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  1. #1
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Default dev- will druid ever get fixed?

    It have been years since the release of druid class... yet 99% of their bug still remain, and not even list in bug section.. wonder if they are going to get a fix.. please give an answer.

    Known bug(only ones that i know and still remember till this point)

    ************************************************** ***********************************
    ****all Bugs below have been tested many times, and confirmed in the dojo minutes before i made this post****
    ************************************************** ***********************************
    =========player Enhancement=========
    *bestial nature- saves are all given as insight bonus, does not stack with equipment. while the downside counterpart cannot be avoid in any way.

    ==========pet Enhancement==========
    *Wolf Howl I~IV: pet wolf never howls.. no matter how many rank you have in this enhancement

    *Wolf Takedown I~IV: pet never trip anything on it own, and there are no button given for this skill


    =============spell=================
    *Harrowing Pack- tested with five melee hireling without trip, wolf and summon dire bear. tested on minion and boss. also tested in test dojo upon those kobold. wolf kill ten of them without knock down once.

    *Pack Aptitude- description suggest it increase stats by 6 at max. but it is actually caped at 4.

    *Flame Blade- does not improved after level 20. even with +6 max fire spell cap and caster level.



    =============Wolf form ability=================
    *Takedown- a useless spell.. not viable even for pure wisdom build with all tactical twist/gear. plus this is design for melee combat!! wolf form extend spell cooldown by three times. make it viable please. also this spell/ability cannot be heighten, and spell school is innate ability.

    *Baiting Bite- either making bluff a class skill. or give bluff bonus to wolf form. with current state and form decrease charisma. it is rather useless through entire play while sneak attack is a big part of druid wolf form..

    *Howl of Terror- spell school enchantment? aren't those innate ability? wisdom mod.. for melee combat..

    *Snowslide- evocation.. no dc shown in game. according to wiki this is also wisdom mod.


    @i don't really play ddo much nowadays.. so likely i miss most of the stuff.. please correct me if am wrong. thank you




    p.s. turbine must down right hate druid.. melee druid have their form ability require insane amount of wisdom, while caster get to rotate around their spell according to season.. only two elemental form and they both given +1 to one school and -3 to all other school... good job turbine... imagine they leave this class in this state for entire year without even bother to look at it... good job..

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    1.It have been years since the release of druid class...



    2.i don't really play ddo much nowadays.. so likely i miss most of the stuff.. please correct me if am wrong. thank you




    3. p.s. turbine must down right hate druid.. melee druid have their form ability require insane amount of wisdom, while caster get to rotate around their spell according to season....
    Shortened your message and added numbers to stuff I want to respond to. I believe, that I havent took anything out of context, as all three were pretty much solo standing statements in those parts I want to respond to.

    1. That is not true. Plain and simply, that is not true. It has been 1 year and -from the top of my head- 2 months. But definitely not Years.

    2. With all due respect- if you dont play it, then why do you care?

    3. Druids in PnP were never one way class - they were always class that combines meele with casting abilities. Turbine tried to implement such druid in ddo, partially succeded, partially not. But the idea of meele needing casting stat is correct in flavor.

    Sorry if it sounds too harsh, but I ma kinda... not a fan o the attitude: I dont play much/at all anymore, but I am going to complain about the game I dont play :-D.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by viktorserak View Post
    Sorry if it sounds too harsh, but I ma kinda... not a fan o the attitude: I dont play much/at all anymore, but I am going to complain about the game I dont play :-D.
    Maybe these flaws are the reason, why he/she does not play much nowadays. Not a fan of the attitude: people complaining about people complaining.

    The OP made a point: fix what is broken (i.e. druid issues in this case)
    Last edited by morkahn82; 09-23-2013 at 05:18 AM.

  4. #4
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    One of the problems that I have with Druids (Apart from the obscenely long casting time of Reincarnate, the fact that Summons don't scale and that the Bear Form's attack speed is glacial) is actually a minor thing with a lot of irritation value to me.

    Last year, just before Mabar came out (About two to three weeks before) some genius at Turbine decided to change Takedown, Baiting Bite and Jaws of Winter to not work whilst in a Public Instance.

    Why is this irritating to me?

