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  1. #1
    Community Member MadGardener's Avatar
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    Default Time for the Druid bear update?

    The "Bear" Druid

    I believe, after two years and several updates to DDO, the Druid class required an update. The original vision of the class:

    'The Druid was designated as a multi-option class, dps, tank, offensive caster and healer, with the idea that you would move in one direction but have flexibility to change (somewhat) to other rolls. The shape change is supposed to offer a very different feel on how they work, interact and function. They are ultimately masters of nature and from reviewing the update 15 new class announcement they are the guardians, and portal keeper'. This is a paraphrase and summary as I understood it.

    Overview of suggestions focusing specifically on Nature’s Warden:

    1) Increase base damage in animal forms as level increases;
    2) Move the casting cool down from 2.5 to 1.5 as an enhancement option;
    3) Lengthen the Vigor and Regenerate spells duration;
    4) Add a new spell point reclamation feature, maybe called ``Elemental absorption``;
    5) Additional 9th level spell;
    6) Pet options.
    7) Capstone

    Details:

    Natural attack base damage should scale. For example the animal form could be lesser bear, greater bear, lesser dire bear, greater dire bear, and maybe supreme dire bear as a capstone. You should only be able to pick one natural form as a class feat and it would increase as the number of levels of Druid increased.

    The animal form are not only a stat increase but also were a size increase (larger base weapon category size, 4 legs bonus to forced movement includes trip, knockdown and pushes). The bear is big and it should have base damage step ups
    Animal form at level 2 die 8 when the wild shape feat is taken,
    level 5 1.5(die8).
    Level 8 dire form grants current d12 base damage and normal stat bonus, add resistance to forced movement.
    level 11 damage to 1.5(d12),
    level 14 2(d12)
    at level 17 2.5(d12)
    and finally at level 20 3(d12) and a chance of a grapple attack effectively pinning the target for a few seconds.
    Dog would have similar increases, less for damage, but melee attack speed instead and a chance of tendon slice effect.
    Named weapons would apply an addition +1 to the critical multiplier.

    Change the casting cool down from 2.5 to 1.5 as an enhancement option, particularly for defensive spells.

    The Vigor and Regenerate spells need to last longer. Vigor spells should be in flat minute value and Regenerate should be the higher value and short increments based on level like displacement or haste.

    A new feat or enhancement called ``elemental absorption`` should be added demonstrating how Druids are attuned to nature. For example, when a Druid is magically damaged they are rebated a small number of spell points back as a natural sacrifice. This feature would be truly unique and set the Druid apart from other classes

    Elemental absorption would function similar to fire/cold shield but would be 30% elemental absorption with 60% to damage, and 10% spell points rebate. Quick example: A fire trap does 50 points 30 absorbed by a protection spell, if applicable. Of the remaining 20 points, 30% (6) would be absorbed by the shield, 60% (12) taken as damage, and 10% (2) rebated into spell points.

    Same example using a 300 point fireball would be:
    boat buff or spell elemental resistance (30) leaving 270 points
    Shield (30%) -81
    Damage (60%) -162
    Rebate (10%) -27

    Note: Absorption/damage/rebate could be affected by seasons.

    A level 9 spell for the Bear would be appreciated as current there is none. I would suggest something like 'Nature Warrior': Calling forth spirits of fallen spirits to aid you. Your base becomes the same as a fighter of you level and you gain +1 to critical range for melee attacks
    .
    Another option would be a natural banish. A similar effect as turn undead, the druid could have an option to dismiss (area/mass) animal, vermin, magic beasts, or command the animal(s) to be passive on partial success unless it is successfully attacked.

    Pet companions could have masters link, the pet receives/shares all healing and buffs cast on the owner, but based on the stance of the pet. Also a new pet ability might be snap arrow, snapping projectiles out of the air and tossing them harmlessly aside. This is to help keep the pet near and not running off getting into trouble without direct orders.

    Capstone: Supreme Dire Bear spirit: True Beast Form -spirit claws and spirit form -take on the true nature of the animal form. You have become the master of the nature wardens drawing on the best nature and the spirits have to offer. In animal form you gain evasion, ghostly attacks and your shield and armour become one with the spirit plane (changes any armour and shield to spirit form 'changing the base material to 'spirit' you are considered un-armoured.

