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Thread: Marbar lore,

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    Default Marbar lore,

    I can find no lore to show why Shadar-kai would find them-self in Ebron/Mabar. What do you think, ya or nay?

    This is what i have found so far.
    Devs, any comment or referents would be great as to why.

    Mabar
    Mabar the Endless Night is a blackened realm where the faintest spark of light is quickly devoured by the unending darkness. It is a plane suffused with negative energy and the antithesis of Irian. Negative energy spells are maximized and all the inhabitants of this plane are immune to effects from negative energy. Positive energy spells are impeded here.
    The nights grow blacker and more dangerous when Mabar becomes coterminous with Eberron. Travel to Mabar becomes as easy as stepping into an area where there is no light, and inhabitants of the plane slip out from the shadows and into the world. The plane becomes coterminous on three dark nights in the dead of night on the nights of the new moon closest to the winter solstice.
    Consequently when Mabar is remote the darkness seems to sap from Eberron. These periods occur every five years on the nights of the full moon around the summer solstice.

    Shadar-kai

    The shadar-kai, or shadow fey, are a race of bitter, determined folk whose souls are poisoned by shadow. Grayskinned and dark-eyed, the slender shadar-kai stand slightly taller than average humans, and their soft movements exude grace and uncanny stealth. Shadow follows the shadar-kai wherever they go. Shadows cast by the folds of their clothing seem deeper than those on humanoids, and a shadar-kai can seemingly fade out of sight by simply stepping into any common shadow. The shadar-kai prefer light weapons suited for grace and agility, especially spiked chains. Many shadar-kai favor a variety of piercings and tattoos.

    Long ago, the shadar-kai thought to preserve the world from the rising humanoid races. Skilled in shadow magic, the shadar-kai made a pact with a dark power of the Plane of Shadow to cast the world into an endless twilight in which the shadow fey would rule supreme. But the experiment went awry, and the shadar-kai were left bound to the Plane of Shadow, cursed to lose their souls in its dark depths. This shadow curse affects shadar-kai to this day, and every member of the race is engaged in a lifelong struggle to stave off inevitable doom.

    The continuous pull of the Plane of Shadow has left the shadar-kai grim and embattled. Few races understand the plight of the shadow fey. Even the temporary solutions the shadar-kai have found leave them struggling with constant pain, making them vicious. Their willingness to commit acts of cruelty and violence has increased with each generation.


    Ref: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadar-kai
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavernDragon View Post
    I can find no lore to show why Shadar-kai would find them-self in Ebron/Mabar. What do you think, ya or nay?

    This is what i have found so far.
    Devs, any comment or referents would be great as to why.

    Mabar
    Mabar the Endless Night is a blackened realm where the faintest spark of light is quickly devoured by the unending darkness. It is a plane suffused with negative energy and the antithesis of Irian. Negative energy spells are maximized and all the inhabitants of this plane are immune to effects from negative energy. Positive energy spells are impeded here.
    The nights grow blacker and more dangerous when Mabar becomes coterminous with Eberron. Travel to Mabar becomes as easy as stepping into an area where there is no light, and inhabitants of the plane slip out from the shadows and into the world. The plane becomes coterminous on three dark nights in the dead of night on the nights of the new moon closest to the winter solstice.
    Consequently when Mabar is remote the darkness seems to sap from Eberron. These periods occur every five years on the nights of the full moon around the summer solstice.

    Shadar-kai

    The shadar-kai, or shadow fey, are a race of bitter, determined folk whose souls are poisoned by shadow. Grayskinned and dark-eyed, the slender shadar-kai stand slightly taller than average humans, and their soft movements exude grace and uncanny stealth. Shadow follows the shadar-kai wherever they go. Shadows cast by the folds of their clothing seem deeper than those on humanoids, and a shadar-kai can seemingly fade out of sight by simply stepping into any common shadow. The shadar-kai prefer light weapons suited for grace and agility, especially spiked chains. Many shadar-kai favor a variety of piercings and tattoos.