    Two words: Training Dummy.

    Apparently a Druid's ability to kill the Dummy in a reasonable time and get back to questing was over-powered...

    What probably happened is that some numb-skull saw it was a "Spell" and decided to change it without actually understanding how it was used in-game.

    To me the change was the equivalent of changing Manyshot to not work in Public Instances. Sure, Archers could still kill the dummy, but it would take forever by comparison.

  5. #5
    Community Member Czekojin's Avatar
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    I never had any problem with druid.
    Well, I am only a player who actually plays the game.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czekojin View Post
    I never had any problem with druid.
    Well, I am only a player who actually plays the game.
    Now that is just mean :-)

    Kudos.

  7. #7
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    Even after full year and after enhancement pass Season Herald's caster level bonus didn't work still. Nether from core ability nor from 5th tier ability. Very disappointing.

    Combat log and spells durations show only +1 caster bonus (and -3 penalties) from elemental form and nothing from Season Herald's enhancement.

    This Druid's elemental form is also awful. When sorcerers got elemental form too (the same version as have druids), it had been very criticized during beta testing and then their elemental form have been buffed (bonus to elemental spell power, bonus to elemental spell critical, bonus to PPR). Why druid’s elemental form haven't been changed too? Druids are more crippled by -3 caster level penalty to each other element, then on one element focused savants. Why caster druid's more used spell like ability Call Lighting is in each possible druid's elemental form nerfed by -3 caster level?

  8. #8
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    Default wolf

    Well some of what you said are valid points, others not so much, im too tired to go into which are which.

    Wolf form has never been weak tho, you just have to know how to build/play it. If you want very high straight melee dps however, you want to multiclass.

    One improvement is that now you can proc "offhand" attack with increase from twf, however melee druids are so feat starved you pretty much need to multiclass to get all the feats possible to max out melee dps.

    Wolf dps builds are very strong solo, but if you ever group with anyone that knows how to play it hell tear through everything.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery psteen1's Avatar
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    Druid has been ignored for a year now. I'm glad to see that today's patch is bringing some updates, but they still didn't fix the things that were broken in the first place.

    That being said, not everything that the OP listed are necessarily broken. Some of them are just design choices.

    The current state of the druid is not as in as bad of a place as some other classes.

  10. #10
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    The only place takedown doesn't work is ee with how its set up. You just have to build like a wis based monk which isn't a bad idea since many take some monk levels for evasion and stuning fist.

  11. #11
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I stopped reading when you said takedown was pointless. You may or may not have other valid points, but they are clouded by your lack of outside the box thinking here. Plenty of wolf builds make great use of takedown. You may not see the benefit, but that doesn't make it worthless.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 09-23-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Sokól's Avatar
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    I can ignore most bugs about the Druid but the fact that I have LR every time I want to change a feat really annoys me...
    Argonnessen: Hilmir - Purkilius - Jinu - Vignir @ Blood Assassin´s

  13. #13
    Community Member humbleroller's Avatar
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    why is Takedown based on Wisdom instead of Strength ?
    I always thought of it as 'dog trip'

    and why is Celerity so weak ?
    Celerity: Your attacks rain down like a lashing wind storm. Activating this ability grants you a [30/40/50]% enhancement bonus to double-strike for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 5 minutes)
    5 whole minutes for a 15 second attack rate. if rangers ManyShot had that sort of cooldown there would be riots.

    Please fix the dogs (druid and arti). I find that both tend to only be useful until level 17.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    It have been years since the release of druid class... yet 99% of their bug still remain, and not even list in bug section.. wonder if they are going to get a fix.. please give an answer.


    =============Wolf form ability=================
    *Takedown- a useless spell.. not viable even for pure wisdom build with all tactical twist/gear. plus this is design for melee combat!! wolf form extend spell cooldown by three times. make it viable please. also this spell/ability cannot be heighten, and spell school is innate ability.

    *Baiting Bite- either making bluff a class skill. or give bluff bonus to wolf form. with current state and form decrease charisma. it is rather useless through entire play while sneak attack is a big part of druid wolf form..

    *Howl of Terror- spell school enchantment? aren't those innate ability? wisdom mod.. for melee combat..

