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Thread: I just feel bad

  1. #61
    Community Member Sleepsalot-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirochan57 View Post
    1. lets say the whole group ignored the 'stalker'. the stalker turns out to be depressive and kills himself because no one accepted him into the party or talked to him

    2. lets say you meet a woman in real life and really like her hair. You complement how lovely her hair is. Turns out she had cancer, chemotherapy and wears a wig.
    She starts crying, rips off her wig goes home and kills herself.

    3 suppose there is a teenage boy who kills his whole family because his mother interrupted him playing GTA, and everyone blames video game creators.

    I do not see anything wrong with what Xaris wanted to do. in his case the 'stalker' was the bully and the party being bullied aka the victim.
    it is natural and understandable to want to defend oneself. even if the joke is crude inappropriate and I wouldn't use it.
    my bottom line would be, there is no way to foresee every possible offensive situation. there are too many possible interactions and factors.
    even if You decide you do not want to offend anyone anymore and choose to not speak again, you may offend someone who found your silence offensive.
    putting blame on other people is silly.

    teenage suicide and internet bullying is not relevant here.
    Xaris' suggestion would not be bullying, the stalker was the bully, and you are not responsible for lack of maturity or mental health of others.
    at least this is what I believe.

    EDIT
    having said that, the only things you shouldnt say are things that break DDO chat rules or break the teamleader's rules IF he/she states any and You dont want to be kicked out.
    other than that, its fair game to me
    In this day and age of the I-Net teenage suicide and internet bullying is very relevant here. Sorry but you may not understand the Impact of Telling some to go kill themselves.. I have seen first hand some real messes that came from Suicide.. Now the OP made a poor mistake I hope he can learn from all of this.. But for any one to Condone this type of actions sorry is wrong..

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepsalot-1 View Post
    In this day and age of the I-Net teenage suicide and internet bullying is very relevant here. Sorry but you may not understand the Impact of Telling some to go kill themselves.. I have seen first hand some real messes that came from Suicide.. Now the OP made a poor mistake I hope he can learn from all of this.. But for any one to Condone this type of actions sorry is wrong..
    let me see if I understand this right:
    if someone stalks you (real life or a game), you first ignore the person, then tell him/her to stop following you and get a litany of vulgarisms directed at you in return,
    you would still feel comfortable and not willing to defend yourself? would you still be wondering 'gee, maybe i should tell him to f&%k off but what if it gets to him?'

    yes, telling someone to kill himself is not pleasant, nor is it in good taste.
    but it does not constitute bullying, when you do it to make someone go away. and besides bullying is a chronic activity, not a single sentence.
    as for teenage suicide, again, no one is responsible for checking age or mental health of every other single person when they decide to talk to that person in-game.
    if you are referring to teens who kill themselves not becuase of long term internet abuse, but because of a sudden one sentence in a video game, then they might as well kill themselves because
    someone on the street said to them something unpleasant.

    You seem to put the blame on the trigger, not on the source.
    I agree that constant long-term bullying may lead to suicide, but if someone kills himself because of a singular incident mild incident that he himself caused, then
    his mental health already doomed him, with or without you.

    also you should not assume I don't know anything about the subject. simply because you dont know what I know.
    but overall good talk
    cheers

  3. #63
    Community Member blackdoguk's Avatar
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    Have to say that this thread actually turned out to be the most life affirming I've seen on the forum for some time.

    There I jinxed it.

    Barbachop/Fizzburn/Politikills & Boaby - Omnipresence,Ghallanda

  4. #64
    Community Member Sleepsalot-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirochan57 View Post
    let me see if I understand this right:
    if someone stalks you (real life or a game), you first ignore the person, then tell him/her to stop following you and get a litany of vulgarisms directed at you in return,
    you would still feel comfortable and not willing to defend yourself? would you still be wondering 'gee, maybe i should tell him to f&%k off but what if it gets to him?'

    yes, telling someone to kill himself is not pleasant, nor is it in good taste.
    but it does not constitute bullying, when you do it to make someone go away. and besides bullying is a chronic activity, not a single sentence.
    as for teenage suicide, again, no one is responsible for checking age or mental health of every other single person when they decide to talk to that person in-game.
    if you are referring to teens who kill themselves not becuase of long term internet abuse, but because of a sudden one sentence in a video game, then they might as well kill themselves because
    someone on the street said to them something unpleasant.