    In summary, these are some ideas to focus the animal form of the Druid into a uniquely playable form as an alternative to some of the other melee classes. Thanks for taking the time to consider these suggestions.

    Paws For the Cause

    The Bear

  2. #2
    Community Member MadGardener's Avatar
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    reserved

  3. #3
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    I agree with everything, except the elemental absorption. You have some interesting ideas, but I'd have to think about that one.

    Also remove the bloom animation while opening doors/chests/levers while in animal form. It's irritating at best, and causes lag in worst case scenarios.

    Druids need earth and air elemental forms. Not being able to cast lightning without a huge penalty is just wrong. Druids and lightning go together like peanut butter and jelly. Why only two elemental forms, and why do both of them have penalties to lightning? I like lightning, but it's unusable at higher levels because for caster druids because of this arbitrary, unfinished, and rather pointless detail.

    Pets need to scale for epics. I spent a great deal of time and effort making my pet as indestructible as possible with well over 1000hp at 20th level, deathblock, imp evasion with a 40+ reflex, and resists, prr, and ac. He can stand in traps in heroic elites or epic hards with very little or no damage. He can stand toe to toe with almost any non boss in heroic elites and epic hards and at least last long enough for me to cast some heals or make him heel.

    In epic elites he dies in seconds. It's ridiculous. The pets need something to advance them in epic levels to stay relevant.

    And lastly, more spells. There are no unused 9th level spells at 20th level if you're pure. Considering that half of them require a specific form to be used, that means that many of these spells are never used as quite a few druids only use one or maybe two forms. There are plenty of spells that could be added... let's see them. This would also encourage caster druids to go pure because as of right now, there's almost no reason to go pure... you get nothing with the higher level spells.

  4. #4
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Don't know if this is pertinent to the thread and don't get me wrong Bears definitely need buffing if things stay as they are But:

    The Current Trees are Unbelievably bad.
    Both of Em!

    What I'd have liked to have seen is for the Druid Trees to be separated NOT by Spellcasting vs Melee/Ranged BUT by Winter vs Summer.

    Druid of Winter - DPS whether Melee or Caster
    --------------

    Specializes in Ice, Elec, Acid
    Shapechanges into Wolf, Winter Wolf, Water Elemental {Winter Wolf and Elemental should be equal in ability NOT like PMs where Wraith completely outdoes Vamp!}.

    Healing abilities slightly diminished from current.

    Druid of Summer - Self Healing Tank or Out and Out Healbot if u like.
    ---------------

    Specializes in Fire and Healing {also gets the Anti-Undead Enhancements}
    Shapechanges into Bear, Dire Bear and Fire Ele {Again Dire Bear and Fire Ele should be equal!}.

    Healing abilities a bit stronger than current.

    You should be able to easily swap between your Melee form and your Caster Form - Possibly at every Shrine But at the very least while in Public Areas.

  5. #5
    Community Member Levonestral's Avatar
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    I rolled up a Druid myself to try one out a while back, and although I never really "got into it", I did feel that in many places the class felt lacking or slightly unpolished. The OP has made some really good points on places where Turbine might want to consider starting should they ever consider coming back for a review on this class. It has great potential, but an overhaul could make it much better.
    Leader of The Madborn, Thelanis
    Searros, Kangaros, Xearos, Fearos, Tearos, Zenros, Rocknros, Rargasauros, Whilyros, Frostyros, Rosificer, Levonestral, Clankros, Stabbyros

  6. #6
    Community Member HernandoCortez's Avatar
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    /signed
    EXTREME PREJUDICE™ - by Turbine.

    GHOSTBANE™ - by Turbine.

  7. #7
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    OP, you have some interesting ideas.

    Currently, the enhancements and feats that benefit druids make wolf form and water elemental forms more powerful compared to bear and fire elemental, respectively.

    For wolf vs. bear: The sheer number of doublestrike bonuses available to druids, along with sneak attack bonuses and the wolf's higher attack rate make wolf the superior melee combatant and make the bear's greater natural weapon dice irrelavent. Furthermore, bear form needs more spell points to function, since their tankish fighting style causes them to take more damage.

