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  1. #81
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    Dude, you're making me ashamed to be Canadian. It's not a matter of opinion, and you yourself can see the difference between Damage type and Weapon type as this last post proves. The mechanic specifies weapon type, not damage type. Period

    As for lore, what difference does it make? There are a thousand things in the game that could be argued to work differently based on some point of lore or logic. The decision was made for it to work th sway, and it does. The End.
    Legendary Dreadnought Begs to differ

    Pulverizer: Passive Bonus: Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip...Does not work with Sireth (Quarterstaff) due to the weapon not having a bludgeoning damage component. Does work on Blunted Ammunition ranged weapons though.

    Adding/changing the damage type of a weapon changes its damage type just because it was originally a bludgeoning type weapon doesn't preclude it from gaining other damage (or weapon) types.

    Another fun example is the Sun Blade...its a bastard sword that for all purposes of any feats etc. is a short sword despite originally being a bastard sword...proving once again that when an affect adds or changes a weapon OR damage type it should apply to feats,etc.

    The ONLY reason that Wolf/Bear Form use IC: Bludgeon is because the Devs were to lazy to give it unique coding like Sunblade, Blunted Ammunition or Sireth.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-30-2013 at 02:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #82
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Ok look lets ignore your...opinion...I just want to know WHY you don't think this should work is there some kind of lore reason or mechanical reason it shouldn't work or is your "opinion" the only reason.

    If it is the only reason than please stop posting here your derailing this thread with your ranting...Bows do piercing damage, Claws do slashing and/or piercing damage (wolf claws actually dont proc ANY bludegoning damage as skeletons DR applies) and Handwraps have various ways of obtaining slashing and piercing damage.
    Ignore it if you like it is not an opinion it is a statement of fact as to how sting works.

    if you want my opinion on why it works like this it is to give a little buff to those who choose to build a ninja using ninja weapons and not give the same boost to every monk

  3. #83
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Legendary Dreadnought Begs to differ

    Pulverizer: Passive Bonus: Increases the critical threat range of bludgeoning weapons you equip...Does not work with Sireth (Quarterstaff) due to the weapon not having a bludgeoning damage component. Does work on Blunted Ammunition ranged weapons though.

    Adding/changing the damage type of a weapon changes its damage type just because it was originally a bludgeoning type weapon doesn't preclude it from gaining other damage (or weapon) types.

    Another fun example is the Sun Blade...its a bastard sword that for all purposes of any feats etc. is a short sword despite originally being a bastard sword...proving once again that when an affect adds or changes a weapon OR damage type it should apply to feats,etc.

    The ONLY reason that Wolf/Bear Form use IC: Bludgeon is because the Devs were to lazy to give it unique coding like Sunblade, Blunted Ammunition or Sireth.
    That's the thing. The older version of sting of the ninja was just like Pulverizer in description and in practice. The wording has now been clearly changed to look at weapon type. It says specifically weapons that normally deal piercing or slashing. Not logging to look now but I believe it also says melee somewhere in there (according to another's earlier post, double check on that part would be great). Handwraps and quarterstaffs do not normally deal piercing or slashing, and this reading of it is reflected in the way it works now. So it is not a bug. *******However, I do think it was more appropriate the original way. It not being a bug doesn't change my opinion on what I think of the change, I still think it was an unnecessary nerf. But its not a bug, its doing what its new wording says it should.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  4. #84
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    That's the thing. The older version of sting of the ninja was just like Pulverizer in description and in practice. The wording has now been clearly changed to look at weapon type. It says specifically weapons that normally deal piercing or slashing. Not logging to look now but I believe it also says melee somewhere in there (according to another's earlier post, double check on that part would be great). Handwraps and quarterstaffs do not normally deal piercing or slashing, and this reading of it is reflected in the way it works now. So it is not a bug. *******However, I do think it was more appropriate the original way. It not being a bug doesn't change my opinion on what I think of the change, I still think it was an unnecessary nerf. But its not a bug, its doing what its new wording says it should.
    IF that's true (I still don't think it is as every other example has it work the way I'm saying it should) Than they should either change it back or change pulverizer, sunblade and other similar abilities or items as its not consistent thus the rules are confusing as this argument of what is two different ways to read the wording.

    Also if I'm to understand the oppositions interpretation If I made a Fighter/Monk with "One with the Blade" than I should be able to use Dex for to-hit and damage for say a greatsword or a greataxe? because those make absolutely no sense to me for dex to attack/damage whereas unarmed or wolf claws do.