    You seem to put the blame on the trigger, not on the source.
    I agree that constant long-term bullying may lead to suicide, but if someone kills himself because of a singular incident mild incident that he himself caused, then
    his mental health already doomed him, with or without you.

    also you should not assume I don't know anything about the subject. simply because you dont know what I know.
    but overall good talk
    cheers
    You are right on one point I don't know you. Nor do you know what may be on some ones mind. I may be the last thing some on needs to put them over the Edge. Having been on both ends of Bullying I can say it is wrong. Just because the guy the OP was talking about did it.. It doesn't make it right to do it back.. This I learned first hand also.. Not going into big details here but it cost me a very dear friend.. So please just take it as it is.. I think maybe there was some things here we don't have all the details on..
    Good Luck
    Happy Gaming

  5. #65
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    What is defined as bullying seems to be the question. Is it everything that is said that can be seen as negative, or systematic tormenting.

    If the being told to drop dead (in this case at least) is the final straw that pushes the poor guy over the edge, he was looking for it by insulting people. Now, im not saying that being told to drop dead is a nice thing to do, but i DO believe in even scales.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  6. #66

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    Delera Graveyard is a public place. Everyone can move freely there, and also if you apparently do not like people near your group around, you just have to accept it. Instead of trolling other players (I do not have the smallest sympathy for this attitude) you should suggest in forums to implement private instances for Mabar if this is your wish.

    And finally, killstealing is a myth.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepsalot-1 View Post
    You are right on one point I don't know you. Nor do you know what may be on some ones mind. I may be the last thing some on needs to put them over the Edge. Having been on both ends of Bullying I can say it is wrong. Just because the guy the OP was talking about did it.. It doesn't make it right to do it back.. This I learned first hand also.. Not going into big details here but it cost me a very dear friend.. So please just take it as it is.. I think maybe there was some things here we don't have all the details on..
    Good Luck
    Happy Gaming
    and we agree on two more things, no one knows what is on the mind of other people. and bullying is wrong, obviously.

    so, You cannot foresee the triggers.
    judging 'go kill yourself' is fairly easy, because it includes some offensive qualities. but we have no idea what kind of triggers mental illnesses bring.
    how about someone with schizophrenia who is certain that people using the word 'lovely' are agents sent by martians and want to 'get' him.
    You use that word in a conversation, he gets frightened, runs away and dies in a car accident.
    my point is, there is no way to predict and prevent these triggers from happening. no one can control himself in a way that would not bring any harm to other people.

    and lets bring the bullying definition in here:
    Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively to impose domination over others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power. Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets.

    so, looking at the definition, we can see that 'go kill yourself' said by a player to get rid of a stalker, does not impose domination. nor would it be habitual. it would not have essential prerequisite of social or physical imbalance. It would not be a threat (contrasting with for instance 'I will kill you you moron'), nor would it be a coercion, and it would stop the moment that person left. and it would not begin in the first place if the stalker wasn't stalking

    it would just be very rude and distasteful.

    I do not condone bullying, but to me this case is clearly not bullying. the trigger is too random and a one-time-event.
    I guess we reached an impass. we will not convince each other.
    lets just acknowledge different points of view, and lets not crucify OP for this thread
    cheers to all

  8. #68
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    And finally, killstealing is a myth.
    No. At least in the last couple of years, you could almost double your hourly reward by killstealing rather than staying in the group. Haven't checked out mabar this year, but I don't expect any changes.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    No. At least in the last couple of years, you could almost double your hourly reward by killstealing rather than staying in the group. Haven't checked out mabar this year, but I don't expect any changes.
    The term killstealing implys that you own the kill in advance which you do not. Just my opinion.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    who are you to say what is weak and what is strong?

    so by your reasoning - 9/11 was ok? because, thats not statistically significant.

    The green killer is actually good then because he is helping to weed out the weak, right?

    or what about, o say, the holocaust? that should be significant right.....



    I mean, ya technically you are right, but you are also wrong. You have to look at the big picture man. what if in the messed up brain of one of those suicides you write off is a cure for cancer? or the father of someone who will bring world peace (yes long shot, but gimmie a break!)

    i guess what im saying is that you have the right to say what you want to say and do what you want to do, but im glad i have the right to not deal with you.

    /shrug

    hob
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  11. #71
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoasterHops View Post
    What if one of them is Sarah Connor?
    Then you live ina fictive world
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  12. #72
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    Just an aside, "kill stealing" in Mabar only helps you. The item drop mechanic is to grant drops to random members in the agroing party, not "Kill Stealers".

  13. #73
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morkahn82 View Post
    The term killstealing implys that you own the kill in advance which you do not. Just my opinion.
    Maybe it's not exactly stealing. Spawns are bigger because of the large group, but the soloer gains a much higher reward from it. He profits unfairly from the work of others, which in my opinion you could call stealing. At the very least, it's unsociable behaviour which should be fixed.

