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  1. #1
    Community Member Xeno5k's Avatar
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    Default What dps would you say is considered good dps? And what hp would you say is good?

    Not builts, numbers. For example, is 600 dps considered good? Is 700 dps considered good? Is 700 hp to 800 hp considered good? Is 800 hp to 900 hp considered good?
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  2. #2
    Community Member Shorlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeno5k View Post
    Not builts, numbers. For example, is 600 dps considered good? Is 700 dps considered good? Is 700 hp to 800 hp considered good? Is 800 hp to 900 hp considered good?
    Completely depends on class, weapon, etc etc. I would say, if you're doing 600dps as a paladin wielding a scepter, yeah, pretty good. Likewise, if you are a first life rogue with 900hp...yeah, also good.

    I know when my first life wiz hit 850hp, I thought it was amazing. Granted, it was situational, and overkill, but, hey, it was awesome! But, then, I've seen people with almost 2k hp...so, yeah...
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  3. #3
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Once upon a time, we expected casters to have at least 300hp for doing Shroud back when cap was 16.

    Now with the level cap quite a bit higher, I would consider anything less than 500hp to be low.

  4. #4
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Default What is good dps? What is good HP?

    Mine is
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  5. #5
    Community Member Daine's Avatar
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    Need content,level and difficulty to judge.

    I've been running a lot of shrouds recently and am regularly seeing one or two people in the group on elite with under 400hp, in the old days they wouldn't have got in, these days it doesn't matter so much if they know what they're doing.

    In EN and EH Raids I often see melee toons with well over 900hp that almost never go under 1/2 hp, their damage mitigation is high, their HP are high, so it always makes me think their DPS could have been higher as well, either that or they're just slumming it down in the EH levels because they didn't feel like running EE.

    My experience at level cap EE solo is laughable, so I'll leave it to the completionists, elitists and more dedicated players to suggest values for that play range....

  6. #6
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    5 star solo 26+ Fight To Finish/Ring of Fire is a good measure.
    Solo easier EE, Lords of Dust, Trial by Fire, stuff like that.
    For both survivability and dps
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  7. #7
    Community Member Ashlayna's Avatar
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    If I can kill them before they kill me, then my HP and DPS is good enough.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeno5k View Post
    Not builts, numbers. For example, is 600 dps considered good? Is 700 dps considered good? Is 700 hp to 800 hp considered good? Is 800 hp to 900 hp considered good?
    LEts start with the easier part, HPs:

    1. It depends on class. Generally, anything under 500 is gimpy, but casters needs lower HP then meeles (still need over 500HP ofc). If you are asking about EH content and lower, 500 is okay even on Meele. In EE, 700ish for meele is minimum in my eyes, but HP arent half that importnat as damage mitigation - dodge, incorp, displ, AC, PRR: Char with 600 and good damage mitigation is far better then char with 900 and bad mitigation.

    And DPS:
    2. Again, depends on class - casters should have higher DPS or at least burst DPS (outside manyshot) then Meeles. Archers are whole another category. Also depends on another factors - while dualwielding two nightmares from CITW is not a good choice from pure DPS perspective, its considered very effecrive because of its abilities (level drain), that makes up for slightly lower DPS. I dont rly remember what the timing was, so maybe some forum matador will corect here, but I believe that it was considered a good note to kill EE Sobrien under 90 seconds? or was it 60 seconds?

  9. #9
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    If you have less than me, it's not enough. If you have the same amount, you copied my build, you plagiarist. If you have more than me, you're an exploiter.
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  10. #10
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    melee wise, swing the 2 hander and make 110 dmg or more per swing.

    Bows are more how many arrows are you firing with bursts of dmg.

    And any caster should automatically be more pimpn then the dude with the weapon. Hp, 600 for mage types, 700 for melee types with the aspirations to gain more.

    That said, dodge should capped, and prr should be jacked. Their just isn't any reason other then you built away from both to not have that. Levels, feats, enhancments, ED's, and now common random gear just make it sickeningly easy to achieve.
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  11. #11
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    Over 9000 MINIMUM!

    What's fun in an action MMO is that your raw DPS will just be as good as your ability to deal it in x or y circumstances. Same with your HP when there are so many way to increase survivability. Mobility/Awareness/Avoidance being the main.

    As for DPS, I am one weird kind of powergamers. I just don't care about those. All I want is to be able to succeed. That's the "numbers" that should matter. I've outdpsed people with better gears and stronger classes in games where these are actually all that should matter. Work on personnal skills, that's my approach.

    HP is a bit more critical. Different as melee or range AND you should take your own abilities to avoid into consideration. What you want is to be able to take +/- 3-4 hits as a range and 5-6 hits as a melee. This gives you time to react. So depending on the difficulty you're playing and how active you are, numbers could vary.

    HP:

    Range: over 600 = good enought. But mobs in EEs hit for lowish 200s (with low PRR) so i'd say why not go for 650 so you can take one more hit without much more investment. The math is easy to do anyways.
    Melee: I don't have nearly the same experience with those in EEs but 800-1000 seems to be fine as they usually have better defences anyway.

    DPS:

    Just do the best you can with what you have, that is the key to success. Maximizing your DPS output while staying alive is an art which should be trained. It's also very hard to calculate unless you're standing still spamming stuff as I said before. There are only a few dps oriented encounters in this game.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Infiltraitor's Avatar
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    How much is good?

    It really depends on what you want out of the game.

    The top tier players on Ghallanda server all have over 1000 dps and 700 hp and run Epic Elite BYOH almost exclusively.