    Long ago, the shadar-kai thought to preserve the world from the rising humanoid races. Skilled in shadow magic, the shadar-kai made a pact with a dark power of the Plane of Shadow to cast the world into an endless twilight in which the shadow fey would rule supreme. But the experiment went awry, and the shadar-kai were left bound to the Plane of Shadow, cursed to lose their souls in its dark depths. This shadow curse affects shadar-kai to this day, and every member of the race is engaged in a lifelong struggle to stave off inevitable doom.

    The continuous pull of the Plane of Shadow has left the shadar-kai grim and embattled. Few races understand the plight of the shadow fey. Even the temporary solutions the shadar-kai have found leave them struggling with constant pain, making them vicious. Their willingness to commit acts of cruelty and violence has increased with each generation.


    Ref: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shadar-kai
    In eberron, Shadar Kai are from the Shadowfell, just like in every other D&D world. The Shadowfell in Eberron consists of Dolurrh and Mabar. This is from official WotC media here:

    "Eberron has a shadowfell, just as the core world
    of the D&D game does. Also called the Plane of
    shadow, the shadowfell encompasses both Dolurrh,
    the Realm of the Dead, and a region of shadows and
    despair called Mabar, the Endless night."

    As I mentioned in another thread, lore wise, the undead make less sense than Shadar Kai, who, thematically and lore-wise, fit the theme of Mabar, seeing as how they are from there. Undead, however, hail from the realm of Dolurrh, where everything, good and bad, goes when it dies. The undead have no connection to Mabar what-so-ever...so if someone is going to complain over thematics and lore concerning the Shadar Kai, you should have been complaining for the past few years!
    Last edited by Shorlong; 09-25-2013 at 10:14 AM.
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    How bout because there is a rift between worlds now that allows travel between Eberon and the FR? If players and Shadar-Kai
    toons can travel this way, why does it not makes sense for NPS's to be able to as well? So what if a group of Shadar-Kai decide
    to travel through and attack the heroes in a graveyard while they are distracted by hordes of undead? Seems like a reasonable
    and fun adventure to me.
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    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKalbSun View Post
    How bout because there is a rift between worlds now that allows travel between Eberon and the FR? If players and Shadar-Kai
    toons can travel this way, why does it not makes sense for NPS's to be able to as well? So what if a group of Shadar-Kai decide
    to travel through and attack the heroes in a graveyard while they are distracted by hordes of undead? Seems like a reasonable
    and fun adventure to me.
    While that could work, you're creating a loophole where there doesn't need to be one. The story is already there, most people just don't know it or ignore it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    As I mentioned in another thread, lore wise, the undead do not make less sense than Shadar Kai, who, thematically and lore-wise, fit the theme of Mabar, seeing as how they are from there. Undead, however, hail from the realm of Dolurrh, where everything, good and bad, goes when it dies. The undead have no connection to Mabar what-so-ever...so if someone is going to complain over thematics and lore concerning the Shadar Kai, you should have been complaining for the past few years!
    Undead still fit. Even though most are not from Mabar.

    Since we're quoting lore.

    On Eberron, one can be brought back after death as either an undead or as a deathless. Those that are undead are said to have been infused with the essence of Mabar, while deathless have been infused with the powers of Irian.
    Interestingly enough sucubi are appropriate and they should have added Yugoloths too.

    Inhabitants:

    The most populous of the denizens of Mabar are the yugoloths, demons of evil. Other demons, such as the kastighur and the succubus, also calls Mabar their home.

    Creatures of shadow are spawned from Mabar, like barghests, nightshades, shadow mastiffs and trillochs.

    Some undead haunt Mabar, including bodaks, various nightshades, necronauts, shadows and vasuthants.

    Mabar is also home to the negative energons known as the xeg-yi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Undead still fit. Even though most are not from Mabar.

    Since we're quoting lore..
    I stand corrected! It would be nice if we got the real undead from Mabar though, and not the undead most likely aligned with Dolurrh. But, I can squeeze it in thematically and lore-wise, so I'm ok with it.
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    Regardless of Lore I'd still rather see undead in the event.

