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  1. #1
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Default am i missing something?

    hmm ranger, monk and many other class with sneak attack have abilities to renders their enemy vulnerable to sneak attacks... while rogue don't have any?? i double check several times still find nothing relate to sneak attack... am i missing something? i tried bluff, but doesn't last as long with a long cool down... improve feint seem to be bugged?

    p.s. monk ability- Unbalancing Strike, ranger ability- Sniper Shot, Exposing Strike

  2. #2
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Deception+improved deception items will do it for you. Not perfect, but oh well. (And bluff is fine)

  3. #3
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Deception+improved deception items will do it for you. Not perfect, but oh well. (And bluff is fine)
    so rogue, the class of sneak attack.. have nothing regarding sneak attacking in their enhancement tree... hmm thats really... surprise

  4. #4
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    so rogue, the class of sneak attack.. have nothing regarding sneak attacking in their enhancement tree... hmm thats really... surprise
    I never had an issue with it, not sure why anyone would..
    Nor do I think anyone uses unbalancing strike. Ever.

  5. #5
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Nor do I think anyone uses unbalancing strike. Ever.
    I used it constantly on both my pure dark monk, and on my mains last life(11Ranger/6Monk/3Arti). It's extremely useful, I don't know why you wouldn't use it...
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  6. #6
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    Shadow Dagger: Throw a dagger made of solidified shadows at your enemy. Deals 4d8/6d8/8d8 unholy damage and blinds the target (Fort DC 10/14/18 + half Rogue level + Int modifier Negates blindness).

    That's the only ability that makes an enemy sneakattackable when you have its attention, which gives them the same number as the other classes. These kinds of abilities only really matter when you're soloing, as you could get sneak attacks in a group simply by not being the first into combat and having threat reduction, hence why they're fairly sparse.

    There's also far more to sneak attacking than just this, like reducing fortification or giving sneak attack die.

  7. #7
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirun View Post
    Shadow Dagger: Throw a dagger made of solidified shadows at your enemy. Deals 4d8/6d8/8d8 unholy damage and blinds the target (Fort DC 10/14/18 + half Rogue level + Int modifier Negates blindness).

    That's the only ability that makes an enemy sneakattackable when you have its attention, which gives them the same number as the other classes. These kinds of abilities only really matter when you're soloing, as you could get sneak attacks in a group simply by not being the first into combat and having threat reduction, hence why they're fairly sparse.

    There's also far more to sneak attacking than just this, like reducing fortification or giving sneak attack die.
    sigh... thats int base.. my acrobat is dex base..



    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    I never had an issue with it, not sure why anyone would..
    Nor do I think anyone uses unbalancing strike. Ever.
    i always pop it.. it allow you sneak attack almost 100% of the time.. thats like 30+ damage per hit.. not sure why you wouldn't use it.. perhaps your dps is way too high to even consider 30 damage on hit?

  8. #8
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I used it constantly on both my pure dark monk, and on my mains last life(11Ranger/6Monk/3Arti). It's extremely useful, I don't know why you wouldn't use it...
    I'd rather stun them, not to mention.. no way in hell I can fit a trip item on.

  9. #9
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    You want to give the class that achieves the highest amount of sneak attack an auto-bluff that enables them to sneak attack freely on a cooldown that lasts just about as long as the duration of the debuff?

    I honestly don't think that's a good idea. Bluff scores should be much higher than your Unbalancing Strike score because it's easier to get the DC up.

    The max sneak attack you can get from a pure Ranger is 6d6 (3d6 DWS, 3d6 Halfling)
    The max sneak attack you can get from a pure Monk is 7d6 (4d6 NiS, 3d6 Halfling)
    The max sneak attack you can get from a pure Rogue is 17d6 (14d6 Rog/Ass, 3d6 Halfling)

    If you want an auto bluff sneak attacker, just go halfling 12 Rogue, 6 Ranger, 2 Monk
    12 Rogue - 10d6 Sneak Attack - Traps/Special Abilities/Mastery
    6 Ranger - 1d6 Sneak Attack - Exposing Strike/Improved Weapon Finesse/Damage Boost/10% offhand chance/Free feats including Ranged option.
    2 Monk - 2d6 Sneak Attack - Access to Stances/Unbalancing Strike/+10% Offhand Chance
    Halfling - 3d6 Sneak Attack - Adorable

    16d6 with everything you want. There you go.
    You get that along with the fastest sneaking possible, if those stack.
    Last edited by Maelodic; 09-22-2013 at 11:23 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    I'd rather stun them, not to mention.. no way in hell I can fit a trip item on.
    Haha point taken. I mainly used it when stun was on cooldown, or on my Ranger since she didn't have Stuns.
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  11. #11
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    I'd rather stun them, not to mention.. no way in hell I can fit a trip item on.
    if your stun never fail, then you have the point. mines fail sometimes. so i need a back up

  12. #12
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    if your stun never fail, then you have the point. mines fail sometimes. so i need a back up
    I'm not an acrobat.
    My stun is sitting at 51 DC at level 18, so that's pretty much no-fail. Also has a 6 second cooldown, meaning I can do it pretty often.
    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    i always pop it.. it allow you sneak attack almost 100% of the time.. thats like 30+ damage per hit.. not sure why you wouldn't use it.. perhaps your dps is way too high to even consider 30 damage on hit?
    Again, I'd rather stun. Unbalancing strike has a much lower DC than my stun anyway.

