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Thread: I just feel bad

  1. #41
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    For the 7th or 8th time I did not suggest we actually do it. I said imagine if we did that. And in the joke scenario the person did not suffer from severe depression. As I already said above, I would never say sth like that to anyone. But I would joke about it. One is worlds different from the other.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    I, always in good fun, obvious by the rest of he conversation going on and the way i engaged it, suggestedwe all send him tells saying you suck or go kill yourself or sth like that. The group leader then said no and that might actually lead him to commit suicide. I replied that i seriously doubted that someone would actually take his own life because someone told him in a video game.
    That you were arguing that it would be fine with the party leader in the original post makes me think you've backpedalled, but I suppose the 'I'd joke about it but not to their face' is more palatable. Don't do that either though, since in a large group of strangers the idea that one wouldn't do it even if you later clarified you were kidding is conceivable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    Right and you would have every right to ask me not to tell them in front of you and I woulld have of course complied. This is the thing though, for me this is new. I never had people that were actually offended from jokes.
    Next up, human facial cue flash cards. This thread remains horrific.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    So, I don't usually post in the forums, in fact the only other time I posted was for a trade, but I enjoy reading the conversations going on. However something happened today that really buffled me and I would like your opinions/advice on it. I was in a Mabar group, the group leader being a person I have played with often before and feel comfortable with. We had this guy that kept coming where we did the killing following us from instance to instance, you know, the really annoying type. Many of us told him in a nice way to please leave this area since he was obviously kilstealing and go at the many other empty reas of the graveyard. He answered with insults. So we were discussing him in the group and people suggested things to do to make him stop, like let him take all the aggro, or go around him and taunt, etc.

    I, always in good fun, obvious by the rest of he conversation going on and the way i engaged it, suggestedwe all send him tells saying you suck or go kill yourself or sth like that. The group leader then said no and that might actually lead him to commit suicide. I replied that i seriously doubted that someone would actually take his own life because someone told him in a video game. Then the leader sent me a tell saying I should drop the conversation or leave the group. I was really confused. I didn't want to make anyone feel bad, I was just joking, I mean my proposition on the mean tells although crude was considered funny by the majority of the group.

    Now I am just wondering whether the group leader had something like that happed to her in real life and that's why she reacted like this. I hate being a jerk and up to know, I have always tried to be kind and nice to people that are nice themselves and she always was up until this reaction. I don't know, I am just wondering whether I should apologize or just let it be. It's just that this is my kind of humor and I 've made remarks that could be considered crude in her groups or with her present many times, just never touched this particular subject. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.
    I'm a monopolar depressive, sometimes suicidal. I would never act how you described that player - clearly, not a likable person by any step of the imagination. I recommend either following the age-old mother's advice and simply ignoring them or, if it really bothered you, screenshot their insults and report them.

    Re: suicide jokes that specifically target certain individuals - not jokes in good taste. They rank with cancer jokes (and other diseases), pedophile jokes and drunk driving involving death jokes. Leave them to professional comedians.

    Depression is an invisible disease that, if you've never suffered it, you just don't understand. Normal people cannot get why people like me are, at certain points in our lives, unable to overcome our deep emotional pain - that, for me, comes for no reason that I can identify. It's just a chemical screw up in my brain (I'm sure other depressives have serious life issues and real reasons to be depressed, and maybe I do, too, but my own depression doesn't make logical sense to me. I can't work through it, I can't think through it).

    Am I going to kill myself because some internet person sends me a nasty tell? No. People I don't know just don't affect me that way. I can't speak for anyone else, though.

    But you have to ask yourself: is that who you want to be? Do you want to be a person who actively makes the world worse for others? Because "go kill yourself" sends a clear message that you aren't a person who is interested in kindness or empathy. Yet these are traits worth cultivating - they add to grace and poise, and a mature person they make.

    I disagree with all the flack you have taken on this thread. I think you're brave for asking others their opinions on these issues. I see you as asking for help in working through issues that are difficult for you - so, well done. I hope you consider the posts you've received and evaluate how you have acted in the past and will act in the future, and what kind of person you want to be.
    Last edited by Singular; 09-25-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  3. #43
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    That's very nice and all, (really well made actually) but it doesn't have anything to do with joking about it when the recipient can not even listen to you.
    Are you sure? Reread the first strip. Maybe someone in your group could be that man.
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  4. #44
    Community Member Xaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    Usually I try to look at motives with these sorts of things and try to believe the best of people.

    So your motive for coming on here and making this thread? You title it “I feel bad” and it’s a fairly respectful tone leads me to believe that you want some sort of absolution from the forum. But then you claim to know the forums so that you must know that such a thread is going to attract trolls like flies to excreta. Also why didn’t you just send a PM to the party leader since you claim to know them from around? Are you trying to put them up to a public court in the forums? And I thought this before she chimed in with the same thoughts a few posts down.