    I'd make an exception maybe for werewolves though. These chain slinging foks seemed out of place to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoglum View Post
    Regardless of Lore I'd still rather see undead in the event.

    I'd make an exception maybe for werewolves though. These chain slinging foks seemed out of place to me.
    Werewolves make less sense, as they are from the Prime plan, so have no Planar affiliations. That, and the silver flame wiped them off the face of the planet thousands of years ago.
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    Shadar-Kai have sort of a Goth feel to me. In RL, it seems that a lot of the kids associated with the Goth Culture tend to congregate in Cemetaries. So, it works for me.

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    Granted, I'm not big into the D&D mythos, but what ever happened to the Abyss? Early D&D concentrated on the Abyss which is where some of the demons mentioned here spawn from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Werewolves make less sense, as they are from the Prime plan, so have no Planar affiliations. That, and the silver flame wiped them off the face of the planet thousands of years ago.
    Or did they...?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    Werewolves make less sense, as they are from the Prime plan, so have no Planar affiliations. That, and the silver flame wiped them off the face of the planet thousands of years ago.
    The Purge didn't completely eradicate lycanthropy. It did whittle down the numbers for sure, and it made those affected by it more secretive knowing the Silver Flame's enlightened view of things

    In modern times, you're as likely to be offered a cure or exiled to Lamannia - if you refuse then it's the sharp end of a pointy silver stick for you

    Some old details on it including The Purge from Keith Baker himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    The Purge didn't completely eradicate lycanthropy. It did whittle down the numbers for sure, and it made those affected by it more secretive knowing the Silver Flame's enlightened view of things

    In modern times, you're as likely to be offered a cure or exiled to Lamannia - if you refuse then it's the sharp end of a pointy silver stick for you

    Some old details on it including The Purge from Keith Baker himself.
    Thank you very much for that link! Going to be very helpful for my table top game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinggartk View Post
    Shadar-Kai have sort of a Goth feel to me. In RL, it seems that a lot of the kids associated with the Goth Culture tend to congregate in Cemetaries. So, it works for me.
    This is the most plausible explanation in my mind. Though in all honesty I actually see the Shadar-Kai/Mabar situation pretty much from both sides. There are plausible lore reasons to see them there. The significant number of them smacks of cheap marketing.

    When live, I think reducing the number of Shadar-Kai would have the desired effect of making people think about buying the expansion without the unintended consequence of making people hate the sight of Shadar-Kai or their use as an obvious marketing ploy.
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    I can only imagine how much more annoying the Mabar event would be if it was only "true" Mabarian creatures, shadows and umbral worgs and spectres....it'd be like Necro III, everything phasing out every time you hit it. Just imagine how annoying the kill-stealing would be

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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I can only imagine how much more annoying the Mabar event would be if it was only "true" Mabarian creatures, shadows and umbral worgs and spectres....it'd be like Necro III, everything phasing out every time you hit it. Just imagine how annoying the kill-stealing would be
    While I would like this visually, the lack of firewalls in the public area would suck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorlong View Post
    "Eberron has a shadowfell, just as the core world
    of the D&D game does. Also called the Plane of
    shadow, the shadowfell encompasses both Dolurrh,
    the Realm of the Dead, and a region of shadows and
    despair called Mabar, the Endless night."
    This is entirely out of context, and therefore wrong. I had to look up that wizard's forum post, since a link wasn't provided for others to look at it and see how skewed it was being used here. What it really is saying is that Eberron has all of the qualities of the Shadowfel, which have been split up between those different planes. It has no actual Shadowfel, that is unique to Forgotten Realms. Grayhawk and other settings have 'Shadowfel like' planes, but none of them have identical properties to Shadowfel.

