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  1. #1
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    Sep 2009

    Default Making Dungeons More Random

    Alright! So, a while back, I had an idea for a "random mode." It had some debate, then faded into the "Old Post Retirement Home." And today, I was talking in the "Fun with Maruts" thread up on General, where Mattimeo_the_Sorcere offered a fun-sounding idea for a neat event, and Arianka made it more of an adventure pack suggestion. In the thread, redspecter23 and sebastianosmith kick around a really neat idea, and my brain just started whirring on the how it could possibly be implemented. They totally deserve the credit for the idea, I'm just hijacking the explanation and my thoughts on how it could work.

    So, I'm doing a one-two punch of my old idea revamped, and expanded upon the initial idea in the thread: Kythri Mode & Hunted Mode!

    Kythri Mode
    This is a special mode for dungeons only which alters the abilities of monsters, can grant them new powers, change their locations, and even spawn different monsters from the normal dungeons.

    This would be sold from the DDO store as a stand-alone pack. There may also be a bundled option to have the mode sold along with a currently unknown adventure pack. A character that is on their 2nd+ reincarnation can use Kythri mode for free.

    How it Works!
    At the dungeon entrance, there are two check options - Kythri Mode and Greater Kythri mode. Initially, only Kythri mode is available for a particular dungeon.

    Kythri Mode
    Each group of mobs that spawn have a random change to be affected in some way. This has no effect on quest objective enemies, or boss monsters. A mob may be augmented to perform different abilities - such as a caster having different spells, or an enemy that normally deals ice damage now deals electric damage. A particular group may be enhanced with one or more additional powers, such as increased damage or additional damage of a random type, regeneration, or permanently invisible; on Hard and Elite difficulty, there is a small chance the group may have 2 or even 3 abilities. There is also a chance a particular group is spawned in another area of the map, with either less or more members; there is no chance of having them spawn in the final area or boss fight room, and minions associated with boss encounters have no chance of being moved.

    Greater Kythri Mode
    Completing a dungeon on Kythri Mode unlocks Greater Kythri Mode for that dungeon; alternately, a character on their 4th life automatically unlock Greater Kythri Mode for all dungeons. Kythri Mode must be checked before Greater Kythri Mode can be checked.

    During Greater Kythri Mode, the mob groups that spawn have a chance to be different monsters of the same CR. Objective enemies and the boss are unaffected. There is a small chance that a reduced number of monsters spawn that have a higher CR. These mobs have the same chance to be affected by Kythri Mode buffs and augmentations as normal mobs.

    Hunted Mode
    You know all those villains whose plans you've foiled, lieutenants killed, and resources destroyed? They know your name. They know where you are. And they're coming for you...

    Mattimeo_the_Sorcere started the thread, Arianka, redspecter23 and sebastianosmith expanded the idea from the initial event suggestion, in my mind, they all get credit for it. Unless someone doesn't like the idea, then I deserve the blame.

    This would be sold from the DDO store, with options as a stand-alone pack, or in a bundle along with an adventure pack. A character that is on their 3rd+ life can access Hunted Mode for free.

    How It Works
    At a dungeon entrance or wilderness area entrance, there is a check box for Hunted Mode. When Hunted Mode is active, there is a chance that one or more ambushes may spawn during the course of the adventure, themed to particular hostile factions and made to scale to the character's level.

    Invisible System Ju-Ju: Hate
    Hate measures how much a particular faction wants to kill you.

    Gaining Hate
    Hate is amassed by four ways: Patron Favor, Quests, Killing, and Denouncing.

    1) Patron Favor. Each patron group has one or more enemy factions; as you gain favor with a patron, you increase the minimum amount of hate that faction has for you. This is temporarily suppressed if you die to an ambush from that faction, or you successfully defeat all the members of an ambush party from that faction.

    2) Quests. Each quest is associated with one faction. Whenever you start a quest, you gain a small amount of Hate from that faction. Whenever you complete the quest, you get a slightly larger amount of Hate from that faction.

    3) Killing. Killing a monster affiliated with a faction adds a small amount of Hate with that faction, based on CR. The more important the figure, the more Hate you get. Members of an ambush party do not generate Hate when killed.

    4) Denouncing. If you like fighting a particular faction, or have a vendetta - or just want to add a little more spice to your life, you can speak to a special "Contact NPC" and spend some plat to spread the word. The amount of Hate earned is based on how much coin you spend.

    Losing Hate
    You can reduce the amount of Hate you have through one of four ways: Time, Dying, Beating an Ambush, and Bribery.

    1) Time. Every hour, you lose a small chunk of Hate, down to the minimum generated by your Patron Favor. So, if you lay low for a while - like for that "sleep thing" or when you draw "daily life" aggro - you'll have a much reduced chance of getting ambushed.

    2) Dying. If an Ambush gets credited for killing you, you lose a set amount of Hate from that faction; if the ambush was targeting you, this is a larger amount. You also receive "Claimed Mark" buff. An ambush gets credited for killing you if one has damaged you within 10 seconds of your death, or you are affected by a debuff one has cast on you.