    I think the mechanic works more or less as follows. First the amount of groups which contributed towards the kill are counted. Each group gets an equal share of the reward, which is then divided among the players of the group. Hence, with a 12 man group and a soloer, the soloer gets 12 times the as high a reward as a person in the group. However, he will not be able to target all mobs so his reward in total will be a bit lower than that. (Probably it's not exactly like this, but at least it works somewhat like this and it is skewed towards the soloer)

    The rewards should work as follows: first determine the amount of groups that have contributed towards the kill. Add up the players in the groups that were close enough to the kill. Divide the reward evenly among these players. That would be fair and promote grouping.
    Last edited by Forzah; 09-25-2013 at 04:09 AM.

  14. #74
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    The notion that a raid party has exclusive access to a public instance is pretty dumb. The soloer had every right to be there.

    If the soloer interacted with the group in a manner that defies community guidelines, that's what GM's are for. If the person was following you through multiple instances, that might qualify. That's pretty shaky ground though to stand on.

    Mabar has been around for awhile now. And the tendency of some players running solo near a large group generating spawns isn't worthy of them killing themself. Some in fact would call this a sound strategy. More spawns, more mats. For the large group, *and* for the non grouped players sharing the same PUBLIC instance.

    If you don't like that, get over it. Been that way for years. Perhaps Turbine will change that one day to quell complaints. I doubt it though...

    Grow up
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  15. #75
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    If killStealer was a scumbag, then you have a right to send him a tell of whatever you want. That's between you and him. I believe you crossed the line when you told others to send him tells. I wouldn't call that cyber bullying if Scumbag killstealer started it, but I would label it as trying to be manipulative, trying to get other people on your side.. That is just me however. Its not something i think highly of.

    It is a joke, which is totally understandable, I think it may have crossed the line with telling others to send tells..
    And specifically telling other ppl to tell him to kill himself. If you told ppl to send him tells of 'Leave us alone' That is OK.

    You telling him to Kill himself = OK
    You telling others to 'Leave us alone' = OK
    You telling others to tell him to kill himself = Not OK

  16. #76
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    My personal rule its simple

    never digit an offense in internet games...never.

    (well some wellknown guildmates can be exceptions..just for a laugh)

  17. #77
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Americans are such female cats.

    A kid is annoying a group of 12 people, even after being told to stop.
    He deserves to have a little text message on his screen telling him to **** ***.

    The need of the many outweighs the need of the one.

  18. #78
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdoguk View Post
    Have to say that this thread actually turned out to be the most life affirming I've seen on the forum for some time.

    There I jinxed it.
    <hug>

    <gives blackdoguk a beer>

    Here, drink this and feel life affirmed!

  19. #79
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    I don't get it.
    If someone was griefing me, and I told them to, say, go jump of a bridge and they did, then yay, I got rid of the griefer, what's the big deal?

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    So, I don't usually post in the forums, in fact the only other time I posted was for a trade, but I enjoy reading the conversations going on. However something happened today that really buffled me and I would like your opinions/advice on it. I was in a Mabar group, the group leader being a person I have played with often before and feel comfortable with. We had this guy that kept coming where we did the killing following us from instance to instance, you know, the really annoying type. Many of us told him in a nice way to please leave this area since he was obviously kilstealing and go at the many other empty reas of the graveyard. He answered with insults. So we were discussing him in the group and people suggested things to do to make him stop, like let him take all the aggro, or go around him and taunt, etc.

    I, always in good fun, obvious by the rest of he conversation going on and the way i engaged it, suggestedwe all send him tells saying you suck or go kill yourself or sth like that. The group leader then said no and that might actually lead him to commit suicide. I replied that i seriously doubted that someone would actually take his own life because someone told him in a video game. Then the leader sent me a tell saying I should drop the conversation or leave the group. I was really confused. I didn't want to make anyone feel bad, I was just joking, I mean my proposition on the mean tells although crude was considered funny by the majority of the group.

    Now I am just wondering whether the group leader had something like that happed to her in real life and that's why she reacted like this. I hate being a jerk and up to know, I have always tried to be kind and nice to people that are nice themselves and she always was up until this reaction. I don't know, I am just wondering whether I should apologize or just let it be. It's just that this is my kind of humor and I 've made remarks that could be considered crude in her groups or with her present many times, just never touched this particular subject. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.
    You should be lucky I wasn't in that group, I would have reported you and you would have gotten your account banned, hopefully for 10+ years, inciting such heinous tells & inciting others to those tells. Lucifer is close to you it seems.

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