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  1. #41
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHost View Post
    This is not working as intended then. You can see this quickly by buying a teleporter and a few torches, then dropping down off the bridge immediately in front of the camp. Set up the teleporter for them to come down, and make a line about 3 (or 4, depending on how you place) out from the teleporter, up the ramp that starts leading back to the camp. The shortest path back is clearly for them to go back to the teleporter, but once they start collecting crystals about 2 and a half 'maximum torch lengths' away they will choose to walk all the way back to the camp, up the long winding road and around several side areas, rather than taking the 4 second walk back to the teleporter; unless they pass by a teleporter as they are going.
    This actually is working as intended. If you have noticed in the past even when teleporters where working, if the kobolds went about 3 torches lengths from a teleporter they would "forget" about the teleport unless it is on the path back they are taking to the camp anyway.

    For example, in the Lava Caves, if you drop down the right side from the main bridge to the north. There was often a circle of power and purple crystals here.

    If there is a circle of power before the sliver of lava and you run the line, to the east without a teleporter. After about 2 1/2-3 torches they would collect crystals and then try heading east to climb the ramp and path all the way back to the center.

    However if you run the line west and the north into the sloping down ramp, once they collect they still have "forgotten" about the teleporter. They just happen to head up the ramp and then go east to follow that same path up to the center. The teleporter happens to be in their way so they will then use the teleporter.

    Another case in point in the Lava Caves. Go to center bridge and FF to the other bridge down to the west/left. If you drop the line from the circle of power north along the bridge they will turn around heading towards the teleporter. If you drop the line south up the spiral ramp, after 2-3 torches they will continue heading up the ramp.

    So when they use the tele when running the line north they only use it cause they run into it on the way back up the spiral ramp since they have "forgetten" about the teleporter.

    This is something I have always had to keep in mind when dropping a line, and considering a DD or 2nd teleporter before I string out a line too much.

    The kobolds have never really run in the "shortest path" but they are always looking to get back to the center/foreman. I think they go to teleporters only with line of site, which considering how short the site is for cyrstals they seem to be very short sited.

    Maybe it is time we have the option for a glasses powerup or buff for the kobolds. =)
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  2. #42
    Community Member alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    Yeah, definite inconvenience, but completion is still possible. Would rather have less than none.
    Well, actually it's a REAL problem for higher level characters - especially the over-25's that are getting penalized already with reduced rewards.
    You might think "yeah, but you should already have your gear", but I still run them for Tokens of the 12 and Elixirs.

    My question is this: why was anybody messing with that anyway? I wasn't aware that there was something of high priority that needed to be fixed. The only real bug I've seen in the challenges lately was the crests laying on the floor of Rushmore's observatory room rather than being held in the puzzle's bubbles.

  3. #43
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzermeyer View Post
    This actually is working as intended. If you have noticed in the past even when teleporters where working, if the kobolds went about 3 torches lengths from a teleporter they would "forget" about the teleport unless it is on the path back they are taking to the camp anyway.
    It might be working as intended, but it is not working as detailed in the rules because we are meant to be able to guide the Kobolds back to the Foreman.

    If the Kobolds ignore the rules and torches, there's no way we can guide them, and we're left relying on an unpredictable Kobold AI with no way of knowing what 'Shortest' route they will take, or when the shortest route will suddenly change from a cleared safe area, to one which is hip deep in Hostile mobs.

  4. #44
    Community Member alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Kobolds can't see Crystals, Barrels or Teleporters much further away than one maximum torch length.
    ...but apparently they can calculate the shortest distance home over an unknown route, which somehow overcomes their amazing olfactory senses.

  5. #45
    Community Member alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    ...but apparently they can calculate the shortest distance home over an unknown route, which somehow overcomes their amazing olfactory senses.
    Oh snap - I forgot that the union had issued these to every worker...


  6. #46
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    While looking for Crystals, they will follow the layout you've provided with torches. After they have filled all their barrels with Crystals, they will look for the shortest path home from where they're standing, even if that's not along your torch line. If you have teleporters along your torch line, that may make that route effectively shorter, but the Kobolds don't know that - They'll take the shortest land route, stopping for teleporters only if they see them.

    The current bug has them ignoring Teleporters (and Dimension Doors) outright, which is not working as intended; a fix has been completed internally, and once it has been run past QA will be scheduled for release. We are aware that this impacts the difficulty of these Challenges significantly, and are looking to get the fix out as soon as we can. Thanks!
    Any chance of including a Quality of Life fix/hack for torch running as well, to address accidental deletion of torches/teleporters/barrels? Exploding crystals, unintentional climbing and various other things have been erasing these placeable items from existence during attempts to place them ever since the first Crystal Cove event was launched. Since a proper fix (removing these items from the inventory IFF they are successfully placed in the environment) has not been issued in all that time, I think we'd all appreciate a quick'n'dirty hack to address the problem: make these items all instant-cast, such that they cannot be interrupted and thusly erased from existence by accident. Please.

