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  1. #1
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Default Half elf- a dead race

    Helf is not a free race. I guess that turbine is interested in selling it. But U19 have killed the race. Half-elves have nothing special outside his dilettante. Humans are a superior race: more skill points, a feat of free choice, better and easier access to healing amplification. What is unique and special to Helf, which makes it useful, is its unique capabilities of dilettante. The basic dilettante feat is garbage- we need improve it with APs. The improved dilettante can be very useful- the helf is popular for this improved dilettante.

    But now those dilettantes have excessive costs. I tried to use them after U19, but the cost is excessive and often prohibitive. The dilettante has almost doubled his cost and with the new mechanical (points invested in tree, not in total), 17 APs is prohibitive.

    Today I would not buy this race. I do not recommend to anyone to buy it. Today is a subpar race and everything that it gives, human gives it better. Turbine, please. You are killing a payment option. You are hurting your sales. Fix the dilettante cost, because today this race is not practical!
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  2. #2

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    Personally I think the race got better. Gives my helf Air Savant a real boost between dragon mark of storm and FVS Dilettante (self heal and extra spell power). Everytime I use my action boost I now get extra stat points (what's not to like about that?).

  3. #3
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    If this change results in fewer creepy, androgynous helfs and fewer times i have to see that dance, i support it

  4. #4
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    Personally I think the race got better. Gives my helf Air Savant a real boost between dragon mark of storm and FVS Dilettante (self heal and extra spell power). Everytime I use my action boost I now get extra stat points (what's not to like about that?).
    Human tree gives extra stat points with stat boost in TIER ONE- Helf boost is in TIER
    THREE. Human is waaaay better now than helf.

    Dilettante is not a dragonmark. Spending outside of caster trees will lower your spellpower. 8 AP for the dragonmark and 12 for dilettante (more one for core 1) are 21 Aps. If you invest these 21 Aps in savant trees are 15 universal power and more sorcerer goodies. You obtain 6 spellpower of dilettante and +25 electric spellpower only when you take electrical damage from a spell (meh!!!! Situational) If you are happy good but it is not a good trade. With the high charisma of a sorcerer you should can UMD any scroll—fvs dilettante is useless for sorcerer.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  5. #5
    Community Member cupajoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Human tree gives extra stat points with stat boost in TIER ONE- Helf boost is in TIER
    THREE. Human is waaaay better now than helf.

    Dilettante is not a dragonmark. Spending outside of caster trees will lower your spellpower. 8 AP for the dragonmark and 12 for dilettante (more one for core 1) are 21 Aps. If you invest these 21 Aps in savant trees are 15 universal power and more sorcerer goodies. You obtain 6 spellpower of dilettante and +25 electric spellpower only when you take electrical damage from a spell (meh!!!! Situational) If you are happy good but it is not a good trade. With the high charisma of a sorcerer you should can UMD any scroll—fvs dilettante is useless for sorcerer.
    While I agree that the increased cost of dilettante lessens the appeal. I still find that a Helf can make an ok rogue. There is some synergy with UMD casting and the Arti dilly. Oh and Helf bluff/diplo on separate timers from the standard bluff/diplo is nice. I do think that other races (human for the extra feat, easy access to healing amp or halfling for the extra sneak dice) are great as rogues but a helf makes it a little easier to be self sufficient with scrolls and to maintain sneak attacks with extra bluff/diplo feats. I guess it kinda depends on how you like to play.

    Oh and Helf's are creepy ugly and would sell better if they came with a free hat skin called "Paper Bag".

  6. #6
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    Too many APs to get dilly to top tier. Rather go human now.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Human tree gives extra stat points with stat boost in TIER ONE- Helf boost is in TIER
    THREE. Human is waaaay better now than helf.