    *Snowslide- evocation.. no dc shown in game. according to wiki this is also wisdom mod.
    I have left in the parts of your original post to which I am going to respond.

    First, as another poster already noted, it has been 15 months since the druid class was released. So, not "years". Merely a single year and a handful of months. Does that make it better some of these things have been fixed? Obviously not, but there are other bugs that have existed since the beginning and have yet to be fixed. Thus, no need to work as hard as you are to smear Turbine and its employees as there is other, much lower hanging, fruit available if that is your goal.

    Second, as far as Takedown goes, you must be building your character wrong if this spell does not work for you. My druid can trip nearly anything, provided it is able to be tripped.

    Third, I will agree that Baiting Bite is basically useless. I never bother to memorize it on my druid because I have not used it since I figured out it is basically useless.

    Fourth, wisdom mod for Howl of Terror, Snowslide and Takedown ... While there are many (and many successful) ways in which to build your druid character, it seems to me the class was designed (at least for pure builds) to use wisdom in this way. My 25th level druid has a standing 42 or 44 wisdom (might be higher, been a bit since I have been on her). Her Takedown DC is around 56, as I recall. With her wisdom where it is, that provides a lot of synergy for the times when I need to go into elemental form instead and enables me to have a relatively large (for a druid) pool of spell points to remain effective. It also means my DC's for my animal form and other spells are going to be very high. Finally, it also means that if I use Flame Blade, then I get great attack and damage bonuses since that spell relies on my wisdom.

    Based on what you've put into your original post, it seems to me you're expecting to have great DC's without having to invest in wisdom to get there. If your druid is pure and not multi-classed, then I would recommend you LR, change what gear you need to, and get your wisdom up. If you're multi-classed, then you'll have to look to another poster for help there as I've not built a multi-classed druid.

    FWIW, my druid is half-elf and her starting stats were:
    14 str
    14 dex
    16 con
    8 int
    16 wis
    8 cha
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I have left in the parts of your original post to which I am going to respond.

    First, as another poster already noted, it has been 15 months since the druid class was released. So, not "years". Merely a single year and a handful of months. Does that make it better some of these things have been fixed? Obviously not, but there are other bugs that have existed since the beginning and have yet to be fixed. Thus, no need to work as hard as you are to smear Turbine and its employees as there is other, much lower hanging, fruit available if that is your goal.

    Second, as far as Takedown goes, you must be building your character wrong if this spell does not work for you. My druid can trip nearly anything, provided it is able to be tripped.

    Third, I will agree that Baiting Bite is basically useless. I never bother to memorize it on my druid because I have not used it since I figured out it is basically useless.

    Fourth, wisdom mod for Howl of Terror, Snowslide and Takedown ... While there are many (and many successful) ways in which to build your druid character, it seems to me the class was designed (at least for pure builds) to use wisdom in this way. My 25th level druid has a standing 42 or 44 wisdom (might be higher, been a bit since I have been on her). Her Takedown DC is around 56, as I recall. With her wisdom where it is, that provides a lot of synergy for the times when I need to go into elemental form instead and enables me to have a relatively large (for a druid) pool of spell points to remain effective. It also means my DC's for my animal form and other spells are going to be very high. Finally, it also means that if I use Flame Blade, then I get great attack and damage bonuses since that spell relies on my wisdom.

    Based on what you've put into your original post, it seems to me you're expecting to have great DC's without having to invest in wisdom to get there. If your druid is pure and not multi-classed, then I would recommend you LR, change what gear you need to, and get your wisdom up. If you're multi-classed, then you'll have to look to another poster for help there as I've not built a multi-classed druid.

    FWIW, my druid is half-elf and her starting stats were:
    14 str
    14 dex
    16 con
    8 int
    16 wis
    8 cha
    Failing to recognize that people's first language is obviously not English comes across as a bit smarmy. Secondly, anything over a "year" IS technically "years" in time - e.g., one correctly says "1.25 YEARS."

    Otherwise, the general gist of many of these posts is that classes shouldn't suck, be poorly designed, and/or have bugs to abilities. Nor should one have to TR any character to be viable.