    I'm surprised a Dev hasn't stepped in to clarify which interpretation is correct yet or hell if their both wrong
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 10-01-2013 at 08:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Handwraps = Weapons (which can gain piercing and slashing damage numerous ways)
    Wolf/Bear Claws =Weapons (which deal slashing and/or piercing damage)
    Bows = Weapons (which deal piercing damage and can become ki weapons)

    Thus they fulfill the slashing and/or piercing damage requirement. Thus is bugged this is pure cold facts it cant be argued. This and the fact that Bows don't generate Ki needs to be fixed.

    Now without mentioning damage types answer WHY you think mechanically or lorewise this shouldn't work
    Good old rules lawyering. The mechanic is set up to bring non-handwrap/staff using monks to a relatively viable level and you want to try to twist it into a boost to already stronger choices.

  6. #86
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    IF that's true (I still don't think it is as every other example has it work the way I'm saying it should) Than they should either change it back or change pulverizer, sunblade and other similar abilities or items as its not consistent thus the rules are confusing as this argument of what is two different ways to read the wording.

    Also if I'm to understand the oppositions interpretation If I made a Fighter/Monk with "One with the Blade" than I should be able to use Dex for to-hit and damage for say a greatsword or a greataxe? because those make absolutely no sense to me for dex to attack/damage whereas unarmed or wolf claws do.

    I'm surprised a Dev hasn't stepped in to clarify which interpretation is correct yet or hell if their both wrong
    I've ONLY been talking about the "Sting of the Ninja" enhancement. The dex to hit/damage stuff is something else I'm not touching atm. Your one with the blade greatsword/axe should work with sting of the ninja. In fact as far as that's concerned there's been absolutely no change. The change that was made was that instead of working like pulverizer, it now works improved critical.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  7. #87
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    IF that's true (I still don't think it is as every other example has it work the way I'm saying it should) Than they should either change it back or change pulverizer, sunblade and other similar abilities or items as its not consistent thus the rules are confusing as this argument of what is two different ways to read the wording.

    Also if I'm to understand the oppositions interpretation If I made a Fighter/Monk with "One with the Blade" than I should be able to use Dex for to-hit and damage for say a greatsword or a greataxe? because those make absolutely no sense to me for dex to attack/damage whereas unarmed or wolf claws do.

    I'm surprised a Dev hasn't stepped in to clarify which interpretation is correct yet or hell if their both wrong
    no you don't understand the opposition or maybe you do and that is why you put words in our mouths.

  8. #88
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I've ONLY been talking about the "Sting of the Ninja" enhancement. The dex to hit/damage stuff is something else I'm not touching atm. Your one with the blade greatsword/axe should work with sting of the ninja. In fact as far as that's concerned there's been absolutely no change. The change that was made was that instead of working like pulverizer, it now works improved critical.
    I sense a change in Pulverizer coming!

    Honestly I wouldn't mind it. I think most people would prefer some sort of standardization so that things are predictable. It sucks having to wonder if feat/enhancement "A" will work like feat/enhancement "B" or like feat/enhancement "C", especially when they all share similar wording. Make things understandable, reliable, and consistent, then we can confidently build toons around the information available.

  9. #89
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    I sense a change in Pulverizer coming!

    Honestly I wouldn't mind it. I think most people would prefer some sort of standardization so that things are predictable. It sucks having to wonder if feat/enhancement "A" will work like feat/enhancement "B" or like feat/enhancement "C", especially when they all share similar wording. Make things understandable, reliable, and consistent, then we can confidently build toons around the information available.
    I agree stuff should be clearer, but there is utility in having both of these options available for potential abilities. Quite frankly I think they have these reversed. Pulverizer as a top tier ability for spec'ing bludgeoning weapons shouldn't punish the staff user when they get a hold of Sireth, or some other future situation with a differently damage typed "bludgeoning group" weapon. And sting of the ninja, isn't a top ability and it was neat to have it interact with these exceptional weapons, plus I don't think there are any weapons in the "piercing/slashing groups" of weapons that don't deal damage piercing or slashing damage (except Celestia, but really it should have some exception coded into that weapon itself so it isn't screwed over) that anyone would care about.

    In anycase, I agree that it's fairly messy and could use some cleaning up.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

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