    Dilettante is not a dragonmark. Spending outside of caster trees will lower your spellpower. 8 AP for the dragonmark and 12 for dilettante (more one for core 1) are 21 Aps. If you invest these 21 Aps in savant trees are 15 universal power and more sorcerer goodies. You obtain 6 spellpower of dilettante and +25 electric spellpower only when you take electrical damage from a spell (meh!!!! Situational) If you are happy good but it is not a good trade. With the high charisma of a sorcerer you should can UMD any scroll—fvs dilettante is useless for sorcerer.
    with fvs dilettante I can spend less on UMD and more on other skills. You just can't scroll heal and rez at lvl 12 on UMD alone (at least on a first Lifer) you have too much of a failure rate to pull it off well. Dragon mark of storm is just icing on the cake (free spells and +25 Electrical Spell Power, and you gain 10 temporary spell points any time you take electrical damage from a spell. You also gain +2 bonus to Reflex save). As long as I stay pure, take capestone, and Elemental Diversification my spell power will just fine. I have a human Air Savant of the same level and he just does not hit as hard and not as good at self healing. While his extra Healing Amplification and Greater Heroism are nice. I don't have many orbs and don't often use staffs till higher levels the spell power boost is useless to me (seeing how you must be using one of the two to get the bonus.) Yes making the AP cost a little cheaper would be nice, but that alone does not kill the race.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Too many APs to get dilly to top tier. Rather go human now.
    this. All of my half elves are currently awaiting a tr into human, or anything but helf. aPs are better spent elsewhere then on dilettante. ThE entire appeal of helf has been killed with the pass.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    this. All of my half elves are currently awaiting a tr into human, or anything but helf. aPs are better spent elsewhere then on dilettante. ThE entire appeal of helf has been killed with the pass.
    Exactly. The points are better spent elsewhere; my half-elves have either changed races now, or will be doing so soon.

    Thank you SOOOOOO much Turbine, for breaking yet another thing I've spent my money on.

    (ie: warforged, challenges, shall we go on......)

    I guess the devs only want everyone to be monks, monks, monks, and have no interest in selling ANY other race or class.

  10. #10
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Helf is not a free race. I guess that turbine is interested in selling it. But U19 have killed the race. Half-elves have nothing special outside his dilettante. Humans are a superior race: more skill points, a feat of free choice, better and easier access to healing amplification. What is unique and special to Helf, which makes it useful, is its unique capabilities of dilettante. The basic dilettante feat is garbage- we need improve it with APs. The improved dilettante can be very useful- the helf is popular for this improved dilettante.

    But now those dilettantes have excessive costs. I tried to use them after U19, but the cost is excessive and often prohibitive. The dilettante has almost doubled his cost and with the new mechanical (points invested in tree, not in total), 17 APs is prohibitive.

    Today I would not buy this race. I do not recommend to anyone to buy it. Today is a subpar race and everything that it gives, human gives it better. Turbine, please. You are killing a payment option. You are hurting your sales. Fix the dilettante cost, because today this race is not practical!
    It costs the same 17 APs for a human to get that 30% healing amp you're saying is better.

    What's your point? Oh yeah, you want to pay2win! Got it.

  11. #11
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cupajoe View Post
    While I agree that the increased cost of dilettante lessens the appeal. I still find that a Helf can make an ok rogue. There is some synergy with UMD casting and the Arti dilly. Oh and Helf bluff/diplo on separate timers from the standard bluff/diplo is nice. I do think that other races (human for the extra feat, easy access to healing amp or halfling for the extra sneak dice) are great as rogues but a helf makes it a little easier to be self sufficient with scrolls and to maintain sneak attacks with extra bluff/diplo feats. I guess it kinda depends on how you like to play.

    Oh and Helf's are creepy ugly and would sell better if they came with a free hat skin called "Paper Bag".
    Uff I tried the arti dilly for my acrobat but the human feat would give me +3 to umd instead to +2. +1 CL is garbage and you have to spend too many points for obtain only +1 CL for all items (you don't obtain +4 CL, only +1 CL but with more items!). The points are better spent in class trees now (to obtain the scroll mastery in the mechanic tree is not cheap for assasin o acrobat. Too many points to spread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Catteras View Post
    this. All of my half elves are currently awaiting a tr into human, or anything but helf. aPs are better spent elsewhere then on dilettante. ThE entire appeal of helf has been killed with the pass.
    Sad but true. My halfelves will be humans soon.
    Last edited by Iriale; 09-24-2013 at 08:11 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  12. #12
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It costs the same 17 APs for a human to get that 30% healing amp you're saying is better.

    What's your point? Oh yeah, you want to pay2win! Got it.
    My point is that turbine is killing his own sales. Very few people will buy the race now. With human you obtain a free feat and skill points. With halfelf you obtain a dilly feat that now is almost useless and a second bluff with a loooooong cooldown (don’t worth) Human is more useful, why buy a subpar race?

