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  1. #1

    Default Bringing in Kitsune race

    Before you anti-furries flame this thread, just read it first please.

    I know this is 3.5, not 3.5 pathfinder, though wouldn't it be nice to bring in another race? I think the kitsune (fox) would possibly add flavor and culture to the game. Not to mention make a suitably possible variant of caster or rogue.

    I think it could go like this:

    Race: Kitsune
    Attributes: -2 Strength then +2 dexterity or +2 intelligence or even +2 Wisdom.
    Size: Small, granting +1 AC
    +1 attack bonus from size.
    +6 to hide.
    Usual intimidate penalties for small size
    +2 on Spot, UMD, and Disable Device

    I know this screams rogue build, though I would like to "hear" what the community thinks about adding a little bit of culture to ddo as Kitsune for it's first playable animal race.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by stitch_evil_koala View Post
    I know this screams rogue build, though I would like to "hear" what the community thinks about adding a little bit of culture to ddo as Kitsune for it's first playable animal race.
    Turbine does not have the rights to use Pathfinder material, so posting why this is not a good idea is irrelevant.

  3. #3

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    Okay, then we could call it something else. I didn't think Paizo had copyrighted the "Kitsune". My fault. Though Turbine could come up with another name, right? Or would that fall under Paizo as well? I'd hate to see an opportunity for some "culture flavor" just because Turbine couldn't use a Vulpes race.
    Last edited by stitch_evil_koala; 09-22-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member enochiancub's Avatar
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    All the other complications aside. Why would these creatures be in Xen'drik or Faerun in the first place? What stake do they have in the affairs of the two worlds? What "culture flavor" would they provide? What reasoning do you have for wanting them in game when the basic races from either setting aren't even yet fully represented?

    Not trying to fuffle your suggestion, just asking for more aside from a stat block and your own personal desire.

    Main: 18 Artificer, Thelanis

  5. #5

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    Firstly, I ask that you understand I am not quite into the backstory as some players may be. I may get things wrong or some of these may not even exist. I am simply going off of what I know and declare that I am not a hardcore player.

    The "race" perhaps could have been exiled from the Fey realm. They could be a race that neither world has room for, nor want of. The culture flavor could be the manner of dress they wear and their religious practices. (Not that it would make a difference in-game.) For example, the devs could probably implement a bite or claw attack, while weak, a good thing to have when your weapon breaks. And as for reasoning for wanting them in game? I just thought it would be a nice change of pace to have something else besides the obvious humanoids.

    I'm only going off of my mind's eye and how subtle differences may make the game fun. Don't get me wrong, it is already fun, though my "personal desire" is only to change the game up a little. And besides, I wouldn't mind another small race to play with.

  6. #6
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    Animal people have been around in dnd for awhile in the form of lycanthropes. even back in 2e there were many variants including fox people (believe it was in the oriental adventures book in 2e). and while narrowing it down to kitsune (fox-folk shapeshifters) in a single book was done in pathfinder. the idea of it is open sourced from japanese folklore, not sure they would even be able to sue or what not by bringing in an open licensed idea into ddo just because its in another module.

    perfect world international has a kitsune race/class named venomancer, and I can bet that they didnt liscense it from wizards or pathfinder or anything of the sort. now being that pathfinder and ddo are both based around Dungeon and dragons and pwi wasnt may pose abit of a block, it shouldnt. and DDO has the rights to forgotten realms (which has lycanthropes (which can be ANY animal)) so its possible they could make a lycanthrope race and have several different types without being blamed for overstepping their rights.

    edit: Corrections: Foxwoman was in Monster Manual II (1983), Lycanthrope subtypes are throughout 3.5, with some variants in forgotten realms and eberron, they were actually in races of Faerûn which is for the forgotten realms.
    Last edited by Violith; 09-22-2013 at 02:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stitch_evil_koala View Post
    Before you anti-furries flame this thread, just read it first please.

    ....

    Almost posts original reaction, but reads the OP as requested.

    Opinion fails to be swayed.


    Now don't take me wrong. I'm not anti-furry, I can be just as kinky as the next guy. But they just really really don't have any place here.


    so, /no.

    /no, /no, /no.

    /Prepares next shipment of plat to the Kobolds-as-a-Player-Race Coalition.
    CEO - Cupcake's Muskateers, Thelanis
    DDO Freebies ____ Monster Manual


  8. #8

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    Obviously no one wants this race because of one thing or another. My apologies for trying.

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    I wouldn't imagine the concept of a kitsune would be copyrighted, as it is a mythological beasty. If people can copyright things from myth and legend, then someone really ought to copyright dragons and demand payment from everything that includes them. Now, if DDO should take the idea on seriously, the copyright issues would be if it is similar to Pathfinder's version.

    That being said and all, I don't really see this idea coming through. There are plenty of races that are already established and part of the game world that players already want to see. Gnome is one of the core races in the Player's Handbook, and the only one not represented in DDO. In Eberron itself, there are Shifters (People with a diluted partial lycanthropic bloodling), Changelings (descendants from dopplegangers), and Kalashtar (Psychic-inclined people) which are core races that people could normally play in the setting. Kobolds, although traditionally adversaries, have become quite popular and some players want to play them. Aasimar (people with a diluted partial angelic bloodline) and Tiefling (people with a diluted partial demonic bloodline), while not core races for 3.5, are something that people have clamored for as well.

    These are all much more likely candidates to be a next race, and then there are several other races that could possibly be next - the inclusion of goblins themselves, hobgoblins, full-blooded orcs, bugbears, various subspecies of elf or dwarf, lizardman, etc. And then there's more exotic fare after that, much more established.