    Epic Hard content is soloable with 400+ dps and decent self-healing.

    I would venture a guess as to say that most puggers do about 200-300 dps and have 500 hit points.

    But that isn't the question. You want my personal opinion.

    600 DPS and 600 hit points for Melee DPS.

    500 DPS and 1400 hit points for Melee Tanks.

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  13. #13
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    In terms of HP theres lots and lots of other factors, my Paladin/monk, and my melee bard had around the same HP 850-950 but I felt a lot more squishy on my bard, because the paladin monk, had way higher saves, PPR, dodge, evasion, the bard always had displacement on and bigger heals, but I felt like I took a way more damage, and I kept a much closer eye on my red bar while playing him compared to my other toon.

    Also in game I would rather have some guy with 800 hp, good, saves good dodge, incoporability, self heals cocoon, high healing amp, some PPR, maybe even evasion/improved evasion, over some guy who has 1400-1600 hp, no self heals, low heal amp, low saves, no dps, no dodge, no displacement clickie, blur item. And you would think that at least they would have good AC and PPR? most do but ive run across a few WF stalwarts who didnt even take the addy body feat............and have no heal amp, no DPS but look at all them HP's mom!!!! Its a healers nightmare.

  14. #14
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    DPS - enough to kill the enemy faster than they kill you without necessitating the expenditure of too much resources.
    HP - enough to not die before you kill the enemy & without necessitating the expenditure of too much resources.

    Exactly how much "enough" is depends a great deal on the content & difficulty

    And naturally there are other mitigating factors - a pure cleric mainly focussed on healing may not have much raw dps, but pick up a sacrificial dagger & the negs granted give a lot of effective DPS.. elf is typically seen as squishy, but an elf monk with "only" 500hp but high dodge %, halfway decent AC, 25% incorporeality & displacement dragonmarks & then spams FoL while fighting can have 5x the survivability of the 1500hp barbarian meatsack who'll be screaming for hjealz every 4 or 5 seconds - and they can even use feywild tap to throw the healer extra SPs to help keep the barbarian alive while they do their thing
    Last edited by FuzzyDuck81; 09-23-2013 at 02:33 AM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infiltraitor View Post
    600 DPS and 600 hit points for Melee DPS.

    500 DPS and 1400 hit points for Melee Tanks.
    I think tanks are listed a tad high.. or proper DPS is a bit low..

  16. #16
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    And how the hell are you going to meassure your damage per second output, since there are no built in tools, and no plugin system for 3rd party to develop them?

  17. #17
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    As others have said, it depends on what you want to get done with the character

    For most epic elite melees I have found that about 2000-3000 effective HP being usually good enough, with actual HP in the 700-1100 range. Ranged and casters can get by with two thirds or half that,but not below 500-600 actual HP. If you are fully self healing you can get by with two thirds or half that(still the 500-600 hp minimum).

    Effective hitpoints being hitpoints/(probability of being hit*part of damage though damage mitigation)

    For epic hards: You do not need even close to that.

    As for DPS.. hitting 1000 DPS is a good long term goal, but 500-700 is more normal in "well geared, good builds".

    Note that other things besides hitpoints and DPS are important. Things like saves, healing amplification and self healing capability matter a lot.

  18. #18
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    I think tanks are listed a tad high..
    I think if you have more than 1,100 HP on any build, you need to reevaluate your setup.
    You know what makes me cringe more than anything else in a PUG? When a Paladin or a Fighter join an EE group and have 1,400-1,500+ HP, and are S&B outside of tanking a raid. Why? Sure they may be hard to kill, but I know they're doing no DPS what-so-ever, and unless the rest of the group is there beating on the same mobs they'll never kill anything.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the classes, and I appreciate a good tank in raids that call for one... But in regular questing put the silly shield away and pull your ESOS out and actually do something.

    My opinion is that if you know what you're doing, 600-900 HP for a melee toon is perfect. Any less and you run the risk of being 1 shotted in EE's. any more and you're wasting gear slots, enhancement points, feats and stat points for very little gain; These things would be better spent on DPS.

    Caster's I can't comment on, because I've never played an epic level "Caster" caster. But most of the truly good arcanes I run with have around 600-800 it seems.

    DPS is an iffy subject, and is hard to say "You should be doing this much no matter what"... I mean, how much DPS should a melee Sorc be doing? or a Dex based Monk?
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  19. #19
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    -snip-
    Well.. I'm aiming for 900-1k on my melee wizard, partly because of his slower healing - if he's getting his ass kicked, not much I can do, so I'll drop two feats on a 100 hp buffer. (10 ap for a 100 hp buffer again.)

  20. #20
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I think if you have more than 1,100 HP on any build, you need to reevaluate your setup.
    You know what makes me cringe more than anything else in a PUG? When a Paladin or a Fighter join an EE group and have 1,400-1,500+ HP, and are S&B outside of tanking a raid. Why? Sure they may be hard to kill, but I know they're doing no DPS what-so-ever, and unless the rest of the group is there beating on the same mobs they'll never kill anything.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the classes, and I appreciate a good tank in raids that call for one... But in regular questing put the silly shield away and pull your ESOS out and actually do something.
    You might be surprised - shield mastery adds doublestrike, 2hf feats increase glancing blows & probability of those glancing blows being upgraded to a full hit... then if they're using one of those yummy Nightmare bastard swords that's a decent number of levels being drained, which can be the equivalent of 1000 hp especially on an orange-named enemy.

    I'll agree that SOME super-HP crazy characters might be very low damage output, but don't write-off all of them
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

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