    For water vs. fire elemental: Fire only has one no-save spell, while ice has two. Also, ice elemental's "mantle of the icy soul" lowers saves, and the autumn surrusus (sp?) enhancement lowers saves as well. In comparison, fire elemental druids can lower fortification and some fire resistance. In higher levels, the save penalties are more useful.

    In general, I think that the druid class needs a third tree. Recall that rangers have 3 trees: a ranged tree, a melee tree, and a tree that has abilities useful to both ranged and melee styles. Druids have a casting tree and a melee tree; I think they need a tree that is useful to both playstyles.
    Last edited by HatsuharuZ; 10-17-2013 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post

    In general, I think that the druid class needs a third tree. Recall that rangers have 3 trees: a ranged tree, a melee tree, and a tree that has abilities useful to both ranged and melee styles. Druids have a casting tree and a melee tree; I think they need a tree that is useful to both playstyles.
    That's an interesting idea. Currently, you can pick and choose from both trees to get a caster/melee hybrid. But your idea makes sense.

  9. #9
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadGardener View Post
    The Vigor and Regenerate spells need to last longer. Vigor spells should be in flat minute value and Regenerate should be the higher value and short increments based on level like displacement or haste.
    With some solid heal amp and good devotion gear the vigor and regenerate line are amazingly good. My druid is (was) the most survivable toon I have ever played and it had so much to do with these two spells. I'm talking about short manning stormhorns and tanking/torcing off of EE bosses - most of which is done without displacement clickies.

    The only thing I could really see is allowing extend to work on these spells, which would be really killer amazing to be honest.


    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    Don't know if this is pertinent to the thread and don't get me wrong Bears definitely need buffing if things stay as they are But:

    The Current Trees are Unbelievably bad.
    Both of Em!
    I dissagree with this statement, especialy for the caster tree. Think about it, you have some of the best SLA in the game, 1 USP per point spent, Wand and scroll mastery, DC boosting, wisdom boosting, spell pen boosting, spell power and spell crit line. Seriously, this tree is one of the best caster tree's in the game!

    Melee tree has some good stuff in it as well, but i agree its not the best but it certainly would not be unbelievably bad. Knockdown immunity, +3-8 bass damage (thats 6-16 str!), a solid melee boost. Could be better but its not that bad at all.

  10. #10
    Community Member MadGardener's Avatar
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    I guess what is the problem for me is not the healing as much as the 50-70 spell points per cast and the 10 seconds of good healing and the 30 seconds of small healing, If the cost was much less (cleric get similar effect for free) that would be fine, or if the timer was much longer (and somewhat cheaper). That would work. as a Bear, fighting and casting healing every 10 seconds is not very effective. optionally You could look at great healing for 10 second and couple of minutes of good healing, can be a combination of temp and actual but something scalable so that the lv 28 Bear would actually notice, (10 pts is not noticeable).

    Thank you to the players that have commented on this issue so far, I know the Bear druid is likely the less popular form and I hope that some support to remedy that would be great.
    The Bear

  11. #11

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    I bet if you where a Polar bear you would get more love
    The veiw from the top is not as important as the climb to get there.

  12. #12
    Community Member MadGardener's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gemmal_trueshaft View Post
    I bet if you where a Polar bear you would get more love
    so true but this week is BEAR week
    Lasting Bear's Stamina Potion x5
    Use Coupon Code BEAR7 1/Account


    If they do nothing else the Base damage dice as levels progress has to be fixed...

  13. #13
    Community Member thegreatneil's Avatar
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    /Signed

    I love bear form but feel it needs a little work.
    Ok, more than a little work.



    Quote Originally Posted by gemmal_trueshaft View Post
    I bet if you where a Polar bear you would get more love
    I can't help to feel like this is racist, lol.
    You'll bend to my will - With or without your precious sanity.

    Neilus Soul of the Phoenix - Completionist - Orien

    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    Everyone who is more effective than me is OP, and should be nerfed.
    Everyone who has more stuff than me cheated to get it, and should be punished.
    Everyone who plays differently to me is a bad person, and should be mistreated.

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