even cover groups where your role is unnecessary or redundant.

  13. #33
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?







    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    There are ways to make divines useful without relying on DC's or heals. My favorites are arcane archer builds, who can get a good majority of the DPS (if there's no need to heal) that you'll find on any pure archer build without 6 monk, and similarly you should in theory be able to make a melee build. You can spam SLAs decently as a cleric or druid, and barely make a dent in your SP if you want to save it for healing or other offensive casting. You have the support buffs from bard especially, and you can get it to a lesser extent in other classes. There's more stuff out there, and imo DC casting is not dead and you could make a decent build with DC's. As long as you have some other offense, since you will run into boss fights where a 9001 DC isn't doing you squat.

  14. #34
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Uhmmmm...... I think you may have misunderstood what some people are saying.

    But let me tell you my opinion.

    Healing is always needed.
    Healers..... maybe not.

    How much healing is needed depends on many factors.

    ... and that healing can come from many different sources.
    some of it more effective for a specific group than others.

    For example, five Barbarians who are taking a ton of damage, may not find CSW pots very effective.
    Barbarian rage is also not compatible with some sources of self healing.

    Five Rgrs may not need hardly any healing at all. They may be able to get by perfectly with CSW pots.
    Or may have even more effective means of self healing.


    If some Cleric comes along who cannot do anything else but heal...... he may find himself very bored in some groups.
    ...or he may find himself being the most valuable member of the group...
    ... all depending on how much healing a specific group requires.


    Personally, I find baby-sitting healer style to be very boring.
    and totally not needed in the groups that I consider the better groups.

    But a Cleric who is built and equipped to kill monsters and heal.... can be a valuable asset in any group.




    IMO, no one should be a one-trick-pony.
    cause sometimes no one needs your one trick. Or your one trick may not work in a certain situation.

    Better to be versatile IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    The one point that came up here that I think is relevant regardless of Class is that a character using only up to 1/2 of their abilities does not belong in EE questing.

    Divines have a lot of tools available to them from simple healing to Crowd Control. As one that enjoys playing Divine classes like FvS and Cleric - I tend to "Fill In" where I'm needed. Be that more heals less damage, or more damage with less heals.

  16. #36
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    There are ways to make divines useful without relying on DC's or heals. My favorites are arcane archer builds, who can get a good majority of the DPS (if there's no need to heal) that you'll find on any pure archer build without 6 monk, and similarly you should in theory be able to make a melee build.

    I'm not sure I'd define an arcane archer as a 'divine' but I can see what you are getting at.


    Quote Originally Posted by ZeebaNeighba View Post
    You can spam SLAs decently as a cleric or druid, and barely make a dent in your SP if you want to save it for healing or other offensive casting.

    Which SLAs are clerics spamming in EE that you consider worthwhile? Not a trap, just curious.

  17. #37
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great question considering there has been thread after thread about how 'DC casting is dead' in EE (some by the same poster who said 'Divines - Y; Healers - N"). If DC casting is dead, what is a 'divine' doing for your party? Shiradi divines?







    So make up your minds guys, is DC casting dead or isn't it?
    My cleric has grandmaster drifitng lotus and everything is nothing so even I could land spells I would have some way to contribute through destinies. In addition my light damage is decent so shrug.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  18. #38
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I'm not sure I'd define an arcane archer as a 'divine' but I can see what you are getting at.





    Which SLAs are clerics spamming in EE that you consider worthwhile? Not a trap, just curious.
    My favorite build to date is a FvS AA. It's feat starved, to say the least, so I just run with Empower, but it's a lot more fun than Ranger AA. Mainly due to the amount of stuff I can pull off, such as having a full bar of spells to cast despite only having 10 sps left. So long as I'm hitting stuff with my bow, I'm stacking temp spell points, and those can be used to cast whatever I need to cast, such as Implosion on arcane/divine mobs to either outright kill them, or put the hurt on 'em. Maybe some spot heals, etc etc.

  19. #39
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    A divine without the DCs to land spells well can spam Energy Drain, there's not much SR in the new content and it does a lot more damage to non-rednameds than Divine Punishment ever will.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  20. #40
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    A divine without the DCs to land spells well can spam Energy Drain, there's not much SR in the new content and it does a lot more damage to non-rednameds than Divine Punishment ever will.
    This is so true.

    Energy drain is the only offensive spell I carry, and, when 150k HP mob were hit by 4 energy drains today (at once, from 4 casters), it immediately went to 15k HP (EE wheloon).

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