  16. #16
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I stopped reading when you said takedown was pointless. You may or may not have other valid points, but they are clouded by your lack of outside the box thinking here. Plenty of wolf builds make great use of takedown. You may not see the benefit, but that doesn't make it worthless.
    then what is the use of takedown? the crapy damage? cast a spell.. creeping cold or anything does more damage then that.. and they don't require you to be in melee range. please educate me the power of this spell.

    also some say bluff are not to be succeed.. they are only use to trigger the ac reduction in natural warrior tree.. but hey do you really need -ac so badly? there are tons of gear/other ability to do the samething without wasting spell power..


    as for cc.. these form ability are totally waste of time. and the reason is simple.. if you don't have wisdom, they are useless... and if you do have wisdom... you be better off with earthquake or sunburst.. they have way higher dc.. not to mention even when i manage to get my dc up to 60(on test sever...lack some equipment).. these form ability still fail near 100% of the time when fully equipment with trip/bluff gear.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I have left in the parts of your original post to which I am going to respond.

    First, as another poster already noted, it has been 15 months since the druid class was released. So, not "years". Merely a single year and a handful of months. Does that make it better some of these things have been fixed? Obviously not, but there are other bugs that have existed since the beginning and have yet to be fixed. Thus, no need to work as hard as you are to smear Turbine and its employees as there is other, much lower hanging, fruit available if that is your goal.

    Second, as far as Takedown goes, you must be building your character wrong if this spell does not work for you. My druid can trip nearly anything, provided it is able to be tripped.

    Third, I will agree that Baiting Bite is basically useless. I never bother to memorize it on my druid because I have not used it since I figured out it is basically useless.

    Fourth, wisdom mod for Howl of Terror, Snowslide and Takedown ... While there are many (and many successful) ways in which to build your druid character, it seems to me the class was designed (at least for pure builds) to use wisdom in this way. My 25th level druid has a standing 42 or 44 wisdom (might be higher, been a bit since I have been on her). Her Takedown DC is around 56, as I recall. With her wisdom where it is, that provides a lot of synergy for the times when I need to go into elemental form instead and enables me to have a relatively large (for a druid) pool of spell points to remain effective. It also means my DC's for my animal form and other spells are going to be very high. Finally, it also means that if I use Flame Blade, then I get great attack and damage bonuses since that spell relies on my wisdom.

    Based on what you've put into your original post, it seems to me you're expecting to have great DC's without having to invest in wisdom to get there. If your druid is pure and not multi-classed, then I would recommend you LR, change what gear you need to, and get your wisdom up. If you're multi-classed, then you'll have to look to another poster for help there as I've not built a multi-classed druid.

    FWIW, my druid is half-elf and her starting stats were:
    14 str
    14 dex
    16 con
    8 int
    16 wis
    8 cha
    am not sure how you takedown everything.. have you tried it in ee gianthold? well when i tried on test sever.. i build that druid with 18 wisdom base, helf race which get another +2 wisdom, 7 level up, 4 enhancement from both tree. every possible source of wisdom are used. and they still failed.. even in some simple epic stuff. please correct me if am wrong.

    p.s. i did some simple calculation and the result shows you will never get decent dc on trip. wisdom is not strength they are not so easy to build. plus you don't get any class enhancement boosting it. prove me wrong if you can, ill thank you for it.
    Last edited by burningwind; 09-23-2013 at 09:39 AM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Coyopa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    then what is the use of takedown?
    The point is to get the mob laying on their backs while you chew their faces off. This should be obvious to all but the most intentionally dense...

    am not sure how you takedown everything.. have you tried it in ee gianthold? well when i tried on test sever.. i build that druid with 18 wisdom base, helf race which get another +2 wisdom, 7 level up, 4 enhancement from both tree. every possible source of wisdom are used. and they still failed.. even in some simple epic stuff. please correct me if am wrong.
    It isn't just wisdom that affects Takedown. Vertigo affects it. As does exceptional combat mastery. Anything that affects the DC's of the Trip tactical feat will affect your Takedown DC. It isn't hard to get a viable Takedown DC.
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  18. #18
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    The point is to get the mob laying on their backs while you chew their faces off. This should be obvious to all but the most intentionally dense...