    So being trying to be charitable, my guess you are somewhat peeved at this party leader and this is a way to gently punish them. Also, you don’t understand the magnitude of what you’ve made fun of. It could be nothing, or could be the final little pebble to start an avalanche on it’s way to destruction. You don’t know the gravity of your words. And after all, in this virtual reality we have here, they can have a weight that we can’t see.

    Or it could be nothing. And this thread is just entertainment for the mockers.
    I did not actually reveal names or anything, I came in the forums and asked a question about sth that happened in game. How do you put someone in public court when you don't say name or guild? I did not send a PM exactly because I did not know how to handle such a scenario. Please realize that I have absolutely no experience with such situations, which from the replies quite a few people seem to share. Not having any other way to engage in what happened I decided to use the forums after 3 years of not doing so.

    I was not trying to punish anyone, I was actually surprised she saw the thread. As for the trolls I can just ignore them and only keep meaningful responses like yours. Your input made me rething the reason I posted and I think you might be right on the fact that posting on the forums was perhaps a hasty decision. However I learned quite a few things for both the game and rl from the replies, so I can't say i regret posting it.

  5. #45
    Community Member Xaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Are you sure? Reread the first strip. Maybe someone in your group could be that man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Right.



    Don't do that either though, since in a large group of strangers the idea that one wouldn't do it even if you later clarified you were kidding is conceivable.


    I never thought of those possibilities. Thank you for sharing them, they are absolutely sth that will make me thing twice before using such jokes in a crowd of people I dont know again.

  6. #46
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Suicide shouldn't be something you joke about.

    Should of just told that guy to go f*** himself so if he did take your advice it would not be something out of the norm.

    Telling someone to go kill themselves is just........I don't see whats funny about it, and I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy.
    And so mast[censored]ion is something to joke about?!?

    (jk)

  7. #47
    Community Member Xaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    I'm a monopolar depressive, sometimes suicidal. I would never act how you described that player - clearly, not a likable person by any step of the imagination. I recommend either following the age-old mother's advice and simply ignoring them or, if it really bothered you, screenshot their insults and report them.

    Re: suicide jokes that specifically target certain individuals - not jokes in good taste. They rank with cancer jokes (and other diseases), pedophile jokes and drunk driving involving death jokes. Leave them to professional comedians.

    Depression is an invisible disease that, if you've never suffered it, you just don't understand. Normal people cannot get why people like me are, at certain points in our lives, unable to overcome our deep emotional pain - that, for me, comes for no reason that I can identify. It's just a chemical screw up in my brain (I'm sure other depressives have serious life issues and real reasons to be depressed, and maybe I do, too, but my own depression doesn't make logical sense to me. I can't work through it, I can't think through it).

    Am I going to kill myself because some internet person sends me a nasty tell? No. People I don't know just don't affect me that way. I can't speak for anyone else, though.

    But you have to ask yourself: is that who you want to be? Do you want to be a person who actively makes the world worse for others? Because "go kill yourself" sends a clear message that you aren't a person who is interested in kindness or empathy. Yet these are traits worth cultivating - they add to grace and poise, and a mature person they make.

    I disagree with all the flack you have taken on this thread. I think you're brave for asking others their opinions on these issues. I see you as asking for help in working through issues that are difficult for you - so, well done. I hope you consider the posts you've received and evaluate how you have acted in the past and will act in the future, and what kind of person you want to be.
    Thank you for this very warm hearted post.

    What you just illustrated and the examples the other 2 forumites presented really made me rethink the way I acted. Even though I thought no one was hurt, someone might have taken the joke literally and actually harm another person, or someone in the group might have psychological problems himself and get unessarily hurt over crude humor. And even if none of those were true I was cultivating a general negativity. Thanks for all your insight.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    I did not actually reveal names or anything, I came in the forums and asked a question about sth that happened in game. How do you put someone in public court when you don't say name or guild? I did not send a PM exactly because I did not know how to handle such a scenario. Please realize that I have absolutely no experience with such situations, which from the replies quite a few people seem to share. Not having any other way to engage in what happened I decided to use the forums after 3 years of not doing so.

    I was not trying to punish anyone, I was actually surprised she saw the thread. As for the trolls I can just ignore them and only keep meaningful responses like yours. Your input made me rething the reason I posted and I think you might be right on the fact that posting on the forums was perhaps a hasty decision. However I learned quite a few things for both the game and rl from the replies, so I can't say i regret posting it.
    That is a gracious reply. Fair call for typing it. Like you I slip up around here (and hear about it for months afterwards).