    With all of those canon races as possibilities that are not yet explored, the inclusion of a new race that has nothing to do with the setting seems nigh impossible. I think the closest thing you'd get to your suggestion would be to see the Shifters incorporated.
    Anything can be explained by drunken wizards.

    "Hey! I got a piece of the +1 Butter Knife of Victory! Ah-oh, wait, wait. It's just a crummy, normal +1 dagger of ghostbane..."

  10. #10
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    I have no prob with Kitsune but it IS a Pathfinder race so to avoid any possible (if unlikely) legal issues I'd say go with Hengeyokai...their shapeshifters than can shift from Human <-> Hybrid <-> Animal and of course one of those could be a Fox...thus Kitsune whilst using a race that WOTC has a copyright for.

    @Everyone Else: Your welcome to your own opinion but you have no right to be jerks about it so knock it off.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 09-22-2013 at 09:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #11
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    I believe this is effectively beating on a dead horse, but...

    Turbine has been pretty lax on adding new important content, such as new classes or races. So far, the only new content of that type since the beginning has been the Favored Soul, the Monk, the Artificer and the Druid (for classes), the Half-Elf and the Half-Orc (for races; you may argue the Sun Elf and the Shadar-Kai are new races). As you can see, while the classes in the PHB and the ECS are complete, the races haven't been touched so far.

    Going by order of precedence, the first race that should be dealt with is the Gnome, because otherwise you can't complete the Player's Handbook. Afterwards, the next classes come from either Eberron or the Forgotten Realms (should have been Eberron, but after considering the Shadar-Kai...) Thus, that means, as other posters mention, that the next race after the Gnomes are either the Shifters, the Kalashtar, the Changelings, the Planetouched or the Genasi. That's the list of races that have precedence over anything else.

    Attempting to add a new race that isn't in ANY of the Monster Manuals or Campaign Settings definitely is out of the question. The two closest things to a kitsune would be a skin for the Shifter, or the Hengeyokai; the former is easier to achieve than the latter, if only because it's higher in the order of preference. Thus, the reason why attempting to introduce anything other than those races I mentioned (except the Hengeyokai, because that belongs to a campaign setting outside from Eberron or Faerun, unless they justify the Ninja class and the Hengeyokai as part of a Kara-Tur expansion pack for the game) will be met with some disdain. Considering that the developers are eschewing the idea of adding new races or classes for "Iconic Heroes" (which are easier to do, as they're essentially pre-made builds of races and classes with some special additions), adding new racial or class-based content is already difficult; seeing a new race or class aside from those that should take precedence would be kinda insulting.

    Heck, I find seeing Shadar-Kai (which isn't even 3.5 content) highly insulting, because it took the spot a Gnome or Shifter should have had (and considering that they already solved the problem of "shapeshifting", there's absolutely no reason why NOT to have Shifters in-game). So yeah; don't expect many "anti-furries" here, because if people are willing to accept Shifters, prejudice is out of the question. Expect a lot of angry people because we don't see new meaningful content, and worse: no meaningful F2P content (could it kill for once to have something else other than Drow?)

  12. #12

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    Finally some constructive criticism. Thank you.
    Not to mention some good insight. Like I've said I'm not a hardcore player. I don't have all this background stuff known. Actually, I am hoping the shifters come out fairly soon. (A year or so). Though I'm not sure if it would follow 4e because its either longtooth or razorclaw (?) That gets regeneration.

    Again thank you for answering in a better way instead of flaming.

  13. #13
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    For one there are several races that should be in first and there have been several polls on what races people want and I don't think Kitsune even made the top 100. Races we should first for sure before Kitsune.

    1. Gnome(3.x and key Eberron race)
    2. Shifters
    3. Kalshantar(ya ya spelling )
    4. Changeling
    5. Kobolds
    6. Goblins
    7. + to many to list.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  14. #14
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    For all those saying that Kitsune is NOT a D&D Race....There's always the Lupin {TSR 2501 MC Mystara Appendix}.

    Lupins are canine humanoids who, despite looking much like werewolves, despise these true lycanthropes. (Some lupins hate
    Werewolves so much they actively hunt them down.) Despite their fearsome appearance Lupins generally act friendly to humans and demihumans.


    BUT:

    Even though I'd love to see Lupin added as a Playable Race in DDO I have to say that these should come first:

    1) Kobolds
    2) Kobolds
    3) KOBOLDS!
    4) Gnomes {The Little People Pack with KOBOLDS!!!}
    5) Hobgoblins
    6) Gnolls {Possibly fit Lupin in here in a Double Mutt Pack}

    Also not forgetting the ONE D&D Class {not kit or prestige} that is still missing from DDO - Psionicists! {2nd Ed Psionics Handbook and Will & the Way would in my view be a superb starter point for Turbine to use - The Telepathic Mind to Mind Combat however was terrible in those books and would need a complete overhaul.}

    Oh and Yark, Yark, Dizafrabadoo...Did I mention KOBOLDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

  15. #15
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    For one there are several races that should be in first and there have been several polls on what races people want and I don't think Kitsune even made the top 100. Races we should first for sure before Kitsune.

    1. Gnome(3.x and key Eberron race)
    2. Shifters
    3. Kalshantar(ya ya spelling )
    4. Changeling
    5. Kobolds
    6. Goblins
    7. + to many to list.
    Strange, and there I thought most people here think Dragonborn should be added first.

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