    And, not to mention.. Stun leaves them helpless.
    Helpless gives me 80% more dmg AND sneak attack.

  13. #13
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    I'm not an acrobat.
    My stun is sitting at 51 DC at level 18, so that's pretty much no-fail. Also has a 6 second cooldown, meaning I can do it pretty often.

    Again, I'd rather stun. Unbalancing strike has a much lower DC than my stun anyway.

    And, not to mention.. Stun leaves them helpless.
    Helpless gives me 80% more dmg AND sneak attack.
    18? try to say the same when you reach ee giant hold.. good luck

  14. #14
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    18? try to say the same when you reach ee giant hold.. good luck
    You make me smile.
    1) I will have 68 stun DC with low effort. With a proper investment, 75-78.
    2) Unbalancing strike has a lower DC. Good luck landing that on eHard.

  15. #15
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    umd a glitterdust or sleetstorm scroll, fight inside it.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery
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    No mention of Radiance greensteel? Here http://crafting.cubicleninja.com/ind...1=15&bonus2=40
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    hmm ranger, monk and many other class with sneak attack have abilities to renders their enemy vulnerable to sneak attacks... while rogue don't have any?? i double check several times still find nothing relate to sneak attack... am i missing something? i tried bluff, but doesn't last as long with a long cool down... improve feint seem to be bugged?

    p.s. monk ability- Unbalancing Strike, ranger ability- Sniper Shot, Exposing Strike
    First, for someone who claims they no longer play this game in another thread ...
    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    @i don't really play ddo much nowadays.. so likely i miss most of the stuff.. please correct me if am wrong. thank you
    ... you sure are posting a lot about things that bug you while playing the game you no longer play.

    Anyway, I have a 3rd life rogue and bluff works just fine. When I add in deception (and, especially, improved deception), then I am sneak attacking nearly 100% of the time even when I have aggro. I've solo'd EE Warlock Sobrien and had him spend virtually the entire fight facing away from me thanks to bluff and improved deception - and when I say "virtually" I mean he would infrequently turn to face me (if improved deception didn't proc again before it wore off from the last time) and, even if he managed to start an attack, he would be facing away from me before the attack finished thereby rendering his action useless. My rogue's fort by-pass is high enough that he can sneak attack all but the most powerful undead and constructs, as well (with obviously more success against constructs than undead, but 50% against undead is nothing to sneeze at either). If I could fit radiance into his gear layout (at epic levels), then I would do that too.

    So, if your rogue is failing to get sneak attacks in, then you need to look at your bluff skill and your gear and see what you can do to improve. For the rest of us, we don't need it any easier to get sneak attacks than it already is (and it is pretty easy, even before epic levels).
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  18. #18
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    hmm ranger, monk and many other class with sneak attack have abilities to renders their enemy vulnerable to sneak attacks... while rogue don't have any?? i double check several times still find nothing relate to sneak attack... am i missing something? i tried bluff, but doesn't last as long with a long cool down... improve feint seem to be bugged?

    p.s. monk ability- Unbalancing Strike, ranger ability- Sniper Shot, Exposing Strike
    For fortification bypass:

    Assassin's Trick: Activate: Target opponent loses 25% of their fortification and 25% of their immunity to sneak attacks for 12 seconds if they fail a Will save (DC 10 + your rogue level + Int modifier). This attack only works on intelligent (non-mindless) enemies. (Cooldown: 15 seconds)

    ...its the 3rd core ability (level 6) from the assassin's tree. There's also opportunist feat, selectable as one of the rogue special feats from level 10 onwards:
    A Rogue with this ability gains a 3% chance to double strike with melee weapons and bypasses 10% fortification.

    You can also take precision, which is +4 to hit & 25% fortification bypass, they'll all stack too.

    To make them sneak attack vulnerable when you have aggro, deception/improved deception, some kind of blinding, and bluff is a class skill.
    Last edited by FuzzyDuck81; 09-23-2013 at 07:36 AM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member jonqrandom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    improve feint seem to be bugged?
    imp. feint works, it's just ... less than pleasant to use: there's quite a tick between the attack and the bluff, and if you attack (including autoattack) before the bluff, it won't happen. the 8 second cooldown is a nice complement to bluff, although at a cost of two feats you want to be getting your money's worth out of it.
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