    There is absolutely no place for Shadar-Ki in Mabar. The political groups that they follow and oppose, without which there would be no Shadar-Ki subrace, do not exist in Eberron. There absolutely is a place for Vampires and other intelligent undead, mostly of the monstrous types. If Turbine were to follow lore, we would see many Nightshades and Barghest (sp?) as well as Shadows and Umbral creatures. But at least Vampires and Liches are fairly close, where Shadar-Ki are just kind of getting rammed in there because "Hey, they are new! Let's use them.".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    This is entirely out of context, and therefore wrong. I had to look up that wizard's forum post, since a link wasn't provided for others to look at it and see how skewed it was being used here. What it really is saying is that Eberron has all of the qualities of the Shadowfel, which have been split up between those different planes. It has no actual Shadowfel, that is unique to Forgotten Realms. Grayhawk and other settings have 'Shadowfel like' planes, but none of them have identical properties to Shadowfel.
    You don't know much how the D&D cosmology was changed from the Great Wheel to the 4e planar lore, right?

    The Great Wheel was composed of aligned planes, elemental planes, semi-elemental planes (where the elemental planes touch each other), positive/negative energy planes, demi-elemental planes (where the elemental planes touch the positie/negative planes), and some few other realms that do not fit any of the above.

    Eberron original cosmology includes 13 planes with varying approaches to Eberron. Each one have a theme, and their proximity changes how things work on Eberron. Eg, summer is basically the period when Fernia is approaching Eberron, while winter is the same with Risia. Each one is independent to each other, and loremasters in Eberron try to study their activity, to not get surprised when things change.

    4e threw the Great Wheel away, and substituted it with the 5 main external realms: The Astral Sea (where the Gods and most energy-based planes are), the Elemental Chaos (where pure and mixed elements creates everything), the Feywild (where the fey-like creatures come from, and where the world takes most of their "nature" energy), the Shadowfell (where the dead go), and the Far Realm (Lovecraftian stuff).

    4e Eberron kept their original cosmology, but encased them in the new planar lore, so that Eberron-themes stuff could be used for other 4e players. For example, if you wanted to use an adventure that passes on Lamannia, you can play it on Greyhawk changing Lamannia to the Feywild. A few lore stuff might need to be changed, but otherwise it is consistent enough to minimize your job.

    That new cosmology put Mabar and Dolurrh in the Shadowfell, as if they were domains inside the great plane. One part of the Shadowfell concentrates the souls of the dead, and is called Dolurrh. Other part encases the shadow and power of darkness and is called Mabar.
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    I always wondered why no zombies...it's a graveyard...imagine zombie parts flying everywhere blood spattering all over each other....zombie giants zombie dragons...zombies...yeh

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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    You don't know much how the D&D cosmology was changed from the Great Wheel to the 4e planar lore, right?

    The Great Wheel was composed of aligned planes, elemental planes, semi-elemental planes (where the elemental planes touch each other), positive/negative energy planes, demi-elemental planes (where the elemental planes touch the positie/negative planes), and some few other realms that do not fit any of the above.

    Eberron original cosmology includes 13 planes with varying approaches to Eberron. Each one have a theme, and their proximity changes how things work on Eberron. Eg, summer is basically the period when Fernia is approaching Eberron, while winter is the same with Risia. Each one is independent to each other, and loremasters in Eberron try to study their activity, to not get surprised when things change.

    4e threw the Great Wheel away, and substituted it with the 5 main external realms: The Astral Sea (where the Gods and most energy-based planes are), the Elemental Chaos (where pure and mixed elements creates everything), the Feywild (where the fey-like creatures come from, and where the world takes most of their "nature" energy), the Shadowfell (where the dead go), and the Far Realm (Lovecraftian stuff).

    4e Eberron kept their original cosmology, but encased them in the new planar lore, so that Eberron-themes stuff could be used for other 4e players. For example, if you wanted to use an adventure that passes on Lamannia, you can play it on Greyhawk changing Lamannia to the Feywild. A few lore stuff might need to be changed, but otherwise it is consistent enough to minimize your job.

    That new cosmology put Mabar and Dolurrh in the Shadowfell, as if they were domains inside the great plane. One part of the Shadowfell concentrates the souls of the dead, and is called Dolurrh. Other part encases the shadow and power of darkness and is called Mabar.
    This game is not based on 4e, though so they should leave 4e lore out of it. That being said, I believe there are lore specific reasosn for the shadar-kai to be here, in 3e lore, I just don't ahve the right supplaments to quote for you. Check the feind folio.
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