    The second tier of halfelf healing amp has the same cost than third tier of human. Helf don’t have nothing better than human. The only thing different, the dilettante, is now absurdly overprized. Last tier of healing amplification have been expensive always . That said, I have always advocated that for the racial tree the requisite should be “total points spent and toon level” and not “points spent in the tree”, and that to implement the system of “points spent in the tree” to the races was very restrictive. But it has nothing to do: if you do not spend a single point on the racial tree, human is still a great race. If you do not improve the half-elf dilettante you have a devalued human with less skill points and a feat very poor compared with the free choice of human.

    In other words, without a way to cheaply improve the dilettante half-elf race is pure rubbish beside the human. I do not want a super race. I want a race as good as the human! No more, no less. And yes, I appeal to the desire of a merchant that its merchandise is selled - I hope that this help to fix the mistake soon.


    Quote Originally Posted by EnziteBob View Post
    with fvs dilettante I can spend less on UMD and more on other skills. You just can't scroll heal and rez at lvl 12 on UMD alone (at least on a first Lifer) you have too much of a failure rate to pull it off well. Dragon mark of storm is just icing on the cake (free spells and +25 Electrical Spell Power, and you gain 10 temporary spell points any time you take electrical damage from a spell. You also gain +2 bonus to Reflex save). As long as I stay pure, take capestone, and Elemental Diversification my spell power will just fine. I have a human Air Savant of the same level and he just does not hit as hard and not as good at self healing. While his extra Healing Amplification and Greater Heroism are nice. I don't have many orbs and don't often use staffs till higher levels the spell power boost is useless to me (seeing how you must be using one of the two to get the bonus.) Yes making the AP cost a little cheaper would be nice, but that alone does not kill the race.
    Wait to epics and you will understand me. Believe me, don't worth the many action points you have invested there.
    Last edited by Iriale; 09-24-2013 at 08:26 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It costs the same 17 APs for a human to get that 30% healing amp you're saying is better.

    What's your point? Oh yeah, you want to pay2win! Got it.
    Depends largely on what class/splits, but I don't even like the AP cost of Human Hamp either.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubbinns View Post
    Depends largely on what class/splits, but I don't even like the AP cost of Human Hamp either.
    Yup. I mostly ignore racial enhancement trees now, even human healing amp. So expensive when there is really good stuff in class trees.

    Human is now my prefered class (unless i am a artie, sorc, or wizard, then it is warforged) because the extra feat is free and i get an extra skill point per level. With the change to heal, spellcraft, and repair skills, that extra skill point comes in very handy!

    I agree that for racial trees points spent in tree should be changed to total points spent and character level. Anything that makes it reasonable to spend points in a racial tree would be great.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    why buy a subpar race?
    They have the best taunt emote in the game

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It costs the same 17 APs for a human to get that 30% healing amp you're saying is better.
    Human gets Fighting Style: Traditionalist Caster: +3/+6/+10 Universal Spell Power when wielding an Orb or Staff.

    U19 took half-elves from being one of my favorite races to build with... to not being a good fit for any of my builds.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Unless you have no swap 39 umd, cleric /fvs dilly is still awesome, I would be dead many times if I would have to rely on cocoon only. And that's on basically permadisplaced, 25 dodge, shadowfaded ranged toon.

    Curing countless stat drains, scrolling someone else in pinch, TS ...

    With 40+ standing umd, other races are better probably.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  18. #18
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    I'm fine with less elves in the game to be honest maybe turbine will stop adding more and more elf variants (were up to 4 now and no one likes any of em) and actually give us something we want like Tinker Gnomes or Paragon Kobolds (Lesser Aasimar and Tieflings would also be acceptable)

    That said between Pally dilettante and power of the storm H-Elves make fantastic Air Savant Sorcs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  19. #19
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    I'm not happy with elf dillie on my ranger now. I have to pay 2 AP for +2 to sneak attack to-hit rolls, THEN get access to the extra 1d6 sneak attack damage. It's like they put that in just to make it more expensive. I don't need extra to-hit bonuses, even if I weren't a fourth-life TR, there are ALOT of stacking to-hit bonuses, and I think they stack with the to-hit bonuses to sneak attacks, which already have a +2 due to being a sneak attack. lol

  20. #20
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    This is indeed sad. I have several half elf characters, and every single one of them are now in the queue to be TRed just because it is now a terrible racial choice for them. Would have been nice if we could have taken a race change token rather than the +20 LR heart.

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