  7. #47
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    Well, actually it's a REAL problem for higher level characters - especially the over-25's that are getting penalized already with reduced rewards.
    You might think "yeah, but you should already have your gear", but I still run them for Tokens of the 12 and Elixirs.
    I was thinking no such thing. The only thing I was thinking was please don't close it. This sucks, but we can work around it, closing it makes us lose everything, instead of just most of it. I know it is a problem. I know it sucks. But it being closed would suck even more, and that is all I was arguing against. They should hurry up and fix it without closing the quest.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    ...but apparently they can calculate the shortest distance home over an unknown route, which somehow overcomes their amazing olfactory senses.
    I always got the feeling that this is essentially the kobolds' home, or at least where they spend most of their time, and they know every square inch of the place like the back of their hand. Thus, no matter where they are they already know the shortest route back to the foreman.

  9. #49
    Community Member alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I always got the feeling that this is essentially the kobolds' home, or at least where they spend most of their time, and they know every square inch of the place like the back of their hand. Thus, no matter where they are they already know the shortest route back to the foreman.
    Kobold Union Rules:
    1. Kobold Union workers are paid to haul crystals to home base. Union workers are not paid to think.
    2. Kobold Union workers must remain within 20 paces of Safety Incense Torches at all times.

    (Obviously Rule 2 would not apply if you remove the torches, but otherwise, this 'take shortest route home' behavior violates their own rules!)

  10. #50
    Community Member alancarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    I was thinking no such thing. The only thing I was thinking was please don't close it. This sucks, but we can work around it, closing it makes us lose everything, instead of just most of it. I know it is a problem. I know it sucks. But it being closed would suck even more, and that is all I was arguing against. They should hurry up and fix it without closing the quest.
    Absolutely agree.

  11. #51
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    Kobold Union Rules:
    1. Kobold Union workers are paid to haul crystals to home base. Union workers are not paid to think.
    2. Kobold Union workers must remain within 20 paces of Safety Incense Torches at all times.

    (Obviously Rule 2 would not apply if you remove the torches, but otherwise, this 'take shortest route home' behavior violates their own rules!)
    Rule 2 also does not apply if there happens to be a lion nearby .... or a wolf .... or a shaman ... or wizard .... or cloud gaint .... or mephit .... or .....
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

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  12. #52
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    Thanks Steelstar! Nice to know a fix is ready. Would be nicer to know when as I happen to be farming mats for an epic belt right now, and just last night finished farming mats for my friends bracers, which took much longer than it should have due to this bug. It's also hard not to notice that a bug that favor's the player gets fixed in 2 days, and a bug that kills the players can take 6-8 months.

    Steelstar, can you comment on if/when we might see level 24 (and maybe 28?) equipment from these challenges? Or from Cove? Mabar got 24, is it getting 28 this time around?

  13. #53
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    I was working on getting the Epic enhancements for my items from the Traders. These can no longer be gotten with the failure of these challenges. LOL. The Circles of Power are all broken and all the
    Extraplaner Mining. That is 11 of the Cannith Challenges. LOL. Wonder how soon they will get fixed? LOL

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by alancarp View Post
    Kobold Union Rules:
    1. Kobold Union workers are paid to haul crystals to home base. Union workers are not paid to think.
    2. Kobold Union workers must remain within 20 paces of Safety Incense Torches at all times.

    (Obviously Rule 2 would not apply if you remove the torches, but otherwise, this 'take shortest route home' behavior violates their own rules!)
    As chaotic as kobolds generally are, does it really surprise anyone they're not following their own rules?

  15. #55
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DunkleNymphe View Post
    As chaotic as kobolds generally are, does it really surprise anyone they're not following their own rules?
    Kobold
    Alignment: Usually Lawful Evil

  16. #56
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    omg...now how am i suppose to tr T_T

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    While looking for Crystals, they will follow the layout you've provided with torches. After they have filled all their barrels with Crystals, they will look for the shortest path home from where they're standing, even if that's not along your torch line. If you have teleporters along your torch line, that may make that route effectively shorter, but the Kobolds don't know that - They'll take the shortest land route, stopping for teleporters only if they see them.

    The current bug has them ignoring Teleporters (and Dimension Doors) outright, which is not working as intended; a fix has been completed internally, and once it has been run past QA will be scheduled for release. We are aware that this impacts the difficulty of these Challenges significantly, and are looking to get the fix out as soon as we can. Thanks!
    Thanks, We appreciate your hard work and hope to see the fix soon

    And thank you for the prompt info...

  18. #58
    Community Member Panzermeyer's Avatar
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    Default Tomorrow's Fix

    Anyone know if tomorrow's fix is going to address the teleporter problem with the challenges?
    Panzermeyer - Huge Terry Brooks Shannara Fan

    Main
    Jelara Shannara - PDK
    Steel Shrine (TR XX - Barb x3, Drd x3, FvS x3, Pal x2, Rgr x1, Rog x2, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR X - Arc x3, Div x2, Mart x3, Prim x3 - ItR II - PDK x2)
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    DamsonRhee Shannara - PDK Swashbuckler
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    Eritria Shannara - Human Swashbuckler
    (TR VII - Ftr x3, Sorc x1, Wiz x3 EtR - Prim x1)
    Kirisin Shannara - Sun Elf Shadovar Infiltrator (TR XIV - Barb x1, Bard x1, Clc x3, Fvs x3, Sorc x3, Wiz x3 - EtR V - Mart x2, Div x3 - ItR - MLE x1)


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