    My guess is that you've been lucky enough in life (so far) not to have been exposed to much in the way of depression in yourself or those you love. That you've not yet been to funerals of friends and watched their parents bury their child. It's fairly sobering. While I'm a huge advocate for humour for everything even in the worst of situations, timing and appropriateness is key.
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  9. #49
    Community Member Xaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    That is a gracious reply. Fair call for typing it. Like you I slip up around here (and hear about it for months afterwards).

    My guess is that you've been lucky enough in life (so far) not to have been exposed to much in the way of depression in yourself or those you love. That you've not yet been to funerals of friends and watched their parents bury their child. It's fairly sobering. While I'm a huge advocate for humour for everything even in the worst of situations, timing and appropriateness is key.
    I have indeed been lucky and have never experienced such situations. I will take your advice and apply etiquette to my comments in the future, I suspect it will be a good filter for my sense of humor and perhaps a less negative way of reacting to situations.

    Thank you for your advice.

  10. #50
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    Thank you for this very warm hearted post.

    What you just illustrated and the examples the other 2 forumites presented really made me rethink the way I acted. Even though I thought no one was hurt, someone might have taken the joke literally and actually harm another person, or someone in the group might have psychological problems himself and get unessarily hurt over crude humor. And even if none of those were true I was cultivating a general negativity. Thanks for all your insight.
    It's all good. Some of us learn the hard way - I made some nasty jokes when I was a young waiter. It was the pain I saw on some people's faces that caused me to entirely stop stepping on dangerous territory. Now I just stick to drug and sex jokes, maybe the odd religious joke.

  11. #51
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaris View Post
    Right and you would have every right to ask me not to tell them in front of you and I woulld have of course complied. This is the thing though, for me this is new. I never had people that were actually offended from jokes. I am glad that I now know that some people can and this is the general message i get from the thread, don't joke in large groups about things some people might get upset about.
    Well then I guess your lucky/unlucky I have had to deal with all sorts of different people throughout my life, different ages, nationalities, cultures, on the internet your not going to be sure 100% who is in your group, so you have to be keep that in mind, and I have been guilty of maybe telling inappropriate jokes when I wasn't 100% sure there where no kids or whatever in the group. You have to be considerate of others, what might be the norm for you might be offensive for others and theirs might be offensive to you. No you can joke about whatever the hell you want, but there might be consequences, some might get offended or whatever, just don't be shocked that people might have a different sense of humour or values to you that's how it is.

    There are some things I will joke about with certain people that I would never joke about with others..........like my parents, old people, elders whatever, my mates my own age are the ones I would most likely cover the widest range of joke material with. You never know what might turn out to be a Faux pas.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 09-25-2013 at 01:50 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by susiedupfer View Post
    Well, since I happen to be the leader, let me suggest you go Google "Cyber bullying and teen suicide"
    Very good. Apathy is getting all too prevalent these days. Ppl got to be reminded that gamers come to this game to have fun, not to be yelled at, bullied and so on.

    +1

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pleasegimmie View Post
    Actually, that's letting the weak win. Better to engage PC BS head on.
    On this issue, if people off themselves because of internet interaction, it proves mental instability and a generally defective state, so the rest of humanity is well served by all the suicides.
    After all, humans are grossly overpopulated anyway, so a few less here and there isn't even statisticaly significant, but culling the weak is a worthy goal, and natural.

    who are you to say what is weak and what is strong?

    so by your reasoning - 9/11 was ok? because, thats not statistically significant.

    The green killer is actually good then because he is helping to weed out the weak, right?

    or what about, o say, the holocaust? that should be significant right.....



    I mean, ya technically you are right, but you are also wrong. You have to look at the big picture man. what if in the messed up brain of one of those suicides you write off is a cure for cancer? or the father of someone who will bring world peace (yes long shot, but gimmie a break!)

    i guess what im saying is that you have the right to say what you want to say and do what you want to do, but im glad i have the right to not deal with you.

    /shrug

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  14. #54
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Never done mabar, but i imagine there are at least some rules on the intentional kill stealing that an ingame GM would be able to enforce. I know in other games contacting a GM is the way to go on such things. Had the group followed your suggestion i suspect lots of you would have been reported and removed from the game, and if you weren't for such an action you (or anyone who does that) should be.