    3) Beating an Ambush. If all of the members of an Ambush are killed, you receive a large reduction of Hate from that faction; if you were the target, the reduction is greater. Additionally, you receive "Ambush Prevailed" buff.

    4) Bribery. If you find a particular faction is giving you a hard time, and you want something of a breather, you can speak to a special "Contact NPC" and spend some plat to get them off your back for a while. The amount of Hate lost is based on how much plat you spend.

    There are two buffs you can earn when fighting an ambush: Claimed Mark and Ambush Prevailed.

    Claimed Mark
    Your death has appeased your enemies - for the moment. This is an hour-long buff that lasts through death, but not log-out. It pauses in public areas. While you have the buff, you suppress the minimum hate generated by Patron Favor for the faction that killed you. This may be earned multiple times, once for each faction.

    Ambush Prevailed
    You have thwarted the attempt made on your life, and are instilled with a greater confidence. This is an hour-long buff, but it does not last through death or log-out. It does not pause in public areas. This supersedes and replaces Claimed Mark. While you have the buff, you suppress the minimum hate generated by Patron Favor for the faction that you thwarted. This may be earned multiple times, once for each faction. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus to Hit, Damage, Crit Damage, +1 to Spell Pen, and 10 Universal Spell Power against enemies of that faction; this may stack up to 5 times.

    Invisible System Ju-Ju - Ambushes
    When a character first enters a dungeon or wilderness area, invisible calculations are made to see if they will trigger an ambush. This begins with the faction that currently has the highest Hate value, and goes in descending order. A roll is made against a value based on the amount of Hate. If the roll indicates no ambush, the next highest faction is checked. If none of them indicate an ambush, then no faction is added to the queue.

    If a faction is confirmed to launch an ambush, no further checks are made. That faction is added to the Ambush Queue, and the character's level is recorded. Up to 6 factions are stored in the queue per dungeon.

    Ambush Timer
    When at least one faction has been added to the queue, an invisible timer begins to count down. The timer is set randomly, but has a minimum time of 3 minutes. When time runs out, one of the factions in the Ambush Queue is selected at random. A group of enemies spawn around the character that generated the result; the type of enemies spawned depend on the faction type, and their CR depends on the character's level. If the character is not available, then it defaults to the party leader; if the party leader is not available, the ambush spawns around the next party member in the list.

    The timer is immediately reset after an ambush is launched, with another random interval; the minimum time is adjusted to 30 seconds. Once a particular entry has been selected, it is removed from the Ambush Queue. The timer stops going down and resetting when the Ambush Queue is empty, or when a quest is completed.

    - Kythri Mode - Makes dungeons more random by possibly changing mob abilities, beefing up mobs randomly, moving them to different areas, and even switching them with different mobs.
    - Hunted Mode - You are randomly ambushed in dungeons & wilderness areas by groups you have made angry.
    Last edited by Worldcrafter; 11-01-2013 at 04:03 AM.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Interesting. This would be a funky addition to the game.

    Practically speaking, however, I think it would be too much work to implement this sort of thing for Turbine to sink that kind of time into it. Aside from that, the fact that a lot of the non-random stuff in the game is buggy enough, I'd see a TON of problems happening with this.

  3. #3
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Feb 2011


    An amazing amount of thought and work put into this. Nice job! Thats what makes this community great

    As for the ideas, they sound fun and I'm up for anything that spices up content we've run a million times. BUT...this also sounds like it would require a lotta development time and money....things they'd probably be wise to spend elsewhere

  4. #4
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    Join Date
    Sep 2009


    Thank you both. I agree there could be some serious bug issues, but the same can be said for any new content, true? As long as they didn't affect quest completion, I think any bugs could be survivable - unless they turned enemies invincible instead of invisible...

    At first I would agree that it would take a lot of work to implement just one of these ideas, let alone both. But, we already have potential groundwork in play right now. Both the Shiradi Prism -> Rainbow -> Double Rainbow series and Potions of Wonder have random tables; it would be a matter if they could be viable at launching a similar random check at dungeon start for Hunted mode, and at mob spawn for Kythri mode.

    The easiest way to implement Kythri mode would be a universal list of possible buffs and augments that scale with the creature's CR. While having an individually tailored list per dungeon would be incredible, I think even if they could use the random tables as a shortcut, that would be too much effort. As long as the buffs are varied enough as to not get too stale, a universal chart could still be quite entertaining. I can't really say anything about the ease or possibility of making a monster list for Greater Kythri Mode.

    Hunted Mode... yeah, that'd be a bit of a workout on its lonesome. Figuring out which factions are out there, how they tie into the different patrons, what things each group would spawn... I'd have to agree, that'd be a good amount of work right there. Though if they did decide to make such a thing and it pulled through, it would be amazing to see.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  5. #5

    Thumbs up

    Aw cool, thanks for putting my name in the credits. Really appreciate it!

  6. #6
    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Mar 2007


    You have been waylaid by a dungeon and must defend yourself...

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010


    The main reson why I would support such modes is that it would make quests more replayable. They are getting kind of stale by now.

    I also thought that it's weird how only Veil is hunted by a Marut, but there is an infinite amount of reincarnated Pale Masters out there, and people with Timeless Bodies, and several other ways that defy mortality and humanity.

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