    It isn't just wisdom that affects Takedown. Vertigo affects it. As does exceptional combat mastery. Anything that affects the DC's of the Trip tactical feat will affect your Takedown DC. It isn't hard to get a viable Takedown DC.
    please explain how you reach decent dc on trip without super high wisdom. do you really think gear + destiny + moderate wis mod will do you enough? in that case fighter will have all the ease with tactical... the thing is you need sort of 70 dc or more at end game..

    lets see
    destiny-
    6 from fighter tree..
    3 if you are using monk tree
    racial-
    3 if you are dwarf or wf
    equipment
    15 from Vertigo (really rare..only appear on two named item. usually you will only find 10)
    5 from exceptional combat mastery

    now.. lets add them up..

    11(base)+9(destiny)+3(racial)+20(equipment)= 43
    you will need 70.. so which means you need 27 wisdom mod..and thats means 64 wisdom

    you can correct me if am wrong.. or you can prove me that you manage to trip anything with 50~60 dc in epic elite gianthold or any of the new content


    p.s. if you really have that much of wisdom.. you will never bother with anything relate to this foolish spell.. with earthquake you can knock down huge group at once.. and you don't need to be in melee range.. i really doesn't see how dev put them together to came up with such silly ability.. perhaps they really hate druid that much.
    Last edited by burningwind; 09-23-2013 at 07:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningwind View Post
    please explain how you reach decent dc on trip without super high wisdom. do you really think gear + destiny + moderate wis mod will do you enough? in that case fighter will have all the ease with tactical... the thing is you need sort of 70 dc or more at end game..

    lets see
    destiny-
    6 from fighter tree..
    3 if you are using monk tree
    racial-
    3 if you are dwarf or wf
    equipment
    15 from Vertigo (really rare..only appear on two named item. usually you will only find 10)
    5 from exceptional combat mastery

    now.. lets add them up..

    11(base)+9(destiny)+3(racial)+20(equipment)= 43
    you will need 70.. so which means you need 27 wisdom mod..and thats means 64 wisdom

    you can correct me if am wrong.. or you can prove me that you manage to trip anything with 50~60 dc in epic elite gianthold or any of the new content


    p.s. if you really have that much of wisdom.. you will never bother with anything relate to this foolish spell.. with earthquake you can knock down huge group at once.. and you don't need to be in melee range.. i really doesn't see how dev put them together to came up with such silly ability.. perhaps they really hate druid that much.
    First, if you're building expecting to use wisdom based abilities, you should be making a substantial investment into wisdom. Whether you consider 64 wisdom substantial is subjective I suppose. Also don't forget potential debuffs to make the tripping easier. A level drain weapon is amazing on a druid. If you have monk levels, you can lead with a fire/dark/fire autocrit with a life drainer for extra effective DC. My point is there are ways to make it work. Just like there are ways to land instakill spells if you're a caster. You just have to use debuffs sometimes and you need to put effort into your DC stat.

    Edit: you do have a point though. If you are a pure or nearly pure druid, you're likely better off with earthquake. Takedown would be far more useful on a monk splashed druid that is a deep enough splash you don't have access to earthquake but instead focus more on monk abilities like stunning fist/takedown rotation.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 09-23-2013 at 07:19 PM.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    First, if you're building expecting to use wisdom based abilities, you should be making a substantial investment into wisdom. Whether you consider 64 wisdom substantial is subjective I suppose. Also don't forget potential debuffs to make the tripping easier. A level drain weapon is amazing on a druid. If you have monk levels, you can lead with a fire/dark/fire autocrit with a life drainer for extra effective DC. My point is there are ways to make it work. Just like there are ways to land instakill spells if you're a caster. You just have to use debuffs sometimes and you need to put effort into your DC stat.

    Edit: you do have a point though. If you are a pure or nearly pure druid, you're likely better off with earthquake. Takedown would be far more useful on a monk splashed druid that is a deep enough splash you don't have access to earthquake but instead focus more on monk abilities like stunning fist/takedown rotation.
    Also even if you don't have 95% success rates because of the attack animation and druid double strike it's not uncommon for me to have them save once or twice and get them on their back with the third or fourth hit from takedown, and I haven't even put much effort into takedown because I prefer stunning fist.

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