    As for your original post if you ever have issues with a group leaders decision the best place to discuss that is with them in private. What might you intend as a question might be perceived as criticism of their leadership and could come across as insulting, especially when done publicly.
    There are no rules, you're just SoL if it happens to you. This kind of thing goes on a lot in open world games, which is one reason I like the quest system here, it absolutely cannot happen, except during events like Mabar, where public areas are "transformed" into open world mob fests. I had plenty of, for lack of a better word, leechers on my cleric when I tried to run it in there. I'd turn a crowd, and commence to finishing off what didn't outright die, only to find some paladin, or rogue, knocking off the last bit of HP. My solution is to just bail on the event. I went back on a different level range, on my acrobat, with it's ghost bane staff, and laughed at the morons that tried to last hit me. It's all you can do.

    On topic: The "joke" wasn't funny. The assumption that "it takes a lot blah blah" is unfounded, since you don't know anything about that person. The problem with your petty little philosophy is that you don't know if the straw you throw onto his/her back is the one that breaks it or not. I don't go out of my way to be PC, in fact, the general consensus around here is that I'm something of a ****, but that's the way I am to somebody's face. Online, what's the point? I'm already stressed out from all the people I didn't choke the **** out of, even though they desperately needed it. There's no sense in letting somebody else's immature behavior drive me to immaturity.

  15. #55
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    You know what I find really funny about some people who get all ZOMG!!! SO SICK OF THIS PC BS!!!!!!!!! Is when something offends them and they complain bitterly about it, then I say hey wait a minute you where just complaining about other people complaining about people not respecting *their* values but its ok for you to complain about people not respecting yours? Man then it goes round and round is circles.....so what your really saying is your values are the only ones that matter?...........I get a yes/no your going off the subject. Sorry I know it probably doesn't apply to the people posting here but iv'e come across a bit of it in RL and these people pretty much feel they have a right to say and do whatever they want and if other people get offended well those people are wrong, or too sensitive, but at the same time they expect to be treated with the outmost respect and for *everyone* they come across to immediately know their values/customs automatically, and they are often the worst for sulking, bit**ing about this and that, people being rude or different.

    Yes I know too much PC can be annoying especially when its just for the sake of being PC, but PC really should be a two way street.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2pleasegimmie View Post
    Say - how about you go take some college courses on logic and rhetoric, and look up "logical fallacy" - then come back and reread your post objectively. Assuming humans haven't finished destroying the planet before you finish, of course.
    How about you go to war and maybe see first hand the trash you spout.. I think some things are uncalled for and you Crossed that line.. No one is not needed in the world. May be ask your Parents why you are still here and not in some back ally dumpster???? I'm sure they can Clue you in.. Or maybe not.. As I don't know them..

  17. #57
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    By go kill yourself you mean type /death?

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    Default I guess I would disagree with the majority

    1. lets say the whole group ignored the 'stalker'. the stalker turns out to be depressive and kills himself because no one accepted him into the party or talked to him

    2. lets say you meet a woman in real life and really like her hair. You complement how lovely her hair is. Turns out she had cancer, chemotherapy and wears a wig.
    She starts crying, rips off her wig goes home and kills herself.

    3 suppose there is a teenage boy who kills his whole family because his mother interrupted him playing GTA, and everyone blames video game creators.

    I do not see anything wrong with what Xaris wanted to do. in his case the 'stalker' was the bully and the party being bullied aka the victim.
    it is natural and understandable to want to defend oneself. even if the joke is crude inappropriate and I wouldn't use it.
    my bottom line would be, there is no way to foresee every possible offensive situation. there are too many possible interactions and factors.
    even if You decide you do not want to offend anyone anymore and choose to not speak again, you may offend someone who found your silence offensive.
    putting blame on other people is silly.

    teenage suicide and internet bullying is not relevant here.
    Xaris' suggestion would not be bullying, the stalker was the bully, and you are not responsible for lack of maturity or mental health of others.
    at least this is what I believe.

    EDIT
    having said that, the only things you shouldnt say are things that break DDO chat rules or break the teamleader's rules IF he/she states any and You dont want to be kicked out.
    other than that, its fair game to me
    Last edited by shirochan57; 09-25-2013 at 03:34 AM.

  19. #59
    Community Member Melt-emi's Avatar
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    It's nice how most people here jumped on the white horse saying "Yo, telling people to suicide is bad and you should feel bad, monster", just reading it made me feel bad for the OP... You are applying on him the same pressure he wanted to apply on that person, in a different way, with different words, but the same bad atmosphere pushing him into a corner. (And it's the feeling of being pushed into a corner by events that makes people sucidde, not the words "Go suicide")

    There are different ways to jump on the white horse, you can do it like a ****** or in a proper manner. What some of you are doing here is the same thing he wanted to do with that guy, the only difference is that in the end he did nothing but thinking about it.
    Last edited by Melt-emi; 09-25-2013 at 03:38 AM. Reason: added part between (...)

  20. #60
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    better to jump on the red one, that